Student needs critique! [WIP]

ms_green

Hey Guys!

I am a Digital Art student at Games Academy Berlin and did this Lady for a project in school. She was supposed to be a mother who killed her daughter and should on one hand scare the player and look creepy/disgusting, but on the other hand look like a tidy ordinary 30s housewife. Somehow like Marjorie Dursley from the Harry Potter movies. Anyway I would like to improve her from HP on and hopefully use her as a portfolio piece, since I am not satisfied with her. I would really love you guys to give me feedback, anatomical wise, concerning the design etc., for this is my very first 3D character. If you need different angles or want to see her in her dress more, just tell me But please, do not hold back your critque.

Thank you!

TheodorUrhed

She is absolutely horrifying o_o
You should have second look at some references for the knees as there should be more of a michelin effect there, depending of course how far you really want to go with the fat.
I would go for either really obese http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121005133306/uncyclopedia/images/4/48/Fat_woman_in_bikinis.jpg (left) or just fat http://blogs.babycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/abefore121206_191x350.jpg

ms_green

Thank you, that's what i wanted to achieve
Yes, the knees need to be done again, you're right. Concerning the fat I think I will go for the left reference.

wirrexx

Can i just mention that this character was Sarahs first 3D modell from start to finish, using the HP>LP workflow.

I Really enjoy the face!

ms_green

So over the last days I went a little more extreme when it comes to hanging fat. Especially the boobs I teared down a lot. Just to make her look more extreme. I also tried to add the knees more volume and give that michelin effect TheodorUrhed was talking about. Concerning the face I tried to make it look more realistic, especially around the corners of the mouth. That part was very hard for me. In the next steps I think of making her look like she got bedsores and give her a lot of cellulitis and parts of rotten flesh. In the end I want to dress her up in dessous and give her a slight seductive pose. What do you think about the face? Does it look very unnatural?

PandagonStudios

Looks great keep it up

ms_green

Thank you!

wirrexx

nooo onto modelling the details, like freckles, mols and stuff!

Filcomet

I gonna have nightmares! she reminds me Isaac's mom, from The binding of Isaac. I think you should sculpt more details like stretchmarks, wrinkles or varicose veins in their body, that will make her gross.

ms_green

Thanks for the feedback, Filcomet!
Yeah I really look forward making all the little nasty details. Yesterday I started with the dessous and how they cut in her flesh, but I think it's smarter to do those details first. I also thought of all the stuff you just listed. Cellulitis, bedsores, fungal attack where fat is lying upon each other, etc. Additionally I have the woman from Shining in mind, the one coming out of the bath tub. http://www.culturesnob.net/assets/images/entries/2008/04/shining07.jpg

apllana

This is disgustingly fun. I would like to point out however that if you're going for realism, you might want to make her mouth slightly smaller. The new proportions will give more room for the cheeks and push the face in the desired direction. Here is a reference to see what I mean.
https://tolaughisdivine.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/funny-very-very-fat-woman_3.jpg
Also, looking at her teeth, the madible seems to descend without rotating around the temporomandibular joint. Subbed!

ncav

This is cool dude! I think it'll really creepy by the time you're done with it. You must have had fun looking at reference for this one haha.

On a critique side maybe some really long finger nails then you can do like some chipped nail polish ect? I dunno, I tend to find those long fake finger nails kind of creepy/trashy.

Kamezis

ms_green

Thank you all for your feedback! I am so happy about it, really It helps a lot! Apllana: Because you're suggesting making the mouth smaller, I definetely agree that it would look more realistic and I want to go the realistic way. But I also want to keep the kind of joker-face like in the very first pictures. But I will definetely try it out, even because I'm pretty unsure about the mouth. And maybe it looks better! What you said about the angle of the teeth and the mandible is totally right. I haven't noticed it before, thanks! To Ncav: Yeah, looking up all those references makes you feel muuuch better in your own body. And it definetely makes you a man.:D And don't worry, she already has long fingernails. Next time when I go into detail I will also show a close-up of her hands And Kamezis...I take this in a positive way

ms_green

Hey everyone!
I started with the details on the right leg for now. You can see a big bedsore, cellulitis and some varicose veins. Making the cellulitis look kind of acceptable was the hardest part for me. Maybe you have some tips how to do it? Or how you'd do it? As you can see in the close-up of the bedsore, my resolution is too low for sculpting such details. Now ZRemesher and Dynamesh will always take away some of your detail, right? And they are meant to be used in the beginning of sculpting, aren't they? So, as I can not divide the model once more because ZBrush is then slowing down totally, is there a way to get more topology for detail? Or is that something you have to plan right in the beginning and now I have to make the best out of it? I wanted to ask you first before continuing. Thank you!

DataDragon

I want to make beautiful art like this, do you have any tips?

GrungyStudios

Oh this is great. That mug is scary looking. Im not a proportion master but it looks like you tackled modeling obesity well. And those cuts you started sculpting are coming along well too. As far as her mouth, i think it looks good as big as it is, gives it a bit of exaggeration. Anyways, looking forward to seeing this further.

root

This is viscerally unpleasant to look at, so I mean. Good job?

PitelinM

You seem to have some kind of intestines under the skin, but on this place there should be nothing but muscles, or in her case, fat. Good job, she is terrific.

ms_green

Thank you all for commenting!
PitelinM, yeah that's the problem. Because the resolution is that low, I can't carv in muscle fibres. Although you're right, there probably is only fat that deep. If you mean that wobbly part, that's some pus/ fat. You can see it here:
http://www.rosenfeldinjurylawyers.com/wp-content/themes/rosenfeld/images/practice-areas/stages-of-pressure-sores.jpg
To DataDragon...there are people on here who are experienced and true masters in what they do, they for sure can give you way better advices. I can only say, that it helps me a lot wehn I look how things work when I want to model them. What happens there, when the skin is getting cellulitis for example. And stop using strg+z all the time. If you did something on your model, and it doesn't look good, remember that there were a purpose, why you did that stroke or whatever. Try to learn from those "mistakes" you make insead of undoing them. I have to train that myself.

wirrexx

I'm soooo proud of you!

skodone

if you want to go higher in res you have to divide the mesh into more subtools
divided in subtools zBrush can handle far more polys

also you can use HD Geometry or use polypaint on zremeshing to add more density to the mesh at the detail areas (red = more density \ blue = less mesh density) and check "use polypaint" before remeshing

ms_green

Thanks for the help, Skodone! It looks like that's gonna help me out. I've found a good tutorial I think and will try it out

ms_green

Hey guys!
I am very sorry for not uploading anything for so long. What do you think about her state right now? For me she looks a little blank at the upper part of her body, but sadly there no cellulitis occurs. I really want to get finished with the HP now. Tomorrow I will maybe dress her in some underwear and then start with Lp, texturing etc. One question: Would you suggest polypainting or texturing the UV in photoshop? I personally like polypainting, but I am not experienced enough in texturing so that I know the big advantages and disadvantages of polypainting vs. traditional 2D texturing. Maybe you wanna share your experience with me, it would help a lot

Cheers!

Brian "Panda" Choi

Is she going to be naked in the end or is the dress still there?


For texturing, do both, as long as it works for you. You'll find yourself favoring one over the other for certain tasks perhaps.

I take after ysalex's pipeline for skin texturing since ZBrush's polypainting FEELS easier to me, but all my final texturing completes in Photoshop. I can assign groups and masks to very specific elements like Dirt or Edge Wear, so if I need more or less Dirt, all I have to do is affect that Group only, not touching other areas like the Skin Base, for exmaple.

Below is an example of what my layers look like for one character. I take a lot of reference for the setup from Quixel's dDo output.

ms_green

Thanks for putting up that example, Brian! She won't wear a dress again, but I think of her wearing some underwear maybe. Or she stays naked..I still need to decide. I agree with using both, Polypaint and Photoshop. When I textured her for the schoolproject, I also used both ways. Starting with the polypainting and then doing the last steps in Photoshop, or what I couldn't do in polypainting. Let's assume she's wearing underwear, or just cloth. Would you put everything on one UV if possible or split it up between character itself and assets (like cloth e.g.)

Brian "Panda" Choi

If she's an important character, do a head and body. If she is an non-hero character, one sheet.

Your decision regarding that depends on how much memory you want to have to load in during the operation of a game.

nickcomeau

She's so gross >.< but it's great I think the reason it's looking bare is cause you don't have any skin pore details. Adding things like zits or warts or bubbly type things and large pores all over could help a lot. Also the stretch marks could be more obvious and inconsistent I think. It's comin along pretty well though!

ms_green

Thanks you two Brian I will keep that in mind when creating game characters. For now she's just supposed to be in my portfolio, I am in last semester and need to apply for a job this year. That's why I need to get finished. Nickcomeau, I added skin details now and dressed her half up in underwear, the rest I will upload tomorrow. I'm curious if you guys like her better naked or with underwear on

pangarang

I honestly can't look at this long enough to give a solid critique. I think that means you've done a good job so far, lol.

ms_green

Hey you all,
as I said I tried some underwear on her. The bra I really like, but I am very very unsure about the panties. They justdon't look like panties. I'd make it some cotton underwear, those beige ones who old people wear and put all kinds of dirt and sweatmarks on it. Originally I wanted to dress her up in erotic lace underwear, but that'd be too much work for the little time I have. What I will try is using an alpha mask to fake some kind of this: http://www.hirsefelt.de/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/m/amourette_max_2.jpg But what do you guys think? Do you like the underwear or do you prefer her naked? Would you go for the lace or for the cotton? You see, I am unsure myself

Thank you all

skodone

i think the panties should be acutally smaller than the body fat since they compress and the fat hangs over them, they should really cut into the silhouette
i also would increase the skin folds aournd the kneecap

wirrexx

i Love it!

nickcomeau

I love this thread and hate to look at it all at the same time. So nasty XD But the little bits of clothes are a great start!

ms_green

Thanks nickcomeau, couldn't wish for a better feedback skodone: you're right about the kneecaps, and with the panties I could try around, but because I'm running out of time I already started with polypainting. But I appreciate your feedback, thank you Wirrexx

ms_green

Hey there!
Geez..2 month since my last post..School started again and with it a new project I am working on right now. I am very sorry for letting so much time pass since my last upload. I really need to learn how I can plan my working time, so that I have enough time for my personal work and the project work for school. For the school project we're working in teams and as soon as I work for my own I feel bad for them. But I found some time in between to continue with her and now finished the polypainting. I will go on doing the lowpoly and then, after baking, improve the polypaint with Photoshop, bring in some more colour and nice phototextures. The hair and shoes I haven't touched yet, because in the process of polypainting for me it always gets kind of blurry. That's why I'm going to do it in Photoshop.

I hope some of you still reply Have a nice day!

Earthyn

Looking good! Every time I give these images a look over I find something else equally disturbing haha

skodone

eww!

ms_green

Thanks!

ms_green

Hello there,

Finally I guess I can say, that there is no urgent need to touch this model again, except for rendering, which is the last thing to do. I really struggeled posing her, the mesh doesn't allow everything I wished for, but I think it's okay. Do you find anything that needs to be changed? And: Any tips for rendering? Because this will be my first time setting everything up for a cool render. Unfortunately it needs to be done in ZBrush because of HD Geometry. After that the next portfolio Character is ready to go, for which I am going to open a thread, too. And when then there's still time, do a little environment surrounding for both of them, at least a ground. Thank you all for the feedback and all the tips you gave (and hopefully will give) me!!



Cheers!

ms_green

Though this thread has been quiet, I post the final renderings of her. As an completion

Ramborf70

looks great brilliant work love it