Seeking Professional Advice
polycounter lvl 7
Dear Polycount,
I'm seeking some advice from professionals or anyone with some experience in the game industry, particularly in environment art.
To get you up to speed, this is my current situation:
-Bachelor's degree in Computer Animation (learned the basics in 3ds Max)
-11 years of experience in arch-viz
-Currently employed full-time in NYC and living comfortably
-Miserable in the architecture industry
-Regretful of the choices I made to follow this career path
All my life I have been an avid gamer, but it was only about a year ago that I realized I'd like to work in the game industry as an environment artist. Not sure why it took me so long, but since then, I've dedicated my free time towards watching tutorials and creating personal projects to add to my portfolio. The problem is I don't have much to show for it since my full-time job takes up so much of my free time. (Portfolio here: http://www.rullidesign.com/)
I have applied to every game studio in or around NYC that I know of, plenty others on the west coast, and even a few abroad. I've had a few bites, but nothing promising.
So I am now asking the Polycount community for some sage advice.
Do I quit my job, take out loans and go back to school?
-I've heard about some fast-track programs like Gnomon or The Think Tank. Does anyone have experiences with these, good or bad?
Or, should I stay in my current situation, take my time, and wait until my portfolio is good enough to get the job I want?
Has anyone here been in a similar situation, particularly moving from architecture into environment art?
Any help/comments/insults are welcome. Thank you.
I'm seeking some advice from professionals or anyone with some experience in the game industry, particularly in environment art.
To get you up to speed, this is my current situation:
-Bachelor's degree in Computer Animation (learned the basics in 3ds Max)
-11 years of experience in arch-viz
-Currently employed full-time in NYC and living comfortably
-Miserable in the architecture industry
-Regretful of the choices I made to follow this career path
All my life I have been an avid gamer, but it was only about a year ago that I realized I'd like to work in the game industry as an environment artist. Not sure why it took me so long, but since then, I've dedicated my free time towards watching tutorials and creating personal projects to add to my portfolio. The problem is I don't have much to show for it since my full-time job takes up so much of my free time. (Portfolio here: http://www.rullidesign.com/)
I have applied to every game studio in or around NYC that I know of, plenty others on the west coast, and even a few abroad. I've had a few bites, but nothing promising.
So I am now asking the Polycount community for some sage advice.
Do I quit my job, take out loans and go back to school?
-I've heard about some fast-track programs like Gnomon or The Think Tank. Does anyone have experiences with these, good or bad?
Or, should I stay in my current situation, take my time, and wait until my portfolio is good enough to get the job I want?
Has anyone here been in a similar situation, particularly moving from architecture into environment art?
Any help/comments/insults are welcome. Thank you.
Replies
Time restraints, mostly. I started making an interior for that diner, but aborted the project since it wasn't really very interesting. I am currently working on another interior scene for UE4, but it's taking a while.
I built that sci-fi gun to impress a potential employer, but it hasn't really panned out.
Definitely worth looking into. Its cheaper than brick and mortar schools, and can be done while you have a full time job.
I do not know much on your personal side or your finances, but it sounds like you have settle, the only issue is that you hate the job. With that said, going to school to be an environment artist, is going to push you back.
You already gotten your hands wet, if you want to make the switch I suggest doing it through practicing in your personal time, you will still have your job and when you get good enough, you can decide which career to go after next.
Thanks for the tip. The CGWorkshops seem very reasonable. Not sure what times the courses are though. I've looked into the Gnomon online courses, but most are a little too late for me, being on the east coast. 10pm-1am. I might have to bite the bullet and do one of them though.
The online courses are good too if you want to continue education, but I wouldn't go back to school (like college/uni). A great majority of things you need to know/learn can be found online through tutorials and google as well.
My takeaway is that you need to spend more time with your sculpting tools (same here) to really nail those sculpted materials, and to consider revisiting the texture on that gun. That might be why employers are a bit wishy washy on your game art work, it's not very consistent. I have the same thing going on in my portfolio-I've been freelancing for a bit now and it has been good to me so far but it hasn't been a full replacement for a f/t job. Keep working but try to scale back the staying late if you can so you can focus on game art.
The industry is really harsh right now. You're almost there. Just keep pushing. Please don't ruin your future by going into debt.
So I say, keep up with your personal art in your free time and post diligently on polycount for feedback. Level up your portfolio and start another round of applying.
I wish it were that easy. My boss can be a tyrant when he's under pressure from a client. It's only occasionally though. But our daily shift is 8-6, and with a 2 hour+ round trip commute, it's really tough to get personal things done during the week.
But thank you for your comments on my textures, that's really helpful.
And thank you all for your encouragement. I think I will avoid a brick and mortar school for now, although the 4 month mentorship in Vancouver is tempting. I will definitely consider online courses through Gnomon or CGWorkshops. And of course I am going to continue with my personal projects in my spare time, which I will be posting to polycount.
But from my experience, I find the architecture industry to be sterile and soulless. Maybe if I worked in some kind of cutting edge, exciting design firm I'd be happier, but still, I'm just not crazy about architecture. It kind of bores me.
I've been into gaming for as long as I can remember, and I've always loved comic books and animation. I also practiced a lot of fine art in high school - painting, sculpting, pottery, figure drawing, etc. I even played D&D for a while in high school. So I think they game industry is a much better fit for me.
That being said, I can more easily relate to the people in the game industry. I rarely meet an architect or interior designer who gives a shit about the next Elder Scrolls. And I think that's important. The older I get the more I realize how important it is to have a job you enjoy going to, at least some of the time. Know what I mean?
I've worked in one of the fields only, so I can't give you a direct comparison. But personally I don't find arch-viz to be overly creative, as you're visualising someone else's design under specific guidelines. I'd have thought an environmental artist would have a lot more creative design input.
I'd really suggest honestly pinpointing what it is that you're unhappy about, and finding out if an enviro artist position would actually fix that, before putting all of the work in.
If you want to hop careers, do it now before family responsibilities start to take priorities. Everything, and I mean everything, changes when that part of your life starts to unfold. You don't want your career interfering or hindering your ability to enjoy your family.
It seems like there's a lot to consider. If you think you will be happier in the industry, then go for it. If you want to start a family soon, even better to just go for it now. If you are a happier person because of it, your future family will thank you.
Don't want to shutter dreams, but becareful with what you are getting into, the game industry shows no empathy. That is more true if you are artist, if you deeply want to make the switch still knowing, these issues:
1. Low pay, this will be an issue if you hope to start a family
2. Very high chance of unemployment, there is a reason why is has gotten the reputation as being volatile. Just heard a few friends got the boot at Turbine
3. Excessive work hours, you will crunch
Being said, if you heard it before, blah blah blah, and your deeply want to chase after it still knowing the risk, than prepare to dedicate your life towards grinding, I assume it is worth it if you enjoy it though. Best of luck
Thanks. I am aware of these things for ther most part, and i'm still willing to give it a shot. If it ends up being a mistake, I can always fall back on the arch-viz stuff. There's always jobs in that field around here. But there's no way I can move into a more senior position in the firm I'm with. Maybe if i worked for a visualization firm i could move up to an art director position. Even then, you might need some kind of architectural certification, which i have no desire to pursue.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a game studio, there are ways to move up eventually, correct? Start out as a jr artist, mid, senior, then maybe art director?
Just to throw in the other side of the opinions. Its an extremely competitive industry and attracts a lot of people into it, but if you commit and are passionate about what you do. But ultimately, good at what you have chosen to do. I believe you can do very well for yourself.
Starting salary in games is pretty bad, but isn't this the same in all professions? Once you work your way up into an intermediate position things start to become more comfortable, by the time your at a senior level you can start thinking about buying a house. If you continue to get better you could even work yourself into a lead or principle position.
With 5-10 years in the industry as an artist lots of gates start to open, you can do talks, freelance, sell tutorials etc... all making you more valuable and known to the wider industry. You could even teach. The problem is its very common for people to not stay in the industry longer than 3-5 years.
Don't get me wrong the industry has layoffs, but so do others. Long gone are the generations of labor workers who had the same job for decades, the world is a lot different place now.
I suppose I'm writing this to throw in another perspective. As long as your doing what your good at and have a passion for what you do, then onwards and upwards I say.
Any artist out their should watch these two videos to get some perspective.
http://filmmakeriq.com/2014/05/the-long-game-why-leonardo-davinci-was-no-genius/
A lot depends on the studio you work for. You either work on a project for 2 years than the studio does their usual restructuring and fires the employes. You also have the scenario in which you work for more renowned studios, but moving up is not in the near future, the positive about those studios is that a regular environment artist, can be considered a senior artist at many other places. From my experience moving up in large studios is very rare. Possible, but that is one of the last things managers care about.
Ever heard of MWD Field Engineers? They can start at 14K....a month.
$14,000....A....MONTH
You don't even need top grades from Engineering school (in some companies) since most if not of all your training you'll need for the position is on the job.
Schlumberger = $61,000
Baker Hughes = $43,000
Halliburton = $28,000
I find it hard to believe any profession would pay someone $120,000 straight out of college unless they where some kind of marvel genius, doctor, scientist etc... Even then I would argue they technically must have started there career very young to get to that point so early in life. The simple fact is it takes time to get good at something and people aren't going to pay you well unless your good at it.
But as much as this sounds like BS, I'm really not concerned with how much I'm making, as long as it's enough to get by, and I'm happy with what I'm doing for a living. I realize I will probably be taking a pay cut whenever I find something in the game industry.
Hard to believe if you dont have proper intel (of the where and the how).
You make it sound like Mission Impossible, I simply find $120,000 straight out of college hard to believe for any middle class American. Life has lead me to believe that if its to good to be true, it is.
I'm sure you have 0.05% of the American population that manage to get that well paying job, launched into those positions by already established wealth or may be they are just really awesome at what they do and started from a young age. But to think its common practice to walk out of college with 'intel' and land a $120,000 job is a stuff of pipe dreams in my opinion.
If anything that way of thinking only illustrates everything that is wrong with today's generation of kids. Which is some what illustrated by the videos I posted.
Anyway, back to the point. The Game Industry is a good profession to have and you can live happily and comfortably with a family.
Nothing personal against you, man
People outside of games found it hard to believe too when you told them (and refered them) to the facts of how much you can make making DOTA assets. I know it petered out eventually to 15k a month (if you're a hard worker and early participant).
But that's how it is. You won't believe til you see it yourself.
I'm getting the impression now everything your saying isn't something you have experianced first hand? You didn't come out of college with 'intel' and get your bagillion dollar job and you arn't the person making $15,000 a month from DOTA assets?
I also get the impression your blowing things out of proportion based on stuff you read on the internet. I know plenty of people making DOTA assets and I can assure you they aren't making $15,000 a month. The average skilled asset creator could turn a few thousand of there work, but often when taking into account how much investment they put in its similar pay to freelance or salary. If your lucky, may be a bit more. The long game of an asset selling can pay off, but I got the impression it is by far the gold mine people are lead to believe.
Sure if you was one of the first individuals to get on the DOTA train or was lucky enough to be part of the Polycount early assets then yeah, you make some great cash. But that ship sailed a long time ago and isn't something you can rest your livelihood and family on.
Oh wait, but why not make mobile games. You can make millions on that right?
I'm not trying to be negative, I'm sure like I stated in a previous post there is a very small percentage of people who win big but we are talking about realistic expectations here to guide your life on.
How much would you pay me to prove I am not bluffing or making it up? If I post links to prove....how much you'd pay me?
Thanks in part to this lovely community, I created a portfolio that helped me land a job in the game industry! While I am convinced my portfolio still needs a great deal of work, I am very thankful for all the advice I received here. So, thank you Polycount, I couldn't have done it without you.
Now, after 12 years of working in archviz, I am finally in the field that I should have been in all along. It involved a very expensive move cross-country (NYC > Seattle), and I had to leave my fiancee behind. But in the end it was worth it since I'm now doing what I love. My fiancee is soon to follow, once she finds work out here as well.
Again, thank you.
Software Engineers make quite a fair bit. My friend who is about to start an internship at IBM is being quoted at 75k o.O This is a 6 month internship with a big chance of being hired fulltime out of college. Told me his manager who has worked there for 2 years makes about 120k
EDIT: Derp saw the post was old
On another note, grats!
As someone that's along the same track as me, any advice?
Aside from what people have already said to me in this thread...do you have an online portfolio? If not I would definitely make one, even if there isn't any game art in it yet. Anything that will highlight your skills.
Figure out what you want to do in games and study that. Get a subscription to Digital Tutors or buy some Gnomon DVDs The good thing is you're already working, so you can afford stuff like this. But since you're working, it's harder to find the time.
I started my self training about a year ago. My weekday routine was to leave for work at 8, get home around 7, work on my portfolio or follow tutorials until around midnight, sleep and repeat. Also watched a bunch of tutorials on the subway ride into and back from work. To be honest, it was kind of exhausting and I had to sacrifice some of my social life. But it feels good to have a goal and work towards it. Definitely helped my general attitude towards my job in archviz, since I knew I would get out of there eventually.
Also if you ever want to PM me about anything specific, feel free.
I did have an online portfolio, but GoDaddy and I had a disagreement and decided we should part ways. Sadly, GoDaddy didn't handle the break up maturely and deleted all my stuff. I'm in the process of building a brand new site on a more rational hosting site.
Been doing some very simple layout sketches to get the ball rolling. My last site was bloated and needed to die anyway.