April WIP [Dmitrys Fanart]

Linkzelda41

April WIP [Dmitrys Fanart]


Disclaimer: I do not have intentions (at least in this forum of course) in sculpting certain private parts Dmitrys would be known to add to females. I honestly decided to do this in my journey to go through trial-and-error and have a cumulative experiential learning in 3D that won’t end up biting me in the end.


Hey everyone, after seeing a comment in DeviantArt from the user, PandaProduction, I decided I might as well step into this forum, and expose myself in getting critiques and criticism at some point instead of absolving myself from that, and ending up building bad habits; especially for circumstances for anatomy in general.

My goals are simple in this thread:

-Make an A-posed (or whatever term is appropriate; forgive me for not being adept to certain terminologies in 3D) model of one of Dmitrys characters, April.
- Do whatever it takes to get her anatomically correct (kudos to PandaProduction for commenting on one of my WIP)
- Make a few poses with her, and that’s pretty much it

I just needed something random to do so I don’t end up being that guy that takes more time looking at what to do than actually doing something. I do have intentions to create characters that show up in my dreams, non-lucid and lucid, and do a plethora of things (e.g. animating, posing). But this character isn’t part of that; it’s just for a progressive experiential learning. I'm just a guy that wants to do this stuff as a hobby, but more of a personal one where I intend to be more than just casual, of course.

Here’s a list of the WIPs on this character so far, and some will be turntables that you can click and drag as well. Maybe this might be better than having only static images all the time:




(WIP #1 Turntable):

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-Turntable-WIP-1-Dmitrys-Fanart-497025105







(WIP #1.5 Turntable):

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-Turntable-WIP-1-5-Dmitrys-Fanart-497056825

Here’s a Low poly version of the face (turntable):

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-Low-Poly-Model-Turntable-497842019

Feel free to make images out of the turntables to red mark.


Here’s a few images of the character reference:

http://imgur.com/a/94ErH#4 [NSFW]

I know this forum has a lot of nudity and isn’t SFW anyway, but just putting the tag out there.


One of the images is obviously not April, but I intended to use the other one as a guide seeing how there were slight landmarks created on the face that I wanted to translate in the WIPs, but I horribly executed that intention. There will be character model sheets of the face and body that I intend to use as very loose references. I’m sure that the breast size will be an obvious concern, but I am trying to conform to the actual character themselves.

So this isn’t intended to be realistic at all. Maybe semi-realistic, but I would be making a fool of myself presuming I can accomplish either with the progress I’m at. I’m fairly limited in imagining a 3/4ths view of the face other than the image of the character with a different hair color, and I feel this may be affecting how the model looks in general.


With that, I’m ready for any feedback. No need for euphemisms and pleasantries, so I'll take your honest responses because that's the only way to become any better.

The neck is just a placeholder, by the way.

Inb4 http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76733

Brian "Panda" Choi

Welcome to the Polycount pit.

Delete the hair mesh.

Drop your subdivisions on your face model till you can see faceting.

Then, sculpt what you EXACTLY see with Asaro's Planes of the face http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76733.

We need to make sure the forms are there before we start thinking about making likenesses.

BagelHero

Yeah, sorry about the welcome and the slap in the face approach. I can see you really want to sculpt specific characters, but you'll do them better justice if you put it off for a bit and focus on learning to sculpt a little more.

I know Dmitrys' a porn artist, but your face currently resembles a blow up doll. Do not worry about color at this point, get rid of it and focus on sculpting something that looks good in grey. Unfortunately, you kind of have it backwards; it's actually just as hard or more difficult to sculpt a stylized character without foundations in real life anatomy. Unless you've been drawing for a really long time in stylised art and picked up a bunch of anatomy casually, realism is really just as hard.

Seconding Panda's suggestion of cross-referencing with the Planes of the Face, that's always a great idea. Dropping your subdivisions will give you more control. Use more real life reference, too, and for style reference use Dmitrys work, not your own (sorry for being a bit harsh, but you're not quite there yet). No need to only use April, go for any girl whos facial structure looks similar. There should be plenty if you don't limit yourself to one character for style ref.

Keep us updated, and keep going!

Linkzelda41

@JadeEyePanda, guess you saw the link from DeviantArt. I’ll be working on sculpting from the link you provided, thank you.

@BagelHero,

No problem, I don’t see any of this as intimidating because I’ve had much worse. Thanks for giving an honest response on how you’re conceptualizing my competency in anatomy in general. It’s better than me trying to give self-aggrandizing assurances.

Seeing how I should ditch the hairstyle and color completely, I went ahead and used the RS_GreyClayExtreme matcap, and will be blocking out the forms from the reference JadeEyePanda provided.

Here’s a link to two turntables of two subdivision levels:

(Subdivision 2):

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-2-Subdivision-Level-2-497924622

(Subdivision 3):

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-2-Subdivision-Level-3-497925281

They’re both click and drag turntables as well, and the lips are just there as placeholders on a different subtool while I find a way to form the face around that. To respond to BagelHero’s critique on the face looking like a blow up doll, that’s what I get for setting the clay buildup on intensity level #6, and putting the focal shift to 0. I was blocking out the shape from one of the references below

http://i.imgur.com/XtT0fvz.jpg

to try and salvage how weird it look, but it ended up being the blow up doll instead.

Anyway, it doesn’t seem much of a progress at the moment, as I wanted to give a turntable with two subdivision levels for anyone that may want to see a visual representation of what I’ll be working on. Will probably post something later on in the day before my day off from work is over.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Nice, here we go! Progress ahoy!

Also use trimDynamic to literally make planes on the sculpt.

Remove the lip mesh, that's why it's looking like a blow up doll. You're going to sculpt that in later.

You're also maintaining puckered lips. Don't do this, it makes it look like it's perpetually ready to give felatio. Neutral face means mouth is closed and NOT puckering up for a whistle.



Your profile view of the face is SUPER flat faced, like exaggerated Asian flat face. Don't do this. Match the Asaro heads better, really recognize where planes are inserting and existing, and what angle they're doing so at.

If you NEED references INSIDE your ZBrush scene, google Spotlight to see how you can place reference images INSIDE the document window.

Linkzelda41

I usually glance over the list of references on my Samsung Galaxy Tablet instead of using spotlight. So I guess I didn't clarify more that I had more references of females; it's just the imgur album is what I wanted to use so you guys can see what I was mainly focusing on, and the other references would be major supplements. There's at least 92 images I'm using mostly fixated on the face, and a little on the body.


I had to bump the subdivision up a bit, but not too much, because using TrimDynamic at 524 poly, and even at 2k polys would shred up the model. Unless this is something that's supposed to happened to change my schemata on anatomy from the , I presumed using other brushes in supplement with TrimDynamic at 1-2 subdivisions higher wouldn't break the "your working at high-res" boundary. I know did brush -> samples -> Spotlight projection off.

Here are two turntables of subdivision 4 and 5 respectively:

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-3-Subdivision-Level-4-498000864

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-3-Subdivision-Level-5-498001503


I'll go back to see how I can modify things at certain angles, but just wanted to post the landmarks before I make a duplicate in case I mess it up. I'll add in the rest of the nose later on, and eventually the eyelids.


@panda,

I wanted to have the mouth opened up so I can close it later on after retopologizing the face again since I have intentions of animating the face. It wasn't the end all, be all position I had in mind. I figured it would be easier doing the opened position, and just using the move tool to close it rather than the other way around that I know is complicated in Zbrush.

But maybe I'll be enlightened on a method, but it's one that I've been looking for months.

BagelHero

When you're at the super low subdivs, you want to be using the move tool at default settings and the smooth tool at about 30-40 strength. Then you move up to higher ones, usewhatever is more comfortable to you, trim dynamic or hpolish or even spolish. Play around with tools if you want, there are good reasons for our suggestions but they're not gospel when it comes to "tools to use".

Additionally, you want to model with the mouth closed. More advanced users might split their sculpt into polygroups and sculpt the inside of the mouth at the same time, but... a generally recognized method is to sculpt with the mouth closed, and just add a mouth-bag/teeth/tongue etc in when you do the retopo. I think this would be easier to animate/achieve than mouth-default-open anyway.

Your sculpt is still a little puffy, I've done a paintover/liquify so you can see what's up.
Before

And after


Of course, the planes will get smoothed down a bit later, but... yeah. You've drawn on some of the planes, but you're not quite getting the forms right. Keep going!

Linkzelda41

Hpolish is going to be one of my favorite brushes now. I never knew I could be excited actually trying to mold this out. Thanks for offering the paintover, Bagelhero!

I'll definitely be utilizing that as one of my frequent references for females.


Here's a link to the turntable:

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-4-Turntable-Dmitrys-Fanart-498359982


I'll modify the nose and add in the eyelids once the foundations seem to be good to go.

BagelHero

Shaping up much better! The areas you could stand to focus on right now are the depth of the facial features (eyes could be a little further back, brow could be a teeny bit more forward) and maybe how far the edge of the eyes are from the side of the face in the front view. Glad to hear you're getting excited, that's exactly what you want. Remember to have fun and all that!

Keep it up.

Brian "Panda" Choi

I think there's a couple things you're not quite seeing, exaggerating, and accentuating. More specifically the silhouette that you need on your face profile, as well as certain planes.

When you're using trimDynamic or hPolish, cut in more than you're comfortable with Right now, it all still feels lumpy and unconfident.

Linkzelda41

Thanks for the markup, JadeEyePanda. I was thinking whether or not to cut in the area you've portrayed, or just define the jawline by cutting the area beyond it, so I went ahead and did the latter.

If it wasn't the latter, and I have pictures for it if you want to see the end result of cutting it in, the outline of the face wouldn't match the front view I used as a loose reference, and I would be pulling it out to conform to that anyway on a lower subdivision.

Lower subdivision: http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-6-Turntable-LoPoly-499075140

Higher subdivision: http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-6-Turntable-HiPoly-499075517

As for the profile, I realized the turntables I made now didn't involve the one where I tried to conform to the silhouette you suggested. Part of me was predisposed to stick to the original artwork, but I can modify the side view easily later on my days off work this week.

I wanted to add in the nostrils and eyelids, eyelashes, etc. later on, so it wasn't as if I completely forgotten the overall picture. :P

I just find using claytubes to create the eyelids, masking parts of it, moving it up to conform to the face, and dynameshing it would be easier than having to sculpt it in, and face a plethora of challenges in conforming to the eye shape; same with the nostrils, though I'm sure there may be edits for that anyway.


I know there's some gaps between the tip of the eyes, but when zooming this out when imagining the body, I hardly think it would be that detrimental. But I'll let that statement be free for destruction.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Your lower poly, and in effect your high poly, is stil lumpy and feels basically like your old WIP in terms of silhouette. Are you trying to make a copy of Bagel's paintover? Because right now it still feels like you're trying tos tick to your old guns, or making reasons for it.

As well, the jawline should reach the BOTTOM of the ear, right now it reaches behind it. Touch your own jaw line. Assuming everything is relatively where it should be, you'll notice the end position of the bone feature.

I'm going to say it again, you need to exaggerate past what you think looks good to get the silhouette features that's in Bagel's paintover.

You need to pull forard her lips a LOT more.

Her nose needs to be more upturned, the bridge of the nose more underswept and curvacious when it reaches the tip.

Where are the planes? We want to see sharp transitions, stop smoothing things out, it looks bad with the objective of making sure we're trying to nail the planes.

Noses are not cyinders with two balls on the side. Noses are triangles.






And for the sake of mental simplicity, delete your polypaint. We shouldn't touch that until your sculpt is close to done.

Keep pushing. Right now it feels like we're trying to kill your bad habits as an artist, so it might take a bit, but once you get a better understanding on how to start, your concerns start moving towards more advanced concerns.

BagelHero

This is looking tonnes better, so don't be discouraged. +1 to all Panda's comments, though, they're on the ball.

Particularly on the nostrils, if it helps any here's a gif of how I do it.

Linkzelda41

*gulp*


Lower subdivision:

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-7-Turntable-LoPoly-499330989

1 subdivision higher:

http://linkzelda41.deviantart.com/art/April-3D-Model-WIP-7-Turntable-HiPoly-499331297

Linkzelda41

I swear she's not going through chemotherapy; adding the hair later.

Bigger version


I'll turn off the polypaint if need be.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Why are her breasts so large? She's going to hurt her back severely.

Also, you need to carve more into your planar face. It's still so puffy. You need to cut into the sculpt, not slap on more volume to create mass. Would it help if we sent you an existing ZTool to explain what we're talking about?

What are you ultimately trying to make? Is this breast expansion fetishism?

Linkzelda41

Also, you need to carve more into your planar face. It's still so puffy. You need to cut into the sculpt, not slap on more volume to create mass. Would it help if we sent you an existing ZTool to explain what we're talking about?

Honestly, that would really help a lot for me to get what to conceptualize, because even though I can’t express how much time I invested trying to work this out, it’s been a nightmare lately for me. I keep pushing and pulling, pushing and pulling, trying to sharpen the edges more on the face to make it distinct, but I’m just incompetent in general in synching in the forms.

Even looking at references of multiple planar images of the face, and even having several videos that cover developing form, something is not clicking.

What are you ultimately trying to make? Is this breast expansion fetishism?

I’m not sure if Dmitrys into doing that stuff, but I’m not into that stuff. I know it’s easy to presume there has to be some underlying premise behind it all that could potentially lead to having an affinity for it, but I’m just doing something random. I’ve done worse than this, and I always do them with a neutral disposition, believe me when I say that. And of course, it says "fanart" in the thread, but that's just a subconscious habit of finding something to label, since there's tons of Aprils to filter out.

If I ever finish this sculpt, I’ll go for breast sizes that are actually physiologically compatible. Looking back at why I did this, I probably just did it to fill in the gap of being bored while trying to think of what to sculpt next. And to hopefully get some advice, which I've been getting more than I ever could anywhere else, and actually be serious in future sculpts; mostly ones related in my dreams (that are non-fetishism mind you).


But yes, if it’s possible to see a Ztool, that would be of great help.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Linkzelda41 wrote: »

Honestly, that would really help a lot for me to get what to conceptualize, because even though I can’t express how much time I invested trying to work this out, it’s been a nightmare lately for me. I keep pushing and pulling, pushing and pulling, trying to sharpen the edges more on the face to make it distinct, but I’m just incompetent in general in synching in the forms.

You shouldn't be conceptualizing at this point. You need to focus on replicating proven forms before you start flexing your muscles of creativity effectively.

Download this guy's Asaro head Ztool. Literally try to replicate it on your own. Ignore the lackadaisical designing of chaps and thongs, focus on making a good head. A formed, sound head. Stop being random. If you were mother nature and near eternal, feel free to be random, but it's a more effective use of your time if you at least attempt to have a specific vision instead of "something vaguely Dmitrys."

What about Dmitrys erotic art compelled you to try to make a character model that looked like something from his/her art?

http://adam-fisher.deviantart.com/art/Asaro-Head-Sculpt-Model-Download-340299173

Linkzelda41

There was a character model sheet he made that was non-erotic that caught my interest; it was similar to a space girl concept, and then I realized there were several people who tried making a 3D model of the concept (not the one I was trying to do in this thread). So to scavenge for something that wasn’t made already, and didn’t have misplaced private parts, this was the winner at the time. Surprisingly, the outfit was something I associated with the erotic art that was with the non-erotic art, and things just happened.

But your words ring true, and this attempt of mine is a clear testament that if I don’t have an experiential base of knowing the planar regions of the face, and sculpting it like second nature, I’m wasting my time finding excuses to do something that won’t really hold personal value to me. I’ll make a sketchbook, or whatever it’s called in the other section of the forums tomorrow, and set an initiative to have the Asaro’s head mastered several times. The excitement was developing experiential learning of trying to copy the form from Asaro, not the actual model of April itself.

And to make it clear, thank you very much for being honest in all you, and Bagelhero have expressed in this thread. The fact that you both responded, even when the premise behind the thread was vague in general, is something I don’t want to take for granted. So, I’ll be serious when I start a Sketchbook thread, and hopefully not let any advice go in vain.

I’ll see you soon, and you people are awesome.