THRONE ROOM Metal Garden ScottMichaelH
polycounter lvl 14
Hello everyone 
INTRO: For my entry in the contest, I'm going with a throne room combining natural and sci fi elements. I hope this thread will be a good learning experience not only for myself, but anyone else reading it. Feel free to add any constructive comments and ask any questions you may have.
GOALS:
With every piece, I attempt to make my best art possible. Here are some more specific points:
1. A strong concept. Admittedly this is my biggest weakness as an artist. Most of my best work involves heavy referencing and basing the idea on an existing game, comic book or anime. One thing I learned from Illustration classes at Kent State is the importance of reworking the concept until its ready, before diving into the actual production.
2. Effective use of shape, size, balance and contrast. The models need to be well designed or no amount of texturing will make the scene work well.
3. Solid Material definition. The use of contrasting elements (metal, water, grass, wood, lights, etc.) will not be effective unless they are well defined.
4. Appropriate mood/atmosphere. Lighting is so much more than illumination. The best thing I gained from learning comic book coloring some years back was the balancing act between separating elements in the scene, with painting a mood with lighting. I don't want everything to be "local color". The scene should have a color scheme that unifies it.
CONCEPT:
The concept is going to be the most important step, and biggest challenge. I'm sure many of us contestants will be looking at many of the same concepts online, but these three below particularly define the direction I'm going in:
Here are my first couple of sketches:
I want to get a composition going before any color ideas (which will possibly change throughout). So far I'm thinking of very large open spaces off to the side and back of the throne which sunlight will come through. The front area of the throne will likely be simple in contrast to the busyness of the steps and throne. I don't want to "lift" TOO much from Kekai Kotaki's concept (the one with the tree throne) so I will need to spend time on the throne, pillars, tree and steps to find the right combination of natural and sci fi parts.
INTRO: For my entry in the contest, I'm going with a throne room combining natural and sci fi elements. I hope this thread will be a good learning experience not only for myself, but anyone else reading it. Feel free to add any constructive comments and ask any questions you may have.
GOALS:
With every piece, I attempt to make my best art possible. Here are some more specific points:
1. A strong concept. Admittedly this is my biggest weakness as an artist. Most of my best work involves heavy referencing and basing the idea on an existing game, comic book or anime. One thing I learned from Illustration classes at Kent State is the importance of reworking the concept until its ready, before diving into the actual production.
2. Effective use of shape, size, balance and contrast. The models need to be well designed or no amount of texturing will make the scene work well.
3. Solid Material definition. The use of contrasting elements (metal, water, grass, wood, lights, etc.) will not be effective unless they are well defined.
4. Appropriate mood/atmosphere. Lighting is so much more than illumination. The best thing I gained from learning comic book coloring some years back was the balancing act between separating elements in the scene, with painting a mood with lighting. I don't want everything to be "local color". The scene should have a color scheme that unifies it.
CONCEPT:
The concept is going to be the most important step, and biggest challenge. I'm sure many of us contestants will be looking at many of the same concepts online, but these three below particularly define the direction I'm going in:
Here are my first couple of sketches:
I want to get a composition going before any color ideas (which will possibly change throughout). So far I'm thinking of very large open spaces off to the side and back of the throne which sunlight will come through. The front area of the throne will likely be simple in contrast to the busyness of the steps and throne. I don't want to "lift" TOO much from Kekai Kotaki's concept (the one with the tree throne) so I will need to spend time on the throne, pillars, tree and steps to find the right combination of natural and sci fi parts.
Replies
More macro concepts. I don't feel like its getting anywhere fast, so I'm going to go micro and work on the throne since the rest of the room will motif off of the throne's theme.
Some chair design attempts. I wasn't feeling anything much so I decided to simply sit down and draw shape ideas (for the scene in general). I'm starting to feel like this may be the direction I need. I will continue to draw more shapes later tonight.
I'm thinking that the throne and the pillars should be mechanical elements. The natural elements will appear "natural". In other words this is an advanced culture that allows the vegetation to grow around itself, but doesn't actually have "powers" to control it. The chair therefore shouldn't be made out of tree, but metal. Also this isn't a post-apocalyptical scenario either.
More shape ideas. Notice how I was still throwing things down on the top row and then began experimenting by placing them together at the bottom of the page.
At this point I feel the scene's general layout has taken shape and its time to detail the individual assets.
Thanks. Some development of the throne, Pillar and whatever that other thing is.
One more scene update. I will now finally go into 3d to block things out.
SOFTWARE:
Photoshop
3ds Max
Mudbox
Unreal 4
Substance Painter
B2M
Substance Designer
After a major creative block (and some playing Ratchet and Clank: Into the Nexus for inspiration) I've made a turn in direction. I felt that Ratchet and Clank would be a good source of ideas because of the mixture of sci fi with natural elements. Here are a few of the thoughts I've had over the last couple days:
1) I was trying too hard to come up with a masterpiece. I'm no concept genius and shouldn't try to be. The shape ideas I fooled around with weren't integrating well with the starting point reference of Kotaki's painting. The shapes were out of place.
2) Going through other environment pieces on Polycount, it can be observed that there isn't a need to always have a major centerpiece model/sculpt to make an environment work. Admittedly, I needed to simplify.
3) I almost gave up on the sci fi elements all together, and still might. At the moment I have at least given up of the major prop ideas I worked out earlier in favor of a simpler block modeling (seen above). I was thinking too hard about how to incorporate elements, etc. What I learned from Ratchet and Clank more than anything was to just play with the scene, have fun, through some simple ideas around, don't worry too much about metal standing in water or how it functions, or why it's there.
Thanks. The "reflective stuff" is water. I will do a paint over tomorrow for a more detailed concept. Now I'm thinking it's a quiet room with sunlight coming in (will have to address the side windows upon getting the lighting right for sure). The throne area will be much more lit than the water. The Sakura Tree is a favorite color scheme of mine and I've been wanting to put it in more of my art for awhile. This is my best opportunity. Some mood/color scheme examples:
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/408842472397872041/
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/408842472397856106/
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/408842472397918912/
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/408842472397936644/
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/408842472397919050/
I will continue to design and conceptualize :poly009:
Paint over. I tried a more sic fi version and it didn't work. I did include a pink ball of some sort thats inspired by the save sphere of Final Fantasy X. It has more of a magic vibe to me than a sci fi. I also don't want this to look whimsical either, so I'm calling the sci fi idea "done".
The original concept's idea has a giant tree connecting to a structure of "tree" thats shaped somewhat like a pipe organ, that is in turn, connected to the throne, which is made out of tree as well. Taking one element out seems to destroy the whole thing so I decided to redesign the whole thing with a stone throne and sakura trees climbing up the side pillars like vines.
I'm losing the "Metal Garden" idea and going with "Stone Garden" now instead.
Thanks a lot for that crit ... It made me reconsider! Now I'm just calling it "Garden". Here's the concept at this point. Any thoughts or crits?
1. I've decided not to spend too much time on modeling small details.
2. One thing I'm really wanting to avoid is this looking much like a typical "regal" or "fantasy-medieval" type of throne room so I don't want fancy architectural details along the walls and pillars.
3. The textures will create the stone likeness, not the sculpt.
4. Still wrestling with how much metal and sci-fi will be in there, but that throne is definitely a stand in only ... I am doing the sci-fi throne.
Can I ask in which engine you will be rendering in and are you planning on a PBR workflow?
PBR workflow yes. Here is the throne at this point.
Here's where I'm at now.
1) There are several vertical lines through the comp and I'm wondering about (adjusting) the size contrast. The waterfalls are similar in size to the trees, but if I made them wider they might overpower and kill the negative space of the wall.
2) I need to seriously get the trees down and rooted.
3) The ground needs to be detailed and I'm not sure what I will sculpt, or model, or paint. Definitely some rocks on the steps.
4) Need to have the ceiling finalized so that those wires aren't just sticking out of it.
Good Luck...
Widened the waterfalls, added the stair rocks and wax brushed the trees.
bakes
More bakes. I initially tried to make the waterflow a separate mesh but it became obvious that it wasn't going to work once I struggled to make the retopo mesh.
The basic scene in Unreal.
First pass on the textures with Substance Painter. I am currently trying to figure out how I am going to make the water flowing down the dirty ground as I've never done such before. I also need to figure out getting the water flowing from the machines as well.
Close ups of the throne.
Any and all crits or advice to give on the leaves? I used two pieces, one with a branch and fewer leaves, and another piece with no branch and several more leaves. I duplicated these pieces in Unreal a hundred or so times. Another thing I'll add is that I very much chose this sort of environment because it was lacking in my skillset/portfolio. This is admittedly an area I need practice on, namely anything organic or naturally occurring.
Going to start posting materials now. I'm using Substance Painter. Here's the wall. Comments welcome of course.
A couple of comments:
1)is this a final color scheme?
2)lighting looks a bit overblown and some details are drowned in shadows but I guess it's a temporal setup
3)Rocks are of different colors, is that intended?
also this:
Here's the update on the wall.
@dzibarik: Thanks for commenting. The color scheme will be closer to the concept I painted earlier. The lighting is definitely working lights, as well as the rock textures. In fact most everything in the pic you commented is still up for change.
I changed the concept with the machines on the sides so that they are no longer spilling water but simply hanging cables. I realized I wanted the floor water to be calm and was loosing interest in having to learn how I would make water pouring down and splashing. I started coloring the throne. I'm having to decide on how much destruction and oxidization I will place on the metal parts.
Material definition continues. I am using a combination of photo textures and Substance Painter preset materials. I'm using layers and masks to blend between cleaner and more dirty versions of the same idea. After that, I'm adding extra layers of dirt and rust and so forth to increase definition.
I really like the concept! The trees are not turning around the pipe anymore, i think that was a cool idea. By now the circle shape of the back wall is completely hide. Maybe you can try to reduce the number of leaves, maybe like that:
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1305542836/_.jpg
Also, is just my opinion but you have such a cool and clean and futuristic throne that is don't match with these old look machines don't you think? Maybe you just want to make contrast futurist/old in the scene?
Thanks for the comments.
I've found you need to be careful of noise when using painter. Often times now I'm turning off the height for a lot of layers when texturing. When working in painter you're often zoomed in an obsessing about that prop, dont forget to zoom out and see if it works at a distance and is still readable. Otherwise you can end up with a very noisey speckled normal map that fights for attention by the end.
You maybe want to think about what your main light direction is going to be. There are quite a few lights in there that are starting to fight eachother for attention. Are the windows going to be your key light? Will you have a source near the throne?
Also dont forget to have a look in diffuse only every now in then in unreal to make sure your values of light and dark aren't getting too contrasted on your diffuse textures. Notice how you're untextured version is more readable when everything is grey. You can end up fighting lighting with this, e.g your wall cables look quite a bit darker than the lighter stone steps.
Keep going, hope some of that helps somehow
Here's a textured throne and rock.
Thanks for commenting. I still haven't decided what I'm doing in terms of the final lights and the set up behind the throne, but I have a few ideas. Right now I'm thinking the "windows" (which will stay open) will not be a primary light source. There will be a sunlight hitting from above/behind the throne and trees. I will attempt to experiment with some cracks in the ceiling to make some effects of lighting passing through cracks onto an otherwise dark room. We will see. :poly009:
I've been working on several ideas for the stairs lately.
Here's a new direction for the stairs. Now I'm thinking it's in several block pieces.
Working on the ground to the sides of the steps. My question is ... how would I (or how would you) go about creating bushy patches of grass in Unreal like in the following refs:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/408842472398001936/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/408842472395403215/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/408842472398001973/
Also feel free to comment on the water. The main water plane is looking fine to me but that path streaming down looks more like metal to me than water.
Thanks for commenting Jerc. Here's where I'm at now. Admittedly I don't know at the moment how to get it any more like foamy water than this and will continue to learn and try. :poly009: