Matts Big Improvement Push

mats effect

Latest



Project 1: Posts 1-14

Project 2: Posts 15-25

Project 3: Posts 26-27

Project 4: Posts 28+

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Sup Polycount

You may remember me from various unfinished projects and abandoned environments. Well I decided its time to take drastic action or I am NEVER going to get to where I want to be.

I want to make a massive push to take my skills to the next level and for now I am going to 100% focus on props that I can finish quickly and learn a lot from.

Don't think i need to say any more for now but I have a ton of awesome art books so I am going to pick out a concept from each one of those for each prop and try my best to nail it.

Onward!

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First one is a Mold Detector from Wolfenstein the new order - http://i.imgur.com/SSUX5UL.jpg

Its rendered in UE4 with Albedo, Normal, Roughness and AO maps. Pick it apart please

http://i.imgur.com/3HTbO5N.png

http://i.imgur.com/s17VT0m.png

DiHydro

Hey Matt, my $.02. I think you can push the AO a bit further to give it more contrast and a better feeling of depth. You can also give your edges some highlights, scrapes and such. Your model is a bit "sharper" than the concept art, so you can probably give some edges a bit more roundness. Missing some nuts and bolts from the concept, and the ones you have could increase in size a bit. The warning label will give your model a little extra color and interesting places to look.

Keep at it Matt, I'm in the same boat

Spiffy

I'd say model the base as one piece



It looks like it's divided up into pieces where as in the reference The base is one solid pieces of metal with smooth transitions between angles.

Pull back on your edges loops/beveling, at the moment the edges are way to hard, even if you're changing the design a little those aren't really going to display well in game.

And add some smudges and bigger details to the textures, some dirt and grime in around the top filter area and in the nooks and crannies., something subtle, just enough to break the texture up.

mats effect

Thanks DiHydro and Spiffy taking note of all of that

tynew

You didn't bake a low poly AO? Or does UE4 not support a separate AO slot? It will help a lot.

mats effect

Hey been a week since I updated as I have been working half days all week but anyway found time on and off to get some work done on this.

Among other things I am trying to add a weld seam on the bits that stick out at each side, yeah to nail it yet though as its looking a bit odd still.

I think the large surfaces could stand to be broken up a bit more and some some edge damage that sands out more too.








@tynew didn't bake an AO from the highpoly made it with ndo2 in Photoshop using the normals.

Nosslak

mats effect wrote: »

@tynew didn't bake an AO from the highpoly made it with ndo2 in Photoshop using the normals.

You really should combine that with baked AO from at least the lowpoly to get some shadows from where objects intersect each other as that can't be interpreted from a normalmap while being the most important aspect. You'd get the best result if you were to skip ndos AO completely and just go with a combined bake from an exploded highpoly bake and unexploded lowpoly bake. If you're really pressed for time you can use ndo or whatever but IMO that should be a last-ditch effort as the results will probably never be as good as a proper bake.
For curvature (or even cavity) maps the results from a 2D normalmap conversion would probably be acceptable, but AO is just too dependent on geometry.

beefaroni

Hey. This crit may sound a bit harsh but if you're serious about this improvement thread you need to go back and re-do your model.

There are a few obvious spots where it doesn't match up at all. I think with an environment it's not that big of a deal, but when you're working on such a finely detailed/small prop, I think everything needs to be as close as possible.

Image below

1. Model that geo in on the low poly.
2. Model the bolts out. It will break the silhouette on the side. Right now they are just flat on the grazing angle.
3. Really try to nail the organic geo into the flat geo. Right now yours doesn't really match.
4. The fan is a bit different as well. You're missing the lip on the end and bolts.
5. The edges on yours are super hard and look straight up beveled. Incredibly different from the concept. Those smooth edges really sell the material.
6. All of the othe rbolts that are missing.
7. The top of the concept is much thicker vertically.

beefaroni

Oh I see you added the soft edges but I think some of my points still stand.

mats effect

Thanks Nosslak yeah I think I will go back and do that then.

Cheers beefaroni tons of great points! As you said I have addressed one or two of them but still loads of great feedback for me to work on

Zwebbie

I think the main thing you can improve upon is simply breaking down your reference in your mind. What sizes and shapes are things, and how do they relate? If the attachment works, I've drawn up some guidelines as examples on how I'd look at this thing.

Measuring with your eyes is a bit tricky, but it's an essential skill. I think you'd benefit from doing regular pen and paper drawing and practicing this, away from all the technicalities and difficulties of 3D modeling and confronted with the pure necessity of imitating a shape and nothing more.

mats effect

Thanks so much guys! Yeah the attachment works thanks Zwebbie! Yeah I agree about the drawing stuff too I am not that great at drawing on paper but I think the practicing alone regardless of the outcomes will be helpful.

mats effect

Not addressed everything yet but an update on things.

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So I still want to cut though three little indents where the red button is on the front but I can't work out a great way to cut a round hole into a curved surface. Anyone got any tips for advice?


Also started on this next one figured I would post it before I started to unwrap and texture it. Working on getting better and making sure I can follow a concept better and make more accurate measurements on things. I feel like the arms sticking out holding the camera are a bit too thin and long for starters.

Here is the concept its from the art of Titanfall

http://i.imgur.com/rzAe4aN.png

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Some renders of the lowpoly from marmoset. Going to be using UE4 again but, I find marmo quicker for loading into for quick previews.

Here are the wires too, its currently at 15.4k tri's Overkill?

http://i.imgur.com/kFc6Dik.png

http://i.imgur.com/wseoMs6.png

beefaroni

Hmm. Great start, but I feel like you're missing the proportions of the concept again. I guess it's not super important to nail a concept 1:1 all the time, but I think the proportions that are off need to be corrected to fix the feeling of the piece (i suck at critiquing intelligently..)

If I don't get a drawover to you later shoot me a PM and remind me.

Chris Kuhner

I agree with beefaroni (best sentence ever). I think you could work some of your edges a bit more too, right now everything feels a bit tight. Give everything a little of the Push modifier if you're using Max and add some volume to your forms.

Of course everything doesn't need to be 1:1 as beefaroni said; but you do need to nail the overall shape language if no improve/accentuate it. Right now it doesn't really feel like one fluid and functional piece. Sort of feels pieced together in a way. If that makes sense.

mats effect

Thanks guys. Its so dam obvious looking at it now the top section is too wide and open and the bottom part is way to fat for starters. Totally agree that it does not need to be 1:1 as you both say but, if I can't follow a concept that's also a problem and something its better to work on and improve now.

Cheers to both of you

beefaroni

^ Yay . In addition to what I say in the crit, I think you could re-work your tri count. The cylinders up top need more geo! You could probably get away with less on like the fans or something..

mats effect

Thanks for the paintover!

Not addressed everything yet etc but made some changes this morning. Want to make some of the joins between parts look a bit better too like at the ends of the arms.

mats effect

Thought it was worth posting some progress on the textures so far to see if anyone has any advice and tips. Want to rebake the AO again so haven't posted it yet and marked out a few details here that I want to add onto the texture to break it up a bit more.

http://i.imgur.com/GN7iKmY.png

http://i.imgur.com/Patr4e6.png

mats effect

Few more changes today. Changed most of the old images to links so hope that speeds up loading the page a fair bit.

Bartalon

Looking good. My only complaint is about the warning tags. Usually those types of industrial stickers are totally glossy like they are made out of plastic or vinyl or something, and all of the printed information is underneath; which means the entire tag would have the same roughness value. The letters themselves wouldn't be super glossy compared to the rest of it. The way your roughness map reads now is more like a business card with wax or spot-glossed lettering.

mats effect

Cheers Bartalon. Yeah you are right about the tags don't know why I was thinking they would be just exposed paper as that would be silly and come off at first contact with water or something. Will fix that asap.
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Edit:

final version

mats effect

Been taking part in the monthly challenge for November but, though I would post this here too.

http://i.imgur.com/4Wj4hsf.png

http://i.imgur.com/vmGvwnS.png

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Forgot to post the final results here. Any feedback would be useful

mats effect

New project again focused around a single prop but going to do the entire environment from the concept, its been fun to work with world machine again.

concept is this one by Sergey Averkin.

Few WIP shots of the comm tower/relay device. Will post environment stuff later.

http://i.imgur.com/eUBJrd6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KIFynCZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mYKPvwZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/khgcki0.jpg

mats effect

Back after a bit of a break for the holidays. Terrain is pretty basic looking still but took a wile to get a layout I was quite happy with so I would say everything is place holder at the moment.

Want to spend tomorrow working on the main prop to get it upto speed then can turn back to making the landscape pretty.

Been using a lot of substance designer of late and looking forward to trying to make that nice stony/muddy material for down near the river.

http://i.imgur.com/rQP8hf3.png

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Few shots of the tower, feedback would be awesome. It's all 100% done in substance designer, picked up a few things I would change if I did it again so that's always good to know for the future.

Too much noise on the colour map?

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Morning all time for an update. Planning to get on with some terrain stuff at last today.

http://i.imgur.com/tdsYPXF.png

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Started to add some grass in, no weeds or flowers yet though. Think I am having some shadow issues with it at the moment though bit dark looking. Had to upgrade to Unreal 4.7 to get the grass running at a good frame rate too.

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Adding a bit more detail to the grass and improved some of the terrain materials, though still not happy with the rock one at all. Starting making some rock mesh's as well so thought I would get some screens of the first one posted early for some feedback



http://i.imgur.com/X6bwg3G.png

http://i.imgur.com/9xq9MOa.png

mats effect

Some rocks, need to build a few formations out of them though.

beefaroni

Are you using the two-sided foliage shader? there seems to be some odd shading on your grass. It also may help to add a bit of geometry to the grass. Like maybe 1 cut down the middle and bend it around. That way it hides the plane a bit. If you want to make an LOD for that you can always remove all the center cuts. Just a thought.

Rocks look pretty good. I think the left is my favorite. The right one and middle to an extent feel a bit too jaggy and more like meteorites vs. the one on the left.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing this progress.

mats effect

Thanks

Hey yeah its two sided but yeah you are right its still a little odd looking. I will as you say add a bit more geo to the grass and bend them a bit to see if that helps. Also want to add a few more variants with different plants etc.

Yeah I agree about the rocks too, I am quite happy with how they look but the two on the right are pretty different from the one of the left and are more meteorite in shape. I think this is the result of me not doing enough research into what type of rocks I should have and stick with it.

Hoping epic patch the foliage issues tomorrow with 4.7 so I can get back to work lol.

beefaroni

When you get UE4 back up, shoot me a PM. I'll be out of town for a bit next week but I can take a look at your shader setup if you want!

- sent from phone

mats effect

awesome! will do.

mats effect

Decided to make the most of not being able to open up the environment in unreal and focus on improving the ground textures.

Planning to use this one down around the river shore area. Thoughts and feedback welcome, its rendered in marmoset.

http://i.imgur.com/NdgCHLf.png

http://i.imgur.com/7ZXRrjS.png

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Made a new version of the texture in the middle image above because it was pretty crap.
http://i.imgur.com/cCP09Ug.png

JasonLavoie

To be honest Matt, I liked the older version. This current version looks so damn noisey, I can't exactly make out what it's suppose to be, what is it suppose to be?

mats effect

Cheers for the feedback. Rock texture for terrain, but I guess if that's not clear I have a problem. I just felt the last one was a bit flat looking though maybe it just needs a bit of tweaking or I just need to dump them both will have a play around now.

mats effect

Here is the first one again with a few changes, thought honestly I am not sure. I guess the real test is when I can get back in Unreal 4 and actually test it on terrain.

http://i.imgur.com/u8Qp40w.png

mats effect

Yay finally back in action. Fixed up a few issues today so going to get cracking with making this look awesome now.

http://i.imgur.com/ibVoVLb.png

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http://i.imgur.com/JxaNUZv.png

edit: thats actually a bit of a crappy angle but I am trying to nail that overall look now. I think the background mountain will have to go in favor of a better one. Starting to carve out that cliff on the left hand side of match the concept better too.

mats effect

http://i.imgur.com/KcptaW7.png

mats effect

Wouldn't mind a bit of feedback if anyone can give me some. It feels like its improving but not quickly enough. (didn't work on it for the last week because of cool things happening )

Here is its current state, I have stripped away the cliff on the left side again as I didn't like my last build of it at all.

http://i.imgur.com/JyU9s3V.png

Some ideas for the direction I might go for the left side of the river.

http://i.imgur.com/rLKScsE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XbeVf7B.jpg

Nosslak

The scene is kind of in a weird place IMO as I see some good assets posted individually here (like the rock models and the flat grass texture) but it doesn't look like you're using them at all. What I am instead seeing is some round rocks without any real definition, looking like they're coming straight out of a 2005 game, with some very sparse, almost neon-green grass with bad lighting. You mentioned foliage bugs so maybe the lighting isn't your fault, but the rest could still be improved.

You clearly have some good assets, so I don't understand why you're not using them. So I would just swap out the rocks for the more defined versions above (they may be a bit too meteoric as people have mentioned but they're a lot better than what you have now), switch out the grass to the one posted above and make the grass less sparse and saturated. I would also add some more detail to the terrain via erosion filters and other effects in World Machine to make that a bit more interesting. Lastly some trees and or bushes would break up some of the repetition in the background well but I can see there's none of that on the concept or your reference.

mats effect

Thanks Nosslak great points. i Think any foliage issues are mostly on me rather than engine problems, been trying to get a good balance between something that looks good but also preforms well in engine.

Think I need to take a good look at what assets I have and what ones I need to replace and use them a lot better then I am now.

mats effect

Made a lot of changes to the terrain layout. A lot to do but determinant to see this through and make it awesome.

AgelosAp

Your post #48 had a more compelling composition.
I did a quick paintover I hope you don't mind, I 'm no concept artist but I think it 's better to show some things this way than make a long list :P
In addition to the stuff I did, you could get that pylon asset closer to the camera even have it exceed the frame as it really provides no information at this scale.