All of the time, if you ever think there's nothing to learn or you aren't always thinking there's always someone that's better than you at what you do, where's the room for progress?
It's interesting to see (some of) the professionals in this thread have a fairly laid back attitude. Kind of just like "make what you want to make, it's art, it should be fun".
It's interesting to see (some of) the professionals in this thread have a fairly laid back attitude. Kind of just like "make what you want to make, it's art, it should be fun".
Well it also needs to be a job
Exactly, and 6 months after graduation I have alot of loans to pay back, so is my art going to do that? Probably not.
You have this idea in your head of what the perfect piece is, you've seen amazing art and you ask "why am I not there yet?"... If that is how you think and feel then, no, you WILL NEVER catch up. Because there will always be a piece that you are envious of, or a critical eye cast to your own work.
Think about it. If you ever got to the top of art mountain, and there you sat, the sage of all art, that'd freakin suck. You wouldn't enjoy beautiful art because you would be so arrogant that you could do better.
And if you ever stopped being critical of your own work, you would never better yourself.
Point is, you are right where you are supposed to be young grasshopper
It's interesting to see (some of) the professionals in this thread have a fairly laid back attitude. Kind of just like "make what you want to make, it's art, it should be fun".
Well it also needs to be a job
haha, yeah I remember this advice. It's meant well but only applies for your personal work. Yet with an 8 hour job you still need to squeeze out something useful for your future career. I used to work on web pages, logos, small 3D ads for local companies and some low level game art before getting my first studio gig.
What really helped me was that I could enjoy the process of creating art, regardless of the subject matter it dealt with. If you're only happy when you model e.g. Orcs then you'll have a hard time, unless you ever end up at Blizzard modeling Orcs
Try find joy in the activity itself, and then give yourself a challenge. See it as an opportunity to learn, not just some boring thing you have to do to make money. Develop a pride in your work, whatever it may be. Then use whatever you learn in your personal art, on which you work on the weekends or evenings. See your "boring" day job as training and preparation for your work on your folio. Learn about organizing your work, workflows, tools, paying attention to details and anything that can help you to make your personal work better.
I don't really want to go back to my freelancer days, but it wasn't totally wasted time.
Think about it. If you ever got to the top of art mountain, and there you sat, the sage of all art, that'd freakin suck. You wouldn't enjoy beautiful art because you would be so arrogant that you could do better.
All lies! Everyone knows there is an infinite supply of free coffee and double rainbows on top of art mountain!
Yeah I just got scolded because I was " playing around with shaders" ....
Let me put it from this point of view:
I had always an engineering view of things before this, but even after getting to 3D art this stll weighs heavily over me.
" If you can not measure something, it does not exist" Surely you have heard of that.
" You can not manage what you can't measure" . Another saying that is well known.
As someone who has always lived by with these two I am beyond confused in this line of work.
You can have polycounts, texture sizes, bone numbers. But these are not considered "art" .
And even when you build something half of the people will say that it sucks while the other half will say it rocks.
Even when you make something "you" like, highly possible it will not be acclaimed so by " someone else" .
SO what makes your point of view valid and mine obsolete ?
Can we pit each others' art and see which performs better under certain conditions ? Certainly NOT. Because that is science and engineering, not art.
These last couple of months I really feel stupified by people's reactions. I have believe in my stubbornness that I will make it somehow but still it is beyond comprehension... and that annoys the hell out of me.
WOW! That was a lot of steam I just put out. Sorry for the nagging. I kinda had to.
I'm still pretty new. I've been working a small studio job as a 3D generalist for about a year and a half, and transitioned from a non-game-related 2D illustration background (and before that, a pre-K teacher). It was daunting wanting to do this at first, especially seeing some of the amazing artists here, some not even out of high school. But community and instruction here has been amazing. I've been constantly humbled as I've reached out to artists I greatly admire and been replied to with generous and encouraging responses. Keep working at it, even if it feels like a slow march, and keep sharing here!
From what I'm garnering from the one post you had in your Blizzard thread, your life right now, just time wise, doesn't prioritize art, because you're working two jobs and going to school.
That in and of itself is respectable and a challenge I can only imagine shouldering, personally. And if this has been happening for years, to me that explains why progress is slow. I wouldn't personally expect someone doing that to burn so much of their lives at the altar of art without significance sacrifice.
The easy answer is to keep working, but I have to admit, the small decisions one makes each day or week matters, I believe.
Case in point:
My last 4 years at college could have been spent really focusing on finding the love of my life, really expanding my singing skills in acapella, do really awesome strong drugs, read to little kids nearby at the USC-sponsored LAUSD school, but I didn't.
I sacrificed my hours singificantly focused on game development, and game art. This means if I got back from class, with 8 hours left, I decided to NOT eat out and actually just stay home and continue working on projects or w/e game I was working on. It was sacrificed hours here and there, which add up of course.
But that meant I didn't spent time dating. That meant I didn't spend time becoming a recovering drug addict so I could help others beat substance abuse. That meant I didn't make additional friends in other circles. (Right now, most of my friends are either church-related or game-dev related).
The little decisions add up, but you inevitably sacrifice something. Just depends what you sacrifice.
"You only have 24 hours in a day." - my mom
Once again though, given your current ebb and flow in life, I can't begin to understand how challenging it is at this time.
On the technical end of things:
Just modeling doesn't make you better. You need to be focused on systematically learning areas of foundational art like figure drawing, anatomy, values, color theory, etc.
And this means you are sketching, drawing, etc. Yes, there are artists who don't draw or paint at all who model like a BAMF, but imagine how much more quality they can attain IF they were sketching and drawing as a discipline.
You don't need to pay for classes, even. You just have to be focused about what you're drawing or painting mostly. Draw with a purpose in mind, such as "I need to get better at hand." so you draw 50 hands in an evening from reference.
This won't immediately change things, but it's more about the bleed-effect than 1-to-1 effects. Overtime, your final deliverable work becomes better because you pick up bits and bobs from your foundational work, which makes your main work look better.
Yeah I just got scolded because I was " playing around with shaders" ....
Let me put it from this point of view:
I had always an engineering view of things before this, but even after getting to 3D art this stll weighs heavily over me.
" If you can not measure something, it does not exist" Surely you have heard of that.
" You can not manage what you can't measure" . Another saying that is well known.
As someone who has always lived by with these two I am beyond confused in this line of work.
You can have polycounts, texture sizes, bone numbers. But these are not considered "art" .
And even when you build something half of the people will say that it sucks while the other half will say it rocks.
Even when you make something "you" like, highly possible it will not be acclaimed so by " someone else" .
SO what makes your point of view valid and mine obsolete ?
i find it helpful to remember that we are all doing this to make money. being preoccupied with lofty issues like subjectivity and expression is a very academic thought process IMO, not so much a professional one. the nature of improving at this job is making your art more appealing to more people than it used to be. that's the criteria you measure. it's not like measuring change in temperature over time but it's still pseudo-scientific if you want to look at it like that.
Hey, I just decided to focus on 3d art out of the blue so at least you're ahead of me. I wasn't getting anywhere programming and 3d art seems more fun. One day I will work at a bigger studio, even if it's 5 years from now I will do it.
i find it helpful to remember that we are all doing this to make money. being preoccupied with lofty issues like subjectivity and expression is a very academic thought process IMO, not so much a professional one. the nature of improving at this job is making your art more appealing to more people than it used to be. that's the criteria you measure. it's not like measuring change in temperature over time but it's still pseudo-scientific if you want to look at it like that.
Thanks mate. I guess pseude-scientific is much better than unknown at this point.
Hey, I just decided to focus on 3d art out of the blue so at least you're ahead of me. I wasn't getting anywhere programming and 3d art seems more fun. One day I will work at a bigger studio, even if it's 5 years from now I will do it.
And I was just thinking the other way around
You know what, let's make a game together ! I will program and you will model
Will be a hit for sure
I get this feeling a lot in any kind of art, especially because I'm not an artist by trade and I don't really like doing it. It seems like everyone who does good art started doing it when they were kids or teenagers and I'm lagging way behind since I just started working on my art skills this year.
I also think that it's kind of self-defeating to compare yourself to other people. Like, saying "I want to draw like that" or "I like that style" and trying to emulate it isn't bad, but saying "I'm not as good as X" isn't very helpful. It may be true, but how good or bad other people are at art has no bearing on you at the moment.
I get this feeling a lot in any kind of art, especially because I'm not an artist by trade and I don't really like doing it.
Hmm, so it's just your temporary job? I hope it's not rude to ask, what type of art do you do? Or are you a programmer/tech-art maybe?
I agree with the rest of your post. It's definitely like that... Other people's successes should'nt make you any difference, other than inspiring you.
Plus, not everything about people is comparable, even if it would make HRs' job easier
I don't feel like I won't catch up, but I definitely feel like my work is severely inadequate when looking at other peers in the industry.
My main problem is that I get discouraged at home, and usually end up not working on personal stuff. At the office, I have clearly defined goals and I can do that well. Going home I just end up looking at other artist's work and go "Yep, fuck it" and close the apps down. Makes it hard to grow faster.
Like others have said, it's best to just post on here and get feedback. Polycount is where I got my education, over 14yrs ago. There is a wealth of knowledge out there now, compared to when I was starting out. Just keep at it.
I'd like to watch such Twitch channels too.
Nice analogy with sports / multiplayer. It's useful to look at our from a general perspective sometimes. Not just art,artists,artistic as if we were so special.
Joshua: Recently I see more experienced developers forming indie teams after hours. It surely provides a work-like environment (peers, goals etc, feeling of importance of the work). Still, it requires to choose people carefully. It's also a ton of work to do (there is no such thing like a small game), which discourages experimenting. You have to go fast. I do after-hours-indie sometimes, but in team of 2 or 3, no more.
Replies
It's interesting to see (some of) the professionals in this thread have a fairly laid back attitude. Kind of just like "make what you want to make, it's art, it should be fun".
Well it also needs to be a job
Saw Key & Peele skit, inspired to make up same nonsense to confuse other forum dudes.
Uh yeah, all the time, constantly and forever. Just helps me keep pushing to try and be better by seeing so many more talented people out there
Exactly, and 6 months after graduation I have alot of loans to pay back, so is my art going to do that? Probably not.
Think about it. If you ever got to the top of art mountain, and there you sat, the sage of all art, that'd freakin suck. You wouldn't enjoy beautiful art because you would be so arrogant that you could do better.
And if you ever stopped being critical of your own work, you would never better yourself.
Point is, you are right where you are supposed to be young grasshopper
haha, yeah I remember this advice. It's meant well but only applies for your personal work. Yet with an 8 hour job you still need to squeeze out something useful for your future career. I used to work on web pages, logos, small 3D ads for local companies and some low level game art before getting my first studio gig.
What really helped me was that I could enjoy the process of creating art, regardless of the subject matter it dealt with. If you're only happy when you model e.g. Orcs then you'll have a hard time, unless you ever end up at Blizzard modeling Orcs
Try find joy in the activity itself, and then give yourself a challenge. See it as an opportunity to learn, not just some boring thing you have to do to make money. Develop a pride in your work, whatever it may be. Then use whatever you learn in your personal art, on which you work on the weekends or evenings. See your "boring" day job as training and preparation for your work on your folio. Learn about organizing your work, workflows, tools, paying attention to details and anything that can help you to make your personal work better.
I don't really want to go back to my freelancer days, but it wasn't totally wasted time.
All lies! Everyone knows there is an infinite supply of free coffee and double rainbows on top of art mountain!
Let me put it from this point of view:
I had always an engineering view of things before this, but even after getting to 3D art this stll weighs heavily over me.
" If you can not measure something, it does not exist" Surely you have heard of that.
" You can not manage what you can't measure" . Another saying that is well known.
As someone who has always lived by with these two I am beyond confused in this line of work.
You can have polycounts, texture sizes, bone numbers. But these are not considered "art" .
And even when you build something half of the people will say that it sucks while the other half will say it rocks.
Even when you make something "you" like, highly possible it will not be acclaimed so by " someone else" .
SO what makes your point of view valid and mine obsolete ?
Can we pit each others' art and see which performs better under certain conditions ? Certainly NOT. Because that is science and engineering, not art.
These last couple of months I really feel stupified by people's reactions. I have believe in my stubbornness that I will make it somehow but still it is beyond comprehension... and that annoys the hell out of me.
WOW! That was a lot of steam I just put out. Sorry for the nagging. I kinda had to.
Now back to sculpting
From what I'm garnering from the one post you had in your Blizzard thread, your life right now, just time wise, doesn't prioritize art, because you're working two jobs and going to school.
That in and of itself is respectable and a challenge I can only imagine shouldering, personally. And if this has been happening for years, to me that explains why progress is slow. I wouldn't personally expect someone doing that to burn so much of their lives at the altar of art without significance sacrifice.
The easy answer is to keep working, but I have to admit, the small decisions one makes each day or week matters, I believe.
Case in point:
My last 4 years at college could have been spent really focusing on finding the love of my life, really expanding my singing skills in acapella, do really awesome strong drugs, read to little kids nearby at the USC-sponsored LAUSD school, but I didn't.
I sacrificed my hours singificantly focused on game development, and game art. This means if I got back from class, with 8 hours left, I decided to NOT eat out and actually just stay home and continue working on projects or w/e game I was working on. It was sacrificed hours here and there, which add up of course.
But that meant I didn't spent time dating. That meant I didn't spend time becoming a recovering drug addict so I could help others beat substance abuse. That meant I didn't make additional friends in other circles. (Right now, most of my friends are either church-related or game-dev related).
The little decisions add up, but you inevitably sacrifice something. Just depends what you sacrifice.
"You only have 24 hours in a day." - my mom
Once again though, given your current ebb and flow in life, I can't begin to understand how challenging it is at this time.
On the technical end of things:
Just modeling doesn't make you better. You need to be focused on systematically learning areas of foundational art like figure drawing, anatomy, values, color theory, etc.
And this means you are sketching, drawing, etc. Yes, there are artists who don't draw or paint at all who model like a BAMF, but imagine how much more quality they can attain IF they were sketching and drawing as a discipline.
You don't need to pay for classes, even. You just have to be focused about what you're drawing or painting mostly. Draw with a purpose in mind, such as "I need to get better at hand." so you draw 50 hands in an evening from reference.
This won't immediately change things, but it's more about the bleed-effect than 1-to-1 effects. Overtime, your final deliverable work becomes better because you pick up bits and bobs from your foundational work, which makes your main work look better.
i find it helpful to remember that we are all doing this to make money. being preoccupied with lofty issues like subjectivity and expression is a very academic thought process IMO, not so much a professional one. the nature of improving at this job is making your art more appealing to more people than it used to be. that's the criteria you measure. it's not like measuring change in temperature over time but it's still pseudo-scientific if you want to look at it like that.
Thanks mate. I guess pseude-scientific is much better than unknown at this point.
And I was just thinking the other way around
You know what, let's make a game together ! I will program and you will model
Will be a hit for sure
I also think that it's kind of self-defeating to compare yourself to other people. Like, saying "I want to draw like that" or "I like that style" and trying to emulate it isn't bad, but saying "I'm not as good as X" isn't very helpful. It may be true, but how good or bad other people are at art has no bearing on you at the moment.
Hmm, so it's just your temporary job? I hope it's not rude to ask, what type of art do you do? Or are you a programmer/tech-art maybe?
I agree with the rest of your post. It's definitely like that... Other people's successes should'nt make you any difference, other than inspiring you.
Plus, not everything about people is comparable, even if it would make HRs' job easier
My main problem is that I get discouraged at home, and usually end up not working on personal stuff. At the office, I have clearly defined goals and I can do that well. Going home I just end up looking at other artist's work and go "Yep, fuck it" and close the apps down. Makes it hard to grow faster.
Like others have said, it's best to just post on here and get feedback. Polycount is where I got my education, over 14yrs ago. There is a wealth of knowledge out there now, compared to when I was starting out. Just keep at it.
I'd like to watch such Twitch channels too.
Nice analogy with sports / multiplayer. It's useful to look at our from a general perspective sometimes. Not just art,artists,artistic as if we were so special.
Joshua: Recently I see more experienced developers forming indie teams after hours. It surely provides a work-like environment (peers, goals etc, feeling of importance of the work). Still, it requires to choose people carefully. It's also a ton of work to do (there is no such thing like a small game), which discourages experimenting. You have to go fast. I do after-hours-indie sometimes, but in team of 2 or 3, no more.