OTs-12

Bek
greentooth
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Bek greentooth
(It's not an AKS-74u, I swear)

ZyUxefm.png
YRAcsoY.png

And a close-up of the ironsight.

The above is the blockout; now I'm moving on to the highpoly. Some parts are already sub-d. There aren't many references for the OTs-12 but since it shares ~90% of its parts with the AKS-74u I've been using pictures of that for additional ref.

I diverged from the OTs-12 in a few areas: The iron sights for example are standard AKS-47u iron sights rather than the abomination that appears on the OTs-12; and I've also included a Stormwerkz weaver rail, which I might put a PK-06 on. I'm also considering including two types of ammunition for the magazine, SP-5 and BP 9x39 rounds.

My main concern will be texturing; I want to really push my simple shapes and base materials. I might also end up waiting for new software to arrive (qs 1.9/megascans/quixel gpu baker) and use this project to test those out on.

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  • 4Echo
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    4Echo polycounter lvl 3
    Glorious edge consistency!
  • Oniram
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    Oniram polycounter lvl 11
    Bek wrote: »
    My main concern will be texturing; I want to really push my simple shapes and base materials. I might also end up waiting for new software to arrive (qs 1.9/megascans/quixel gpu baker) and use this project to test those out on.

    no no no no no no no! dont rely on those things as a crutch. you dont need things like that to make your work look good.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    I don't think they're a crutch. I know I want to test them out; and I'll need a project to do so. But it depends on how long it takes. I have some simpler stuff that's baked but untextured I could use, so we'll see. At any rate; I'm not in any particular rush to finish this piece. I've heard good things about 3d coat's latest release for texture painting too, so I might try that against substance painter while I'm at it.

    I'm also curious as to how the GPU baker will handle AO vs modo. Any way to speed up or improve baking will be welcome.

    This is one of the references I have for materials and texturing:

    uVx3R8R.jpg


    I'll experiment with that kind of steel as well as the more typical black painted metal that you see on modern AK's.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Highpoly:

    Cgw6x6h.jpg

    9DtptWE.jpg

    HF49NK8.jpg


    This is my first time using the 'detailed blockout' or 'midpoly' workflow, and so far I have to say I'm a fan. Getting the highpoly done was faaast. But I won't get a complete sense of its differences until I move on to the lowpoly. I've already had a few pieces that I've had to tweak when doing the high, which means I have to go back and edit the midpoly with the same changes... but it's not too bad. You just need to plan more carefully.

    Still have some details to do; some stuff will be done in nDO (mostly text and symbols); I might also give the skeletonised stock a sculpting pass as it's got some welds on it and other little characteristic dints etc.
  • Kaine123
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    Kaine123 polycounter lvl 5
    I would push the feed lips of that magazine in a lot. Those cartridges would go flying out that magazine in real life.
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 10
    great work so far. maybe front grip looking a bit too smooth, not sure tbh.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Kaine123 wrote: »
    I would push the feed lips of that magazine in a lot. Those cartridges would go flying out that magazine in real life.
    Heh, good point. Fixed, thanks!
    igi wrote: »
    great work so far. maybe front grip looking a bit too smooth, not sure tbh.

    Yeah... I changed its proportions slightly; though I think the inset on the lower foregrip can be quite smooth. The older design with the insets on the upper part seems to have universally sharper edges on the lower indent; might just be something that varies over time / from manufacturer.

    Anyway, made some small changes, mainly adding details to the gas block.

    JXDvg8H.png
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    lowpoly (still a w.i.p) :

    rY1J6Sm.png
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Still mucking around with the lowpoly and unwrapping. I was wondering if, considering a first person view, it would be worthwhile to spend the extra geo on the magazine extrusions. So I did a quick test bake to find out. Ignore the jaggedness, that's because of a low bake res (didn't want to bake the whole mag at a high res; I wanted to see how it would look with roughly the right texel density) and because of 2 minute UV's.

    onVWC47.png

    While B certainly does look better, it comes at a significant cost. It also has a more obvious normal map border around the extrusion geo that the 8bit normal map doesn't completely cover. It probably wouldn't be noticeable when textured, but it will get worse as normal map res / mag texel density lowers.

    Since I'll probably be using a fairly high texture res for this (maybe 2048x4096) it might be worth using the extra geo; I'm not quite sure. The difference isn't huge, but it is noticeable.
  • Oniram
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    Oniram polycounter lvl 11
    if you dont have a tech artist screaming at you to reduce your geometry for performance reasons then dont worry about it. just make sure it looks good, thats all that matters. at the end of the day a difference of 1000 verts is nothing to worry over, and it makes a difference in terms of end results. Anyone can reduce geometry "efficiently," even computers.
  • Fridock
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    Fridock polycounter lvl 6
    What if you disconnect those Bumbs and make the floating geomerty? That would keep nice geo as you have it on the left and save you some tris
  • commador
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    commador polycounter lvl 11
    Fridock wrote: »
    What if you disconnect those Bumbs and make the floating geomerty? That would keep nice geo as you have it on the left and save you some tris

    This method is the best way I think. Unless there is a specific reason, you don't need to have completely contiguous geometry.
  • Kaine123
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    Kaine123 polycounter lvl 5
    It's not like the curves on those bumps need to have that many sides.
  • maxivz
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    maxivz polycounter lvl 8
    If you make them floaters and give it less sides you should be good to go, nice bake btw
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    The reason I didn't float the extrusions is because I wanted to keep the side of the mag as a continuous UV island — basically, seams are the worst. Floaters also risk more aliasing and waste UV space.

    Also, using floaters isn't that much cheaper. I did a test bake with that too, and it ends up being 1584 verts for the floated mag. I could use this and (since the floated pieces are baked to the flat mag as well) have the floaters only on the left hand side, saving a decent # of verts. But I think I will go with 'B' anyway. 'A' can be lod1 using mip1 if necessary (This asset is designed with first and third person in mind, so a game like ARMA where you can free-look in third person).
  • Bek
  • EarthQuake
    Yeah floating that geo would mean introducing a big ugly hard edge around each bit, which would look worse than simply having them flat.

    You could further optimize those bumps if you wanted to, no real reason to have double supporting loops around them for instance.

    Generally the best way to decide this stuff is to actually look at it from the intended viewing angle. Will this mag be seen up close in FPV? Or will it be off screen, and only visible motion-blurred in a reload anim?

    Also some of the triangulation on the higher-res mag makes me cry. Those super long thin tris will cause issues at lower mips.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    You could further optimize those bumps if you wanted to, no real reason to have double supporting loops around them for instance.
    Yeah good point, I'll try that.
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    Generally the best way to decide this stuff is to actually look at it from the intended viewing angle. Will this mag be seen up close in FPV? Or will it be off screen, and only visible motion-blurred in a reload anim?
    Intended for an ARMA-like game, both first and third, can be seen from any angle due to free look. That's also why I've got a hint of internal pieces when the fire selector is on full or semi.
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    Also some of the triangulation on the higher-res mag makes me cry. Those super long thin tris will cause issues at lower mips.
    Yeah, automatic triangulation. Now that I'm moving on to the final bakes I'll make sure it's done manually to avoid those problems.

    Thanks for the advice. Today I'm going to bake, and consider how to do the welds (Zbrush or SP...) and maybe set up the plywood texture to project over the highpoly.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    ZfhmSVl.png

    Now to bake AO and figure out the best way to get a good curvature map.
  • FourtyNights
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    FourtyNights polycounter lvl 4
    I bought Substance Designer a couple of months ago, but haven't used it pretty much at all, because of stydying human anatomy so intensively... but I've seen SD baking curvature maps quite well from high to low. Could probably work fine with an exploded baking method.
  • Oniram
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    Oniram polycounter lvl 11
    nice bake
  • Fridock
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    Fridock polycounter lvl 6
    Noob question - why you need a curvature map?
  • WarrenM
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    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    Curvature maps allow you to get edge wear effects in apps like Substance Painter/Designer. Among other things...
  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
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    Amsterdam Hilton Hotel hero character
    Last bake looks pretty flawless!
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    @FourtyNights: Yeah I saw the latest substance painter update included a baking function, so I might give that a go; see how it compares to xNormal. I also read of a hacky method to get curvature in modo, so I might test that too.

    @Sean & Ben: Thanks! Here's the right side:

    B58bf4l.png
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Wasn't happy with the gas block and flash hider so I went back and re-did it using more geo.

    f0tPOru.png

    15k tri. Will include full and empty mag.
  • Shrike
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    Shrike polycounter lvl 6
    your pistol grip looks very off, far too wide and the general form is pretty different - the whole weapon family uses this very distinctive grip all over :
    http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/555/555923.jpg
    that replica pic has a very nice side view

    your magazine also looked very thick on the first shots, but hard to tell in the latest pic

    aside looking nice so far
  • mhofever
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    mhofever polycounter lvl 5
    Bek wrote: »
    onVWC47.png

    Rule of thumb with normal mapping, if the geometry isn't helping define the silhouette of the model, bake it! I don't think it's necessary for the extra geometry if it doesn't significantly help with the overall shape. Even though if it is self practice, you'll want to keep in the mindset of baking details in instead of keeping them as actual geometry. With good PBR textures, it'll still look top notch anyway.

    I'd stick with A.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Shrike wrote: »
    your pistol grip looks very off
    I'm not doing the '74 era bakelite grip. I'm doing the modern polymer grip, which certain models of the OTs has been known to have. But good spotting ;) The only other major change you'll notice from the '88 OTs-12 is the iron sight is missing (replaced with AKS74u irons)
    Shrike wrote: »
    your magazine also looked very thick on the first shots, but hard to tell in the latest pic

    aside looking nice so far
    It's accurate. It's for 9x39 (not 5.45x39), so it has to fit some pretty wide rounds. I even checked by packing the mag. And thanks!
    mhofever wrote: »
    Rule of thumb with normal mapping, if the geometry isn't helping define the silhouette of the model, bake it!
    Not necessarily. Sometimes it's important to spend extra geometry to correct the shading of a model (sometimes without changing the silhouette) so you can keep more pieces continous in their UV's. And sometimes you have to place a few verts to avoid skewing in certain areas.

    I ended up extruding those bumps to keep the mag looking chunky in first person, but doing as Earthquake suggested and only having the single loop. Which worked fine.
  • Damian Nachman
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    Damian Nachman polycounter lvl 4
    I ended up extruding those bumps to keep the mag looking chunky in first person, but doing as Earthquake suggested and only having the single loop. Which worked fine.

    I think its important to consider the angle from which the detail is viewed.
    Since this is mostly likely a 1st person weapon, You'll probably view it from the rear, and the viewing angle on the magazine will be almost tangential.
    That can end up making the detail on the clip looked weird, if its baked in the normals.
    I Hope I'm making sense, since its kinda hard to explain, but baked normals always look better when viewed upfront, or in a slight angle.

    So to sum things up, I think you made a good choice by modelling these bumps.
    Overall you did a nice job, and I'll be subbing for the textures!
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Jumped into Substance Painter since its had some big updates and I haven't used it much at all since the beta ended. Really impressed with it; tri-planar is great, the mat id masking is great... anyway, to test it out I textured my 9x39 BP 2008

    f8nomZa.png
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Been distracted with various things (Pillars of Eternity) but thanks to helpfullness of the Allegorithmic guys in their subforum I got around a few problems I was having with understanding Substance Painter. So here's an update:

    0EGJTRF.png

    Extra shots: Barrel, Side close up, First Person View.

    Going to experiment with two other finishes (Black Laquer, which I think will look terrible, and Parkerized, which will probably end up being the boring/clean version) just because making variants is fun and easy. The wood is placeholder until the 30th when megascans goes open beta and I can stick together a nice PBR plywood sheet to project onto this thing. I might even give some of the other variants different types of wood just for fun. I can also change which pieces get which finish at any time, so it could be a frankengun made from mismatching parts if I wanted.
  • Odeca
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    Odeca polycounter lvl 3
    Flawless. I love it!
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Experimented with creating a sling. It's a bit gravity defying because fiddling with zbrushs curve mode trying to get things perfect would probably kill me, and it's just a presentation/test thing anyway.

    mNXyLU3.png

    The sling uses a 512x256 texture map with albedo / roughness (probably unnecessary) / normal

    Also changed the metal to be a bit less cloudy noise. I'm also wondering how I can get some nice big shapes in there with a bare metal texture like this, as well as how I can add in colour variation while remaining subtle and not too stylised.
  • ghaztehschmexeh
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    ghaztehschmexeh Polycount Sponsor
    That's a pretty sweet AKS-74u bake :P

    I want a sling on mine now :(
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Oh and I also updated the bp 2008. Two different lighting envs. just to show that's it isn't ridiculously shiny.

    ots-bp.JPG

    edit: reference for the above. Only difference is mine is BP rather than SP-6, hence the black rather than blue paint.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    dVVWSiL.png
    SnktAef.png

    Started some wear on the mag, made a few tweaks and imported my holosight (because why not).
  • Fridock
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    Fridock polycounter lvl 6
    Looks great! I really dig the Metal definition here, are you using Metalness maps for that or Reflectivity?
  • aaronmwolford
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    aaronmwolford polycounter lvl 8
    Looking great! The bakes came out solid and I like the addition of the sling. Nicely done.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Fridock wrote: »
    Looks great! I really dig the Metal definition here, are you using Metalness maps for that or Reflectivity?
    Metalness. I was originally worried I might find it a little limiting; though I didn't have that issue with the eotech xps3 which was also metalness (but mostly plastic so...). The biggest downside is that white border you get with transitions from metal to non-metal, so I've tried my best to avoid that problem.

    But I do quite like metalness. The efficiency of it (both in authoring content and the total memory used) appeals to me.
    Looking great! The bakes came out solid and I like the addition of the sling. Nicely done.
    Thanks. You don't see slings very often do you? They are rather fiddly to create. I might make some changes to it yet — I was thinking of maybe wrapping something around the stock, we'll see.
  • Kaine123
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    Kaine123 polycounter lvl 5
    5a18a8be8e.jpg

    you really oughta do this for the handguard
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Kaine123 wrote: »
    you really oughta do this for the handguard
    Bek wrote: »
    The wood is placeholder until the 30th when megascans goes open beta and I can stick together a nice PBR plywood sheet to project onto this thing.
    :) Having said that though, it might that the ots-12 doesn't have the plywood foregrip like the aks-74u / ak74 / akm etc; it's really hard to tell from the limited photographs out there. And if the model was continued passed limited testing it probably would've used polymer like the 100 series.
  • aaronmwolford
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    aaronmwolford polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks for the share Kaine! I'm working on a wooden flintlock that may find some use from this. :)
  • Pedro Amorim
    Bek wrote: »
    :) Having said that though, it might that the ots-12 doesn't have the plywood foregrip like the aks-74u / ak74 / akm etc; it's really hard to tell from the limited photographs out there. And if the model was continued passed limited testing it probably would've used polymer like the 100 series.

    sure, but don't forget that making it look cool is more important than making it 100% realistic
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Yeah I really struggle with that. I like accuracy and realism so it's hard to find a happy medium between real and what looks best on screen.

    ...speaking of, how's this for boring realism:

    9sHqXgv.png

    A simple black parkerized material.
  • aaronmwolford
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    aaronmwolford polycounter lvl 8
    Man, your bakes are so clean! Your metal is looking good as a base. Keep it up.
  • nickcomeau
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    nickcomeau polycounter lvl 3
    I don't know much about guns but I think this is a very pretty gun. I feel like the side is a bit boring to me though. Maybe add some surface scratches to add some interest? Where they would be when taking the gun apart and putting it back together to clean it maybe. Just a thought to help push it a bit more. Great work so far though!
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Now with 100% more marmoset viewer for your critiquing pleasure:

    thumb-viewer.jpg

    And here's a second version with the folded stock, empty mag, and a harsher lighting env.
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