Finding freelance and charging the right rates is hard.
polycounter lvl 9
I might be leaning into a more controversial topic here but here it goes. I know I'm average at game art. I know that I should be charging less than what's been linked in the wiki.
I don't understand how people say "don't undercharge because it brings the rest of the industry down". Undercharging is a very common thing in this industry. Just look at freelancer.com people are working for slave labor rates. A lot of them are from third world countries. I suppose its easy to understand since the cost of living is lower there.
I'm living in Australia. The problem I have is that I can't even get any damn freelance and when I get a bite it's usually "sorry you are charging too much". I quote $12 USD per hour. I used to quote $15 USD per hour but now 12 USD an hour is even too much for people. I know my art skills are average, but why can't I even find freelance work that pays average wages?
Right now I know I'm in the valley of suck. It confuses me, do I have to become a very very good artist just so I can actually get work? An artist as skilled as that would easily be able to charge the freelance rates specified in the wiki. So I'm confused, I'm lesser skilled but I can't even charge decent rates according to my skill level.
If you guys have any input to the struggling artists out there, we would really appreciate it! Cheers
I don't understand how people say "don't undercharge because it brings the rest of the industry down". Undercharging is a very common thing in this industry. Just look at freelancer.com people are working for slave labor rates. A lot of them are from third world countries. I suppose its easy to understand since the cost of living is lower there.
I'm living in Australia. The problem I have is that I can't even get any damn freelance and when I get a bite it's usually "sorry you are charging too much". I quote $12 USD per hour. I used to quote $15 USD per hour but now 12 USD an hour is even too much for people. I know my art skills are average, but why can't I even find freelance work that pays average wages?
Right now I know I'm in the valley of suck. It confuses me, do I have to become a very very good artist just so I can actually get work? An artist as skilled as that would easily be able to charge the freelance rates specified in the wiki. So I'm confused, I'm lesser skilled but I can't even charge decent rates according to my skill level.
If you guys have any input to the struggling artists out there, we would really appreciate it! Cheers
Replies
To be more helpful: Maybe you are looking in the wrong places? A huge marketplace where people underbid each other is certainly not the place I'd take even as a point of reference.
And how fast are you? A low rate means nothing if you need considerably longer than other people to do the job.
I cant really give you any tips on how to score the good clients but if 12$ is too much then you really dont want to be working for those people, they'l drain you for everything you're worth then ask for more.
You also need to consider the quality that those slave labor rates are turning out, its by and large total shit, but the average person seeking a model here and there doesnt see it.
The best i can say is to stick at it and continue to expand your skillset, make yourself more marketable by showing that you're not just going to provide a mesh and call it a day. Entice would be clients with the prospect of an entire package. Ex: client wants a gun modeled and textured. Tell them you can do that, and on top of that you can rig, animate and bring it into their engine of choice.
This shows them that you can take an idea from start to finish and they dont have to worry about finding and budgeting different people for a single asset.
Good luck, its hard out there sometimes!
"I know I'm average at game art. I know that I should be charging less than what's been linked in the wiki."
That is your biggest problem. If you can't convince yourself of your value you are going to have a hard time convincing others. I looked at your work and it's definitely worth more than $15 an hour.
As a freelancer you have to pay for software, health insurance, taxes, any costs associated with running your freelance business. 12$ is not only unreasonable, it's impossible. After you pay for all your costs you will be running in debt.
Maybe you can use free software...Maybe your country offers socialized medicine..but you still have to pay taxes and expenses like internet, hardware, The time it takes to do the foot work to find clients..and then there is just living expenses..rent, food, water, trash..etc...
When you undervalue yourself..you're not actually getting paid..your robbing Peter to Pay Paul..Cover your expenses.
Anyone who scoff's at a fair wage should be put on a big fat ignore list. There are plenty of Dev's that pay well, you just have to find them
A huge part of freelance work is networking. You have to do the leg work. You have to make contacts. Some people frown on cold contacts, but I've gotten plenty of jobs by contacting people with a nice cover letter, offering my services. It's also a never-ending hunt..always on the lookout for the next score, because that cushy 6 month contract that pays really well could turn to shit in the blink of an eye
If you think you suck, then use your time to improve. Working shitty freelance jobs is not going to make you any better...and a big truth about people who pay shit, is that they are usually ultra demanding, and try to squeeze you for a lot more than what they are paying for...
However, I've also freelanced for some really terrible rates. Sometimes you gotta pay the bills even if that's all you can pay for. The other thing is learning to balance two different gigs. It's not easy, but it's do able. 3 is insanity and the quality of work you're doing suffers (hard lessons I've learned) as well as your relationship with clients.
Final tip-look into other fields that need 3D art too. I've done a decent amount of work for Arch Viz too. Pays well and isn't usually super demanding (the work isn't hard, the hours might be?)
@Noren
I might be looking in the wrong places. So far I've only posted looking for work on the Unity forums and the polycount boards. So far most emails I've received have been from the Unity forums. In terms of how fast I am, I think I am at an average speed for now. Although the last couple of weeks I have really sped up my workflows and I definitely think I a twice as fast than a year ago. I've rebinded all my keys and added all the useful time saving scripts I can to max, I've also been working on the hard surface challenge and trying to get one of those done every 2 days. I did this piece in about 3 days and this one in a day. Am I working to slow?
@MikeF
I agree. I was getting paid more when I used to work in the deli in high school. I will try my best to expand my skillset this year I already have a few goals written down!
@AlecMoody
Mostly unity developers saying I charge too much. I even just recently had an email from someone seeing my polycount job advert saying that too. So it happens on polycount too! I did have a really good contract early 2014 where I was getting 15 USD an hour for a few months but obtaining that job was somehow a miracle. Knowing how skilled you are makes me feel a little better since you've said my work is worth more than I think. I suppose it comes down to finding the right clients.
@low odor
I understand what you mean. Like I said I used to work as a deli boy in my teens and I was getting paid way higher than these freelance jobs. I'm going to try my best to improve as an artist this year. I've already changed so many habits this year it has been far more productive than the the last 6 months of 2014.
@DireWolf
I think that may help and I may try it then just quoting the hourly amount. Sometimes people ask me how much things are per model or per project basis. It's challenging for me to estimate because I'm always worried if that client already knows someone that can do the work faster.
@Rurouni Strife
Thanks for the tips man. I'll take it into account.
There are about 4 thread titles with a lot of replies under the search 'networking' that I'm going to look through. I wonder if anyone has any tips on where to get started, what I should be looking to do and how I should do it? I suppose setting up a twitter account and joining the polycount groups would help to a degree!
About networking, easiest to start is to give your work as much exposure as possible. Polycount is great. CG Feedback is great. Art Station is great. Get your stuff on the front page of 3D total is great. Pretty much put your stuff EVERY WHERE that you know.
Comparing the price of buying canned assets, to custom assets made specifically for your game is silly (not suggesting that you are insinuating that, Juniez, just that it is ludicrous that devs would get that in their heads)
It's like complaining that the suit you just got tailor made is not the same price as the suit you bought at wal-mart
That said ,I wouldn't limit yourself. You should be able to find out in a few emails whether someone in serious about paying you.
Why don't you do something that pays $40 per hour or more?
For comparison - A barrista at starbucks in australia makes $17 USD a hour. A mcdonalds manager will make over $20 USD an hour.
I don't want to be too discouraging but it's probably not a good idea to be bidding less than minimum wage.
Once you graduate to higher level clients though it becomes much easier, quoting is quicker and less painful and easier to predict. Whereas you're haggling with guys for a week and trying to guess their budget and wondering who else is bidding and how much, the bigger clients will come to you and say, "are you available?" You say "yes I am and my rate is X". Unless your rate is crazy, they say "great, sign this, I'm emailing Y to get you started".
The shift happens when it's not you who needs the market, but the market who needs you. When you don't have a lot of experience and your work is maybe only decent quality, then it's you who needs the clients, so they are in a position of power. They can sit back and find 1000 people who are capable of your quality work, who are in better positions to quote less. But eventually your work becomes better to the point where companies need your help to hit a quality bar, and they come to you.
So just keep improving, take the low paying work if you need it, get better, find better clients, help better clients find you, and charge more.
Personally I'd rather invest more time in something like the art_test and shoot for a better quality, but that of course depends on the requirements of the job also.
The geometry distribution on the laser canon is a bit strange, in my opinion. (Maybe a smarter use of forms could have made the baking process a lot easier, too. E.g. the forms near the back which could be flat, but seem ever so slightly bent. Maybe it's an optical illusion, but in any case there is some unnecessary texture warping going on, too.
(Just a random observation, not necessarily an attempt to explain why you can't get better paying jobs.)
" We were sadly eliminated in the final 10 as our concept was not up to scratch. "
Looks a bit like finger pointing to me. Might be true, but you win as a team and you lose as a team. You made the final 10, that's something you can be proud of and I wouldn't introduce any negativity without need.