Going to College for Game Art
polycounter lvl 6
Hey guys,
I am looking at going to college to get a degree in Game Art or Game Design. I have heard that having a degree really helps when trying to get a studio job.
In case you were going to say something about an art degree being the most useless thing you can get, I already have an AA in Computer Science to fall back on if this fails.
Are there any colleges with good programs that you know of in or near Maryland, USA. I really have no idea where to even start looking. I know University of Baltimore has a program, but with their page showing art that is not really that good does not really give me a great feeling about it.
University of Baltimore - Simulation and Digital Entertainment
Thanks for any help you can give!
I am looking at going to college to get a degree in Game Art or Game Design. I have heard that having a degree really helps when trying to get a studio job.
In case you were going to say something about an art degree being the most useless thing you can get, I already have an AA in Computer Science to fall back on if this fails.
Are there any colleges with good programs that you know of in or near Maryland, USA. I really have no idea where to even start looking. I know University of Baltimore has a program, but with their page showing art that is not really that good does not really give me a great feeling about it.
University of Baltimore - Simulation and Digital Entertainment
Thanks for any help you can give!
Replies
Because I have this feeling a LOT of colleges muddle game design with game art, thinking they're somehow synonymous, when they're not.
What I would really like doing is Game art as a Prop or Character artist as that is what I have the most experience in.
Are you willing to go to an out-of-state school?
If you go to school just to get that piece of paper, it's not going to help you much in this field. But if you know what you want to learn going in, then you can narrow down what kind of environment you're looking for, and as such ideal school (art school, game school, community college...), or if you even need a school. In my opinion, it's a much better idea to go in with research already done and goals set (even if said goals are fairly big, simple or vague). This minimizes the chance of fucking up and opting for a school that has a laughable, uber-dated course.
I went to a "game art" school (AIE, for the record). It was alright overall, but I knew I went for the specific reason of wanting to learn how to use 3D programs and complete workflows (the technical side, in other words) after trying for months to learn it at home with no such luck picking anything up (I'd been focused on 2D learning/work seriously for a good 3-4 years prior at this point, and very much wanted to do concept work. Originally I think I only wanted to learn 3D so I knew what I should and shouldn't include in my designs, but I digress).
I personally needed a school environment to absorb the information, and every cent was worth it because I did actually manage to get into 3D there, and love it as equally as I love doing 2D work now. It gave me technical 3D skills, local contacts (and work experience), and free time to learn stuff the course wasn't teaching me on the side because it was only a half-week course and I wasn't fussed with the technicalities of passing on solo projects as much as I was intent on learning the skills of being a character artist. Because I was surrounded by like-minded people, and was focused more on the technical side of things, no local art schools really seemed like a better fit for me.
But it was also a horribly generalist course. Well, generalist is one thing (I wouldn't take them seriously if they tried to open a separate character art stream either lol), but this... Look, for a part-time 2-year course, that was just too much to cover. I know a lot of students came out of it not knowing where they wanted to go at all, and being horribly prepared for any work at that. I also know a number of people who are doing well, and a few who got job offers on graduation. As far as I know, all of the latter already knew what they wanted to do in laymans terms, figured it out quickly as we cycled through first year or already knew exactly.
So, yeah, maybe that's why a lot of people go. That does not at all mean it's a good idea (especially if you live in a place where you actually need to pay for your education right away). I like to see people think, because lord knows 99/100 game art courses won't even begin to do this for them.
I'll still repeat it after thinking about it while I wrote this. What is it you're hoping to learn, or achieve, by attending a games related course?
Thank you for the long reply. This is exactly what I look at getting from getting a degree for this, a lot of the technical and design skills, as well as opportunities to get into the industry. But, I would also be going just for that "piece of paper" as it would be one more thing that sets me apart from the crowds when applying for jobs.
I do understand that I can learn the majority of things about 3d on the internet. I have already spent a few years getting to where I am, but as BagelHero said, nothing, for me at least, compares to a real school environment.
I also attached something I am working on currently so you guys can see my skill level just incase that has any significance.
But, be it as it may, if you want to go to school, try to go to a school that has good teachers. Look at the instructors and evaluate years in the industry and if they are still in it. I got incredibly blessed to have such teachers that were on point with current industry standards so, it helped a lot to break into a job. Others, not so lucky, and are about a decade behind whats new.
Though, if I were to do it again, I would go to an actual art school, and not a game specific school. Your going to be an artist, you want to know practical art theories. I personally think it helps to have a good foundation to build upon in the long run. 3Dsmax, Zbrush, photoshop, ect, are just tools. They don't create art, you do. Doesnt madder if you have a degree and know all there is to know about the programs, if your a bad artist, your a bad artist.
I went to the University of Southern California for the Interactive Media, Games, and Design school in the School of Cinematic Arts for uni. I made this decision against schools like SCAD, Carnegie Mellon, etc. IMGD is a game design school in the strictest sense: they focus on the theory and practical work that goes behind designing a game, not making game art. There was the occassional art course through the SCA's Animation School, but nothing substantiative.
I wanted to be a game artist. Why did I choose to go to a game design school?
Because:
USC provided the resources for me to succeed, and what I needed to do was take advantage of that. I don't think many schools provide that opportunity like USC did. It also brought in and attracted the best-of-the-best in terms of students, and I was able to work with those "ninjas" during my time there. These were uni students who were as serious, if not more, about making video games, and I thank God I was able to work with them.
What I ended up with come graduation:
An example of the quality of work we were able to complete at USC:
http://vimeo.com/90607851
I would recommend looking into effective schools like USC if that is a possibility for you.
As well, I also heavily encourage finding a good community college to take care of General Education courses and basic art courses. In my head, it's generally cheaper, and while you are sacrificing certain social features like dorms, freshmen life, etc, you'll save a butt-load of money possibly if you're transferring to another school.
Let me be clear about my situation, it hasn't been all roses. I'm currently unemployed, and that's after a string of short term gigs arond So Cal after graduatin in December 2013, but I'm choosig to believe that I'm at a pretty good place according to other game developers and teachers I've talked to about my situation and laments about "Why don't I have a job?" etc.
No problem. But here's the thing: You already have the skills most of these courses would teach you, and chances are they'll only just touch on design theory and aesthetics.
You'd have to do a ton of research and be willing to move interstate to find a school that was truly exceptional if you want to get a class where you actually learn to be better than you already are.
Most schools/teachers don't really or can't take care of your personal progress. As long as you meet the competent criteria their job is done. I hate to be negative on this one, and I wish it weren't the case, but there are not a lot of great teachers out there, and the scene moves too fast to think you'll get an up to date curriculum.
I couldn't edit a cube properly and didn't even really know what UVs were when I went to school, so this wasn't a problem for me. But you know how to model, sculpt, UV, etc already. So unless you found a course that really focused on proper industry workflow, allowed you to make games for your folio, and had teachers that gave proper feedback as a common thread through the entire course... You're not going to get anything much out of it. And you wouldn't believe how few and far between courses that really do this are.
You'd be better off going to a regular art course and improving your eye for aesthetic/getting proper critique on your anatomy, composition, color theory, materials, presentation, mood, lighting etc because if I'm honest, that's where your weak points are right now and they are exactly the things that you'd be hard pressed finding a game art school to teach you thoroughly. And even then, it probably wouldn't be in a game or 3D art sense if you went to an art school. So where does that leave you?
Probably teaching yourself using the internet, and using Polycount and similar forums/sites as a mentor. Pretty sure this isn't what you want to hear, but try posting projects here before you finish them. Post the concept and make a brief for yourself and update frequently, as you go and before you make any irreversible changes. You'd get invaluable feedback that's hard to give on finished pieces. That said, you should do this anyway even if you do decide to attend a school.
PS: For what it's worth, if you'd like some crits on your overall work rather than just the one piece, please PM me. It's not really my place to go on about it here, and I'd feel weird PMing you when you didn't ask for it, but I do have some thoughts I wouldn't mind sharing.
none. they do not exist.
find a game with mod tools and just get started.
go to school if you want a fat bill and your time wasted.
if you don't believe me then start asking hard questions about placement rates for graduates at these places.
Yeah, the school will not hand hold you, which brings up questions like "Could I have done this on my own?"
Most game design schools are laughably outdated and crazy expensive, and few actually prepare you/give you the skills required to get a job. The best part about these schools is that they provide a structured learning environment, but you can fairly easily recreate that yourself, along with forums like polycount for peer feedback.
Having a degree is much, much more important if you want to get into the engineering side of things, but with a CS degree you're set there.
For art/design, the hiring process basically works like this, in order of importance:
1. Quality of work/portfolio
2. Professional experience
3. Amateur experience (mods etc)
4. Style of work shown (how well will your art fit in with the art team?)
5. Personality, (how well will you fit in with the team?)
6. Education, maybe, if they even care
+9000 to this
Art people I met in 4 not so big game studious I worked for were usually of two main categories:
a. former modders who are happy to get their dream job
b. former art schools graduates who couldn't grant a steady cash flow from their personal art career and found their last resort in a “normal” job .
And I saw very few who studied specialized game art/design courses. Although a little bit more recently
So to preface what I am about to say next, time really isn't a huge issue, and money is not a massive issue.
I get an AA in Art from my local community college so I can stay local for a bit longer, and then I go on with my Comp Sci AA and go to a uni and get a Bachelors in Comp Sci so I at least have a 4 y degree if doing graphics goes south?
I went to a Community college that had agreements with all of the local universities so all credits transfer.
Solid plan or horrible mistake?
Learning how to use 3d modeling apps and level editors and the like is stuff you can learn on your own (lots of excellent free or cheap resources for that), and to be frank, if you can't pick the technical/app stuff up on your own, you will find it very difficult to even get into the industry, as technologies are constantly changing and studios use various tools and ever evolving workflows, so you need to be able to pick up software and techniques on the fly.
Very much this. I've done portfolio review for a couple studios, and from my experience there is practically zero relation between artists who are hirable (good portfolios and experience), and artists who went to video game college. This isn't to say that those schools are completely useless, but they do cost an enormous amount of money, and by and large they leave students unprepared for the job market, unless you really push yourself to go above and beyond the course work. Basically, if you work on your art every day and post it on Polycount from crits in addition to going to those schools, you'll have a good chance of coming out with a decent portfolio. If you show up and do the course work as is, without putting in effort to make sure you're creating industry-quality work, you'll probably have another 1-2 years of training on your own after school that will be required before you can find a job.
So one way or another, you have to put the work in and grind it out on your own. You can pay handsomely for the privilege, or not, its really up to you.
The best student work that I see is from artists who were already quite good before they went to college, usually they worked on mods and had some decent artistic and technical skills already. I've also heard a lot of horror stories from these same people about how useless the course work was and how ill-informed the instructors are (though this will vary depending on where you go and who you get, of course). Again, the people who came out with solid work were the ones who put in the time on their own, and did quality work, some times in spite of the course work.
Posting in other people's threads, giving them feedback, creating relationships, etc, is essential as well.
Really, you can't let lack of feedback be some sort of excuse, you need to have the will to do the work on your own regardless of the situation to make it in/into the games industry. If you show that will to improve, you will get attention, I've seen it countless times.
Tidal Blast, not to call you out personally, but you made 4 threads in the art showcase forums last year and while you've gotten a little feedback, your biggest problem is that only post at most like one update to the asset and then we never see from you again. Did you finish it but not post it? Did you stop working on it? You won't get more feedback or attention if you stop posting.
I am starting to think that getting some sort of traditional art education first and then going for my comp sci degree is the pest course of action as it gives me the best of both worlds but I will continue to try to improve as much as I can with 3d on my own in the meantime.
I don't follow you here, I wasn't talking about experienced artists at any point.
I'm not sure why its sad, its perfectly true, even for inexperienced artists. The more you post, the more progress you show, the more you show you're taking feedback to heart and implimenting it, the more responses you will get. This applies to complete noobs and the most experienced of pros alike.
Bolded part is complete nonsense. If thats what you want to tell yourself to feel better about it thats fine, but there is a huge amount of value in actually finishing work. Over the years I've seen countless artists that only have a bunch of half-finished, wip work. They aren't the ones getting jobs, the guys who put in the effort to finish their work are.
You can get defensive and make some more excuses about why you don't finish work, but finishing projects and taking what you've learned to the next project, rinsing, and repeating is absolutely essential to improving in any line of work. If you never finish anything, you don't fully understand the creation process, its as simple as that.
This mentality that it would be a waste of time to finish low quality work is so absolutely backwards. Nobody starts out awesome, all the talented artists that you see here made some crappy work when they first started out. You need to own it and follow through, and eventually, after making enough assets, you will see serious improvement. There isn't a shortcut you can take here to only practice "the important stuff". Thats not how any of this works.
There is absolutely no reason for it to be one or the other. You can work on projects and ask questions on polycount, why you think these two things are mutual exclusive I don't know, but its very bizarre.
OP: Sorry for the thread derail, but this "why post if I'm not getting feedback" sentiment is so common that I feel like someone needs to talk about it.
A key point of PC's existence is that it's a community. If you swoop in and expect everyone to help you through every stumbling block, you're going to have a bad time. It takes time, it just does. Participating in challenges, giving feedback, posting updates...it builds your reputation and good standing within the community. The more you give, the more you get, it doesn't matter what your actual skill level is. Vets will get more posts that are basically rub n tugs, but new members will get help too - it just takes time.
Arguably, I would say that focusing on a project going in the wrong direction and then jumping into fancy apps that speed up the process isn't exactly the best way to go about improving. It would be way more beneficial to actually finish projects and build upon what you failed or succeeded at...different ways to train and work, whatever, but thats a key part to developing your skills. Plus, as someone who does have a say in hiring, there's no way I would hire someone who couldn't finish their work - even if they have jaw dropping modeling skills.
Plus, I'm really not sure if just asking questions instead of showing your work would yield better results. Instead, you'd probably seem like someone who never actually tried anything on your own. PnP is kinda the heart of the site and things come from it naturally...you see progress happening and give feedback, if there are problems people can help...I'm not sure why you would need to only do one or the other, surely actually showing work and asking related questions would get answers?
Also, OP: A paper won't get you a job. Literally, I've never looked at someone's proof for their schooling. BUT. Speaking first hand, a piece of paper will help you work abroad because you're dealing with government employees at that stage, not artists.
This part is sadly true. One assumes a university is always on the cutting edge, but more often than not you'll have professors who are still using Maya 1998 and haven't even heard of a sculpting package. (That might be a bit extreme, but its true in my case). Universities also seem to almost block out practices that they aren't okay with, so you may not be exposed to certain software packages, or even methods and pipelines simply because they aren't comfortable enough with it.
As someone in a game design program right now at Rochester Institute of Technology, I wish every day I had considered my options more carefully. I have learned more from polycount, digital tutors, cgma, gnomon, and gumroad than my college courses.
That being said, I do enjoy the courses, and the program has helped further me in my career, I'm currently working at an indie studio as a tech artist, and I've been working on my portfolio every day. It also helped me to figure out that I didn't want to be a programmer (which the degree program focuses on), after I took an intro 3d course with a professor who loved Polycount. Not everyone is that lucky. Most of my classmates are lazy, they aren't driven, and they prefer to play games instead of make them. They dont know what the want to do with their lives. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if youre paying tens of thousands of dollars a year to figure that out...
If I could go back, knowing what I know now, I would go to college for art, or sculpture, or something more fundamental. Simply because I would enjoy it, and gain a lot from the foundational knowledge, not because I think it would help me get a job or something. I would continue to learn about game art on my free time, and learn on my own, and keep building my portfolio.
For the OP, you've already got an AA in computer science, AFAIK most schools classify 3D/Game Art as a Bachelors of Science so you've technically finished half the work already.
Not to brag but,
I'm the youngest guy in the company, everyone is 23 and over, I'm 19.
I have the same salary as the ones with higher education, you know why? Skills, nobody even asks you here if you have a degree. If you can do the job and do it on time, you are good.
Polycount is the best education you can get for free.
Yes they openly discuss it, I was shocked too.
My interpretation is that someone who doesn't go to college has to be very passionate to get to a professional level. Whereas the average college student is just doing his assignments and trying to get a degree? Obviously not saying people who have gone to college aren't passionate though!
I went to school for animation so there was more focus on art, Hollywood VFX and traditional animation. It was a lonely place for a game artist.
Best of luck!
Save yourself the money, or rather, invest a smaller amount in a good PC and software, and spend the same amount of time making art and posting it here.
As for degrees, your idea of art then comp sci is decent, but a lot of schooling. If you want to be a game artist invest in the art route. Get a bachelors at least. The comp sci stuff is obviously key to making games, but if you're looking to work for a studio, then you can just do art, and pick up the light technical stuff that's useful as you go.
Networking is also extremely important. Who you know opens doors much faster. What you know and can do lands you the job.
I'd say that Polycount, and your local game related meetups (IGDA perhaps?) are better for this than college campuses.
Even if the finished project was a complete disaster, at least it was a completed disaster.
I know for me personally in the beginning it was really tough to have a project go from beginning to end, but school kind of requires you to finish or you fail and lose a lot of money.
So I wouldn't say school is for everyone, but for me it had just the right motivations for me to get my ass in gear and actually complete work.
Does anyone have any advice for me?
if you are trying to break in, i'd suggest starting at the bottom.
try to find some smaller indie developers in your region and ask them if you could help them out with their art a bit. even if they cant pay you much, the experience will be very valuable.
thats sort of the way i did it, but to be fair i went to a for profit school before that.
also half a year realy is not that long, so don't believe you will get a nice job in the next 1 or 2 years.
and those traditional values don't realy apply on modern economies anymore. there is no thing like "jobsecurity".
people around me always tell me how im working too much, although compared to the regular polycount professional i am extremely lazy with my 6 extrahours i invest in personal work.
you are on the right path though, if you keep on improving you will score a job sooner or later.
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