Copborg

Mitchellangelo

This is another project for my portfolio. This is a cyborg police officer in the futuristic Mariner City. He was working a dangerous case inside a building with a gas leak, leading to an explosion. The explosion cost him his left arm and most of the left side of his face.

He received a new cybernetic weapon for an arm that hooks up to his brain, as well as a built in jet pack. Now he doesn't even need a car to patrol the city.

The overall body is made as well as all of his robotic parts. He is going to have clothes, and I will add details on where the metal pieces meet his flesh.

For now, any feedback you can give me would be awesome. Especially any anatomical feedback. Keep in mind though that he will be wearing jeans and a vest.


(Posting images through IMG)

Mitchellangelo

Brian "Panda" Choi

Do you have concept art for this, or are you creating the elements as you go along?

Mitchellangelo

I drew this one out before I started modeling. Here is the concept sketch:

oobersli

he looks so happy

Brian "Panda" Choi

I'm going to be honest, I think you'd be better served by a better concept. Right now, in terms of design, I am really not feeling this. It feels like really bad design for a B-Movie 80s Sci Fi show, or like a knock-of Robocop from a swapmeet. I can see maybe you're being influeced by ideas like Cyborg (DC Comics) and Robocop, but it's not visually translating well as one, cohesive idea.

You may technically learn more from creating this character, but really bad design cannot save any character, even if it's been sculpted, modeled, and textured to a T. Good concepts drive good characters models, not the other way around.

I really encourage you to find something similar to your original idea, but that's been done by another artist so you have a really awesome looking character in the end.

Mitchellangelo

So do you recommend I find a similar artists character, redo my concept drawing, and loosely base it on whatever character I find?

Brian "Panda" Choi

I recommend finding another persons's concept art.

BagelHero

Edit: Ninja'd lol

Not to put words in Brian's mouth, but I think he's suggesting you do someone else's good, finished design and concept and try to match it as best you can. Right now, your design sense is really lacking (sorry to be blunt). You should be focusing on how to accurately sculpt anatomy before you try to create and finish your own concepts.

Mitchellangelo

I guess I see what you mean BagelHero. I will definitely search for someone else's artwork on a similar character, but obviously I'm not going to copy the design completely.

In the meantime though, is there anything I can do with the model?

Brian "Panda" Choi

It's okay to copy someone's design completely. That's probably a big chunk of what game 3D artists do most of the time if they're working from existing concept art. Just credit the original artist if it's only for portfolio purposes.

Put the current model into storage if you're going to move-on. If you need to get stuff from it again, extract as necessary.

skyline5gtr

I would start with some anatomy practice first before moving to a full fledged character. Get the body right then move to all the gizmos

Maxilator

You have done something that seems quite common for people in the beginning, which is going into high poly too fast, I mainly mean the body, it seems a bit rushed to get into detailing before the basic proportions have come into place. It's a mistake that I did myself for quite a while and probably to some extent still do, if the proportions of the character are of the whole character looks weird. I like to imagine it like a building, where the proportions act like the foundation, if the foundation is crooked and weird, everything on top of it also looks off.

Mitchellangelo

Brian: Really? I was a little worried about copyright infringement, but yes I guess as long as I credit the original designer somehow. I didn't know game artists often do that.

Skyline5gtr: Of course, I thought the body was overall done and I'm ready to add any extra details.

Maxilator: That's a good illustration. Can you name any specific anatomical parts that need fixing?

Brian "Panda" Choi

It's not required, but good form, to just send an email or some sort of communication to ask for formal permission. I'd imagine most artists would be ok with saying yes to portfolio-only work from their stuff.

Gungriffon Geona

I actually weirdly like this? I am really curious as to what you'd do with the rest of it considering you've managed to get this far and flesh out even the crude concept to seem sorta fun. I mean yeah, it's a bit childish looking, but I actually... really enjoy the optimism and childlike FUN this has to it. I say to keep going and finish it, then move on to what the others are saying.

Mitchellangelo

That's true Brian. I guess portfolio work is one thing but using their stuff in a film is another.

Thank you Gungriffon Giona. I'm glad you like this piece. I know the concept drawing isn't the best but I hope to make this a fun piece.

Mitchellangelo

A man in uniform now has a whole new meaning. I took the same approach I did with Etta and put him in his uniform. The head, and the rest of the body going to be seen, will be cleaned and tweeked next, but I thought I'd go ahead and put his gear on. I like the vest, but what do you think of the shoes and the pants?...

jhoythottle

I think it's cool you want to do your own character but trust me, you're better off finding someone else's concept art and following that instead. There's no rhyme or reason to any of these design choices. In the industry, 3D artists have one job: making 3D art. Concept artists have one job too: making concept art. In a studio setting, a 3D artist will always be working from a strong concept piece. In rare cases and small studios, the 3D artist may also be trained well enough to produce strong 2D examples, but why do that when there's an abundance of untapped concept art out there? Don't worry about copyright infringement. As long as you aren't selling the final product the artist cannot be upset. If you still feel weird about it, send them an email. If you need help searching for good concept art, ask and you shall receive.

Mitchellangelo

Yeah I guess I see what you mean. Like I said, I like the vest for sure, but it's just the pants and shoes I'm not too sure about. I guess I'll Google image some more concept art. The reason I tried to add designs to the pants was because they looked kind of flat in comparison to the vest. Same with the shoes.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Regarding pants, those don't read like pants, they're reading like tights. If you notice how jeans, khakis, dress pants tend to fit on male boies, they don't hug the sins that much. There might be slight hugging around the thighs, but they tend not to conform the leg all the way down.

If pants was your intention, flare out the bottom half of the pant legs. If it was tights, keep it as is.

Anyways, it's a decent start for someone getting their feet wet with this! But I really encourage you to find a stronger concept and work from there.

If you want to get your concept abilities critiqued and improved by the community, you can totally share it with us in these threads and we can provide feedback about what's working and what's not.

Biomag

Copyright info: Making copies from legit sources for personal usage are allowed. Those copies can also be done using different media - for example turing 2d-art into 3d interpretations.

The key point is for 'personal usage'. Not distributional purposes. Distribution is considered as 'making available to others' (doesn't need to be commercial!). So in fact its not unproblematical to use someone elses concept if you share the results on the internet. But that is the by 'the book truth'. In 99% of the cases it is not an issue because most artist are willing to share their concepts and there is no commercial component involved that would harm or benift anyone. Also - like with any legal case - if the right owner doesn't know about the infringement he can't/won't sue. There is also the point of lacking the financial reasoning of persuing the claim based on the place of jurisdiction, risks involved,...

The point is: In most cases you can use the concept from someone else (especially if mentioning & linking towards the original artist) without a clear consent, and if its for personal usage only. The save (and respectful) way is yet to ask the artist involved (I thank Brian Ching to this day for his consent that allowed me to use his concept for a tattoo I got).

Keep in mind this may vary based on what jurisdiction and law is to be applied in each individual case (though this should be the case for most western countries). And even if I have a degree for this stuff I am not taking any liability for this information


Regarding the C&C:
My biggest issue is that the whole character lacks a certain style dircetion to which you are heading - as others said, the concept isn't strong enough to communicate what your goal is. Are you trying to do a very stylized character? Or are you trying to go towards realism? In any way there is a lot that could (should) be done, but its hard to say, as there is no clear goal that you set yourself. Right now it reminds me too much of this -> http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/community-sitcom/images/4/4c/5X7_Abed_sprays_Hickey%27s_desk.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140301205324

I agree with previous comments - back to basics getting the proportions straight and finding the style that you want to achieve. With all due respect - you drawing doesn't cut the needs for a strong 3D result. Its not a weakness to look for someone elses concept or if you are really not willing then spend more time on the concept itself to bring it to a level that will actually benefit your project.

Mitchellangelo

Actually Brian, I think that was really my intention was kind of tight pants. My original goal was to so as much anatomy as possible. The vest already covers a monstrous portion of it.

Biomag, no way. Come on it doesn't look nearly as bad as the character in that image. I guess I was going for a little bit of both: stylized and realistic. And I've redone the concept drawing but I feel like this time I have to work backwards.

Mitchellangelo

This is work I did yesterday on the uniform. I found this reference online and I really liked this design. I thought as far as uniform goes it's the closest thing to my design. I think these pants and shoes definitely fit a little better.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Good reference.

Dont try to salvage it. Right now your base T-pose, which is not a T or A pose, isn't being hidden by new clothing designs. Lack of butt, a head that is scrunched backwards and not leaning out like it would in real life, a facial expresison that is not neutral and rig friendly, a silhouette that can be much stronger, a unified shape language, bigger feet, etc.

Reconcept it out on paper, and remake this from the ground up. Or just choose someone else's design. Have a better foundation, better face anatomy, a much better gesture. New clothes or weapons or more greebles will not save this. Really awesome looking textures will not save this.

Silhouette and a good foundation will:

http://www.ctrlpaint.com/videos/thumbnail-iteration

Mitchellangelo

I definitely wanted this character to be smiling with his teeth like he's enjoying his job. Yeah you're probably right, maybe it's best if I just scrap this and start over. Maybe going from the ground up is a better idea. I'll look for someone else's artwork and go from there.

Is this what you recommend though, starting from scratch instead of salvaging it?

Brian "Panda" Choi

Start from scratch. You can keep your police cyborg idea, just find something that is visually designed better.

Mitchellangelo

I'll do that. I'll look more at that article you sent me about character concept tips. I really do want my website to have strong pieces on it, so if I have start over on this character I will.

Gungriffon Geona

by all means keep the weird mechanical arm, but maybe tighten the joints on it a bit more so it's not so spread out.

Mitchellangelo

Tighten the joints on the mechanical arm? But I thought that just added to the discursive design. I thought it was adding onto the problem of how there's no rhythm to the design. Actually, maybe I could scrap the jet pack.

Gungriffon Geona

what I mean is, make grooves into them to allow better range of motion, then pull the sections in closer to the joints. something like that.

Trawler

I think what Brian is saying is right . I think you need to start over and really research into what you want to do - if your not a good concept artist thats fine! thats a totally different beast to handle You just want to learn 3D art so do that.

Gather several reference sheet's up - google ideas of clothing, mechanical pieces, anatomy etc.

Then start slow - get the basic full anatomy down because if this looks good then the rest of your work will improve.

Mitchellangelo

I see what you mean Trawler. Yeah it might be best to start over. Sorry Gungriffon. There has to be some kind of cyborg character concept that's similar to this one. Actually, do you know of any links or places I can find ideas like that? (Besides Google images).

Brian "Panda" Choi

https://artstation.com/

The classic western concept

https://www.google.com/search?q=Robocop&rlz=1C1GIWA_enUS570US570&espv=2&biw=1786&bih=974&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=j0QxVeiOLY72oASgl4C4Cg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=Robocop+concept+art

Mitchellangelo

Hmm, I may be able to use some of RoboCop's features for the new concept. I still want to try to create a cyborg police officer, but I'm sure I can come up with ideas from RoboCop's armor.

Brian "Panda" Choi

If you want mroe cyborgs, Deus Ex Human Revolution has a strong bevy of concepts to work from:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Deus+Ex+Human+Revolution+Concept+Art&rlz=1C1GIWA_enUS570US570&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=911&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=jKcxVYXNDY-4ogTGhYHYDw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=deus+ex+human+revolution+character+concept+art&revid=1086000493

N-gon

I think you need to do some real practice with anatomy and gesture study. if the body is wrong the rest of the assets on it will look wrong. you character feels very unnatural standing, he's center of gravity is off. and your proportions need some work as well
Check out Grassetti anatomy video. there very great for getting this stuff down.
https://gumroad.com/grassetti

Mitchellangelo

Thanks Brian. I'll check out that link when I get a chance. It'll be nice to have more cyborg concepts, than robotic suits.

Thanks for those pointers N-Gon. I'll work on those too.

Dan Powell

Do some anatomy studies IMO before you try to take on full characters. Once you've got the forms of anatomy nailed down you'll find making armour/clothing/accessories a lot easier because you'll understand how stuff is designed to fit the curves of the human body.

Just look at life drawing pictures online and maybe try to sculpt from them as best you can.

I think others have given you strong advice on the concept, etc.

Mitchellangelo

Well said Dan. It's always best to nail the overall shape of the body first. And yes they've been giving me very strong advice.

Mitchellangelo

So I've been looking at more references and concept art, and I have an overall new concept drawn out for the CopBorg.



Here is the character I have been looking at. This is perfect too because the concept art is all right there. I'm a little worried about that arm but we get there when we get there.


I want to make sure this is well and good on paper before it goes into the 3D space again.

Brian "Panda" Choi

You've borrowed so much from the Adam Jensen concept art, what's preventing you from just outright making fan art of the Deus Ex character?

As far as I can tell, you're drawing's only real siginificant difference is that it's a bald male with a Dragonball-esque Scouter eye attachment, and his right arm is natural-looking. I think you can keep the head design (minus the smiling since that doesn't work well for a neutral T-pose and rigging later) and the arm, but you've got better proportions and designed concepts in the Murray concept art.

Mitchellangelo

Thanks. I guess I could just make this character, but I still would like to have the cop incorporation into this character. Is this still possible?

The eye piece is actually based on RoboCop (ironically). And I thought about having the same person in this new suit.

Brian "Panda" Choi

You can totally still keep the character a polce man even with the changes.

How you make that guy a cop is based less on what you wrote on the paper, and is more based on what you visually communicate. What you drew, it does not read police man, it reads cyborg. What makes a police man a police man varies. Could be a weird hat, a checkered strip on a hat as some British constables have, or perhaps a badge that many American police men carry on television shows.

Visually communicate this, don't just think it. We're not writers, we're visual artists. Our words are colors. If we fail to visually communicate, than we need to step up our visual design game. There's a reason why video games are often obtuse about faction designs. In real life, if army 2 had red emblazoned across it's shoulder like cherry pie, they'd be destroyed in firefights.

This is good visual design that separates every other possible chaaracter role from this police one. Cornered hats, yellow vests. Notice I am not mentioning here any words they have written on their bodies.





Below is bad visual design for police. They read less like peacekeepers, more like a military force. Literally the only thing that says they're police is that "Police" sticker slapped on top of their bulletproof vest. The rest of the character design says "military."



If you going to have the same person in the suit, reference the actual actor.

https://www.google.com/search?q=peter+weller&rlz=1C1GIWA_enUS570US570&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=955&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDQy4HsxCnfq6-gZGlZUaxEphpUmJpZqkllJ1spZ-WmZMLJqySE4tLHjHacQu8_HFPWMp00pqT1xj1ubAoEpLkYnPNK8ksqRTi5-KVQhiuwcDDFPlj7jYTPY2P0kfUTJxuTLh4YIE5ACd6egeKAAAA&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ASw4VbymFYbmoATzsYEQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

I encourage you, once again, to just remake the Adam Jensen character, swap out the head and add your head equipment, and call it Deus Ex fan art. You'll learn a lot, especially regarding nailing existing concept art, and you'll be better prepared for other creative endeavors later. You've got good taste, which is awesome! Adam Jensen's design is slick, but doesn't hurt to emulate that for portfolio work.

Mitchellangelo

I think I might do that then. You said so yourself, I've already borrowed most of the artwork, might as well go all the way.

I used Samuel L. Jackson for reference on the last one. Do you have any suggestions for an actor resembling Adam Jensen?

Brian "Panda" Choi

Use his voice actor. They share very similar features.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1340118/

Mitchellangelo

That'll work. Okay, I'll get started on this new design and hopefully beginning next week or even this weekend, I'll have some work to post. I may start a new thread though...

Mitchellangelo

By the way, where did you get those front and profile images of Lucy Lui? I couldn't for the life of me find a profile picture.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Google.

Mitchellangelo

Of course. Okay. I'll look one more time for one of Elias T.