MAX. Need help with UVs. Noob.

yogi

Greetings,

So, I have sword, made a picture for you to see the topology in case it makes a difference. The polygons that represent the edges of the blade and all the triangles you can see in the picture are not planar to the z axis.

I did planar z axis UV projection to all the polygons except for those which are parallel to the z axis.


Even though, the distortion is very little on the blade edges due to the little angle difference between the blade polygons, for the sake of my learning, I want the angled blade edges to become planar so that the texture distribution is even on all parts of the blade. I tried using seams and then peeling and the result is my problem, it did not work as I expected.


Also, I tried all of inbuilt mapping options, like the flatten mapping, but did not find the results... well... pleasing as the one given to me by the planar z mapping.

UPDATE: My peel worked when I selected only the parts I wanted to flatten, in this case, the angled blade edges of the sword, now the UVs for the sword edges are planar.

Memory

It's hard to tell from the screen shots which axis to planar from, but the sword seems pretty damn flat. You should just be able to use planar from whatever axis looks close to your first screen shot. If you need to texture the front and back differently from one another just select the edges where you want your seams, hit break, and then move the seperate uv shell island off of the first one.

You dont need any kind of peel for this in my opinion, there will be very little distortion from what I can see.

yogi

I added one more picture.

Yes, there is little distortion, but as I mentioned, for the sake of learning, I want to understand why peel did not work here.

Mark Dygert

Because peel is probably not the best way to handle that, or you used peel incorrectly. The 3dsmax help file (press F1) explains peel and gives good examples of how to use it.

It seems like the blade is fairly straightforward but the pommel/handle area is tripping you up because it has some thickness to it? You can planar map that from the side so it's a long thin strip. Maybe weld one side of the long strip to the sword, if it would get you some kind of advantage, less seams to deal with slightly smaller Texture Vert count or it packs better.

OR

You could select everything planar map it, select some edges, break and relax. This is probably the fastest way to do it, but the easiest to screw up.

yogi

I noticed that problems seem to be proportional to the size of the cluster for the operations. Like for example, if I did operations on big clusters: a) operations to the whole cluster b) operations to parts of the big cluster, the results from both a) and b) are lame, with a) being the worst.
While if I did a planar only of one polygon, the cutting edge, then used relax, and it seemed to work, because it increased in width, as it should, however as it increased in width it also decreased in length a little bit, which is bad because the real length was provided by the z projection, so rescaling comes into play. Also, flatten option works well too, but what it does is that it rescales the UV and lets say if I have a already a planar map of the whole cluster, then I need to rescale that UV to fit the whole thing myself. Peeling works best with only one polygon so far, but still it makes a strange little curve to the UV, which again, I must fix myself.

Thank you guys for replying. I believe that in this case I lack the detailed understanding of HOW do the operations work. Gonna keep experimenting and see which way is the best to achieve best precision.

yogi

I think I achieved my purpose by having all polygons subdivided into smaller UV clusters, then using flatten options on them and then stitching them up with scale and align options being ticked and bias set to 0.
Flatten gives me exact sizes while the stitching does the rescaling and positioning automatically for me, which is what I wanted - precision and no need for hand rescaling.

Gonna experiment to see if there are any other ways to have everything neatly done.

Memory

Ah, ok, your new picture explains the geo better. So you've given your handle thickness, no problem, you just need to select edges where your texture seam will be and use 'break' to create the seam. You'll want to place this where it makes the most sense, for this handle, probably a front and back. Although I feel like there are better ways to model that handle to better place your seams.

Then, if youre going to peel, you need to make further seams that will reduce the stress on the UV island. Think about how you would cut up the model for it to lay flat without any distortion and then peel will fork, but it's a bit of a learned thing to figure out where to make the best cuts.

Hope it helps.

yogi

Thank You. I am in the process of experimenting with peeling and will take your words of advice.

Mark Dygert

There are a lot of ways to tackle this but if you wanted to post the model, I wouldn't mind taking a crack at unwrapping it and doing a quick write up about what steps I took.

One thing you might want to experinment with is "quick Peel". You select some faces and hit the button. It will planar map and relax the results instantly. It can be a pretty good way to get.

The objects transform matrix also affects how the UV editor tools are implemented, so you might want to reset Transform and Scale (Command Panel > Hierarchy tab > Pivot > Reset). The TM scale is what typically affects it the most and that gets out of whack by scaling the object (instead of the sub-object pieces).

yogi

Mark Dygert wrote: »

There are a lot of ways to tackle this but if you wanted to post the model, I wouldn't mind taking a crack at unwrapping it and doing a quick write up about what steps I took.

One thing you might want to experinment with is "quick Peel". You select some faces and hit the button. It will planar map and relax the results instantly. It can be a pretty good way to get.

The objects transform matrix also affects how the UV editor tools are implemented, so you might want to reset Transform and Scale (Command Panel > Hierarchy tab > Pivot > Reset). The TM scale is what typically affects it the most and that gets out of whack by scaling the object (instead of the sub-object pieces).

Oh yes, I used quick peel and peel, but the results were the same with either - not good. So far what peel and quick peel did for me:

1) It incorrectly reshaped perfectly fine UVs
2) UVs never turn out well, except for one time when I chose only one polygon before applying any kind of mapping.

My best, well, technically speaking, perfect results were achieved when I used flatten mapping and then used stitching, as I mentioned above.

I am aware of my incompetence and possible inability to use the tools incorrectly not to mention the fact that due to my circumstances at the present time I did not get much time to play with peeling a lot today, therefore it would be nice to have my model to be "UV'ed" by You. But I am not sure how do I post the model for You as it is late right now here where I live and I am afraid I wont to be doing so today. If Your kind heart is willing to volunteer to help this noob some other time, please point me how should the model reach You.

yogi

I played with the peeling functions today and the results were no good at all. The way it works was completely unpredictable, same things happened as yesterday. Seams made no difference either. Also,

1) 3ds Max peel tutorial was made with organic shapes.

2) Also, peel function is Least squares conformal map (LSCM) which is a 2D representation of a 3D shape created using the Least Squares Conformal Mapping Method. Didn't bother to understand the math(not that I could, lol).

My experiments with peel and the info above lead me to an assumption that peel is not even meant for planar shapes because, like I mentioned before, it reshaped completely perfect UVs for me.

So I might stop at that and try to understand peel some other time with different models.

However, if anyone is aware of how one can receive good UV results using peel on my model, I'd be interested to find out how is it made possible.

Mark Dygert

There are a bunch of ways to unwrap this but here is the most straightforward way I could think of. I agree with the help file that peel is best suited for organic shapes and even then I tend to ignore it and planar map the whole thing, create seams and relax chunks.

Apply symmetry to get the full sword.
• Turn on select by angle, set it to 45 degrees.
• Select top of sword, hit quick planar. Do the same to the bottom.
• Select the sides of the pommel and do a quick planar, then relax and "Reshape Element: straighten Selection", then weld several of the stirps together.
• Grab the handle and do a cylinder unwrap, relax and straighten as necessary.
• Run: Arrange Elements: Rescale Elements.
• Pack the pieces by hand, stretch them to fill the box.
• Apply a 512x256 bitmap to the diffuse slot of the sword material.
• Back in the UVW editor, in the upper right corner reset the texture list then pick your diffuse texture.
• Tools: Render UVW Template.
• Done.

Model: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2336353/SwordUnwrap.obj

yogi

Thanks a lot, Mark. It's funny how many useful tools I didn't use and got to know about them by your example.