Blizzard inspired WIP props/assets

tonyd927

Here I will dump some props and other assets that are "Blizzard inspired" I've never done textures or modeling like this so this is something totally new for me.

Here is a shield I made, inspired by the great work of Jeff Parrott (his portfolio: http://www.environmentartist.com/)

I know I'm not even close to his skill level but I thought I'd give hand painted textures a try

It has 200 polys and will be using a 512 map.



My texture map



What do you guys think?
Comments/ Crits?

I plan on making a sword, a cottage of some sort, maybe a knight.
I want to enter the Blizzard and or/ Riot art contests with these assets, but I wanna get some critiques first.

Thanks!

turpedo

Hey Tony,

I think this is cool for your first time working in this style. The things that stick out to me is the lack of lighting and material definition.

It looks like you have some lighting painted onto the gem in the center, but other than that everything feels kind of flat and unlit. Try using some overlays to really push the forms of the shield. What faces the lightsource should be brighter and what faces away from it should be darker? Break the shield down planarly will help a lot when texturing.

Everything feels like it is made out of the same material besides the gem. If the grey outer ring is metal, it should be made darker with highlights forming where the light source hits it. For example if the light source is coming from the top right, then the spec hit should be on the top right of the shield. You could also add some color to your metal too, it feels really greyscale.

Is the metal trim suppose to be overlapping the wood? If so use a multiply/overlay layer to paint some AO around intersections so show that overlapping. It will build more depth into the shield. That also applies to where the gem sits on the wood and where the handle meets the back. Anywhere you have intersecting and overlapping push it with AO but make sure not to go too heavy on it.

The last thing I noticed is that the wood detailing is very uniform across each plank. You should pick places to put micro details and then subtlety blend out details to give the eye some rest areas.

Hope this helps man, look forward to seeing the next pass!

tonyd927

Thanks for your input turpedo, really great input!
I have decided to put this project aside (I will come back to it later ;-) )to follow a tutorial from 3D Motive that is going quite smoothly so far. It's both challenging and fun but this is my progress so far:

Im still learning how to add details to the metallic parts for more material definition.
Gold parts are quite challenging to paint, I've redone the hilt like 5 times so far today haha.

I remodeled the sword to practice modeling for this art style and that only took about 25 minutes to do.
So far I am about 2 hours into texturing.
I am trying to speed up my workflow as well.
Any comments/ crits?

AlexCatMasterSupreme

Your hand painted stuff feels too flat, you should try painting in more strong highlights.

nastobi123

In terms of colour, this is my advice.

Also, misspelled words.

tonyd927

AlexCatMasterSupreme wrote: »

Your hand painted stuff feels too flat, you should try painting in more strong highlights.

hmm, Ill give that a shot. The tutorial didnt really push the highlights too much

EDIT: Started pushing the highlights and adding more browns/blues to the blade..
I feel like I'm not making any progress lol

tonyd927

any other input?

tonyd927

anymore crits...?

Bartalon

It looks like you have viewport shading on which generates artifical shadows on your model. I would recommend working on your model while in a flat-shaded view to really see where you need to improve your textures.

Right now, a lot of your materials lack definition. The metal bits need to have more than just a white highlight running along the edges; you have to think about how the light will bounce off surfaces, how it occludes in corners, and any color that is received by other nearby materials (mostly for metals).

The cloth around your grip has some nice direction in it, but it still lacks some depth that you could get by painting in wrinkles.

Generally, hand painted weapons tend to have a top-down light painted into the diffuse, so everything facing upward would be brighter than everything facing downward. You seem to have this already in a few spots, but it hasn't been executed throughout all the elements of the sword. It's a little hard to tell with the viewport shadows.

It may also help you paint interesting textures by keeping in mind the object's history and function. Where has it been? How old is it? Where are the high-use areas? What kind of environment would it be found in?

Brian "Panda" Choi

tony, are you using existing reference while painting this?

Besides just trying to photocopy the texturing done by existing WoW weapons, specifically this3Dmotive tutorial weapon, as a polishing process tip:

What you can do to push the overall quality of the texture is to apply in subtle, offcolor hues (like greens where there is a local color of red). What this should theoretically do is add a better body to the texture overall. You avoid a flat looking sword.

See if my old WoW Student Art Contest thread helps at all with texturing. You can see how it goes from ehh to decent: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113859

tonyd927

Thanks guys..
I guess Im just really having trouble with strokes, values, colors, pen pressure...everything haha
After painting the blade I realize it's all one color and very boring. I dont understand how to make it POP!
The guy doing the 3d motive tutorial makes it look too easy and Im just getting frustrated
I cant seem to get what's in my head, to the screen

Brian "Panda" Choi

tony, do you sketch often? Or do master studies of existing paintings?

tonyd927

JadeEyePanda wrote: »

tony, do you sketch often? Or do master studies of existing paintings?

I wish. I work two jobs and go to school full time, barely time to even do this..

Brian "Panda" Choi

Is it safe to assume you get back, and IF there's free time, it's wiser to sleep than to do more work?

tonyd927

JadeEyePanda wrote: »

Is it safe to assume you get back, and IF there's free time, it's wiser to sleep than to do more work?

Haha, I wish man. Im almost 26 and feel like I'm turning 50. I work at a warehouse and at my school, nothing art related at all
By the time I get home and cook it's bed time haha

anywho,
here's my recent work on this project, almost satisfied with it.

What do you guys think?

Neox

the blade is coming along nicely, but what kind of material is the yellow stuff? find out what defines this material you are after and you should see what needs to be done.right now it feels like some yellow stone. same with the crystal, whats that? red rubber with wear on the edges?

tonyd927

Neox wrote: »

the blade is coming along nicely, but what kind of material is the yellow stuff? find out what defines this material you are after and you should see what needs to be done.right now it feels like some yellow stone. same with the crystal, whats that? red rubber with wear on the edges?

I was aiming for a cartoonish gold or brass Guess i fudged up. Back to the drawing board!

Dennispls

I would tone down the highlights on the blade's edges and on the blue-ish part. The contrast between the darker parts is too high at the moment. At the top of the blade you could make a highlight near the first chip to simulate that area catching the most light. Right now the whole area is evenly lit. I do like how sharp your chips look. Well done.

Jeff Parrott

Just saw this thread. Super cool man! Very flattered that you're working off that shield I did. Definitely tackling the sword is a good start though. Think about learning a new style or creating art like leveling up in a RPG. Make low level stuff (crates, tables, doors, swords, guns, etc) then build up to over the top stuff. You're doing that part really well. Take your time with this too. Get it right then move on. Speed will come later.

I hope you don't mind but I did a really fast paintover (of an older image I guess) with some notes. I'll try to explain but any questions just ask.

-Work large details in then move to medium details then small. This also holds true for your brush size. You're painting with a really small brush. When I did your paintover I made marks for the size of the brushes I was using. I could have went larger at first though. Don't worry about the nicks and scratches till you have the materials reading well and forms in place.

-With this style you have to paint in the lighting as well. So things up top (or closer light sources) will be brighter.

- Don't use default shading. In Maya this would be Use No Lights option.

-Just because something has a highlight doesn't mean that it's a white highlight. Look up reference online and mimic that. It will really help and make your work believable.



Good start to this though. Can't wait to see this thread develop over time.

Also if you're getting into this style look at Kelvin's gumroad tutorial on 3D Coat painting a weapon. It's a similar workflow to this but using 3D Coat. The principles apply. https://gumroad.com/turpedo

tonyd927

Jeff Parrott wrote: »

Just saw this thread. Super cool man! Very flattered that you're working off that shield I did. Definitely tackling the sword is a good start though. Think about learning a new style or creating art like leveling up in a RPG. Make low level stuff (crates, tables, doors, swords, guns, etc) then build up to over the top stuff. You're doing that part really well. Take your time with this too. Get it right then move on. Speed will come later.

I hope you don't mind but I did a really fast paintover (of an older image I guess) with some notes. I'll try to explain but any questions just ask.

-Work large details in then move to medium details then small. This also holds true for your brush size. You're painting with a really small brush. When I did your paintover I made marks for the size of the brushes I was using. I could have went larger at first though. Don't worry about the nicks and scratches till you have the materials reading well and forms in place.

-With this style you have to paint in the lighting as well. So things up top (or closer light sources) will be brighter.

- Don't use default shading. In Maya this would be Use No Lights option.

-Just because something has a highlight doesn't mean that it's a white highlight. Look up reference online and mimic that. It will really help and make your work believable.


Good start to this though. Can't wait to see this thread develop over time.

Also if you're getting into this style look at Kelvin's gumroad tutorial on 3D Coat painting a weapon. It's a similar workflow to this but using 3D Coat. The principles apply. https://gumroad.com/turpedo

Thank you so much! Great tutorial and help man!

tonyd927

So I've put the tutorial aside, 1 week later and I feel I've learned little or nothing lol
anywho, cant use this in my portfolio because it's based on a tutorial so I've started over making my own concept:

NOTE: Please ignore the handle and central section, I havent begun painting those.

Before I move on and waste another week going in circles, how does this look?




Tyson Murphy states in his tutorial if you cant get your base colors and forms correct, no amount of details will make it better. That's a nice way of saying..damn I suck lol.

tonyd927

Put aside sword modeling for now to try something different.

I made this tank in about 45 minutes and this is about 2 hour's worth of hand painted textures

Crits?
(didn't want to make a new thread for this)

Brian "Panda" Choi

Did you look at existing reference for Sherman tanks?

tonyd927

JadeEyePanda wrote: »

Did you look at existing reference for Sherman tanks?

It's a concept but yes I have, the turret is more like a sherman but the bottom part is similar to a tiger tank

Brian "Panda" Choi

Good job on interpreting the shape! Did you try emulating the way the real life surfaces of the tanks look and translating it into a handpainted look?

tonyd927

JadeEyePanda wrote: »

I definitely see the shape, but did you try emulating the way the real life surfaces of the tanks look and translating it into a handpainted look?

In that process now, kinda wanted this to have a toy-ish look as well but I still want the metallic highlights as if it were metal.
I think I did an okay job at the little visor and the treads are coming along really great so far.

I wanted something like this but plastic looks kinda dull, so I wanted to mix the plastic with the metallic shimmer

Brian "Panda" Choi

Well, it's going to be hard since Sherman tanks aren't very shiny. They have a very matte look, probably due to their consistent paint jobs.

If you want a toy look, there's no better reference I feel than the Imperial Guard models from Warhammer 40K.

https://www.google.com/search?q=imperial+guard+baneblade&rlz=1C1GIWA_enUS570US570&espv=2&biw=1395&bih=659&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=K2VMVLrHIcuQigKR-oDwAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=rhbNGwfkDg1r5M%253A%3BekPK2IEznsaubM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ifelix.net%252Fgamingblog%252Fwp-content%252Fimg_1567.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ifelix.net%252Fgamingblog%252F%253Fp%253D960%3B450%3B370

Just replicate what you see, basically.

Your tank in question could use more greebles and Not-green hues like subtle browns splashed in where dirt and mud would probably hit if it as being driven, etc.

tonyd927

JadeEyePanda wrote: »

Well, it's going to be hard since Sherman tanks aren't very shiny. They have a very matte look, probably due to their consistent paint jobs.

If you want a toy look, there's no better reference I feel than the Imperial Guard models from Warhammer 40K.


Just replicate what you see, basically.

Your tank in question could use more greebles and Not-green hues like subtle browns splashed in where dirt and mud would probably hit if it as being driven, etc.

Great references! Thank you for this! I'll keep posting my progression

tonyd927

When I import this into marmoset, it's very flat. Any way I can improve the specularity? (like a shiny plastic)

Jeff Parrott

You're all over the place with stuff. Focus on the weapon tutorial. Do that. Don't expect to put it on your portfolio. Expect to get knowledge from it that you can apply to future projects. Or go through the tutorial with your dual side knife thing instead of the sword. It seems like you're trying to do too much and nothing it reading that you're spending the time and effort on a single piece. For personal stuff I spend multiple weekends on 1 prop. I like to experiment with different methods and fail. You're just starting out so it's a good time to try methods and learn new things.

Focus on finishing stuff too! Finish one of these projects before moving on. For stylized stuff don't worry about Marmoset till later. Just show off using sketchfab or Use No Lights/Fullbright.

tonyd927

Is there any way to render in "flat shaded" mode like in 3DS max but in marmoset?

Marmoset seems to render the hard edges, I dont want any hard edges, I like the cartoonish look of the flat shaded viewport. I also want some flat specularity, like plastic looking pieces.

Here's what I did to the tank, I think it looks okay but that's just me




I baked out an AO using a highpoly and handpainted all the details

Neox

what kind of difference would you expect between flatshaded mode in max and marmoset? it's flatshaded, it will look pretty much the same.

Spoon

@ Neox, Maybe I am just equally newb (very likely), but I cant get my marmoset to show a flat shaded model that looks like it does in any other app. the model looks the same across apps, until it hits marm, even turning everything off with unlit albedo.
Are we doing something wrong?

Brian "Panda" Choi

The hard edges you are speaking about are perhaps the Low Polygon Normals (yup, even low poly normals affect the normals you bake out from the high poly). See what softened and hardened (normal wise) on your low poly.

Nosslak

Are you setting the materials Diffusion to 'Unlit' and Reflectivity to 'None'? That should be all you need to do get an unlit render like in Max. You won't get the background gradient but you can just add that in Photoshop if you really want it.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Bake in more lighting into the tank texture. Imagine there's a point light above the tank, and paint the textures in accordingly. I'd encourage to do just a black and white painting on a separate layer over the texture to do a nondestructive test.

tonyd927

quick question,
I uvw mapped the treads on the tank to be on a separate texture map.
When I import the tank into marmoset and I apply the tanks material to the tank it applies to the treads as well.
Is there away to import 2 texture maps for 2 elements on a model?

Brian "Panda" Choi

In Marmoset, if you exported out the scene with separate mesh groups, it should show up cascaded as a list. Choose your specific mesh in that list and apply the material you want.

Btw, with something handpainted like this, I don't think there's a need to do two materials. You should be able to get it all onto one you UV sheet.

tonyd927

JadeEyePanda wrote: »

In Marmoset, if you exported out the scene with separate mesh groups, it should show up cascaded as a list. Choose your specific mesh in that list and apply the material you want.

Btw, with something handpainted like this, I don't think there's a need to do two materials. You should be able to get it all onto one you UV sheet.

Thanks! I put it on 2 because I wanted the tread texture to be animated..didnt know I could do that on one map

Here's my progress so far. Rendered using 3ds max mental ray

MattyWS

tonyd927 wrote: »

Thanks! I put it on 2 because I wanted the tread texture to be animated..didnt know I could do that on one map

Here's my progress so far. Rendered using 3ds max mental ray

If you put the treads in the textures going from one end of the texture to the other, in Unity (for example) you can set up two materials and just pan the one material that's applied to the treads for animation. This means the treads can still take up a band of space in the whole texture for the tank and still be animated. I don't know about other engines though. Either way, one texture is used and two materials as opposed to two textures and two materials.

Hope this makes sense!

carlobarley

aw, u should have finished the 3dmotive tyson murphy tutorial sword first and getting that same exact quality before moving on to another project.

tonyd927

carlobarley wrote: »

aw, u should have finished the 3dmotive tyson murphy tutorial sword first and getting that same exact quality before moving on to another project.

I am going to go back to this. I just wanted to experiment and have a little fun first at trying out hand painted stuff