Archeopteryx Sculpt

marcobar

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ORIGINAL POST:

Hi all,

I'm working on a sculpt of an Archeopteryx (winged and feathered dinosaur) for an organic modelling class, and I was hoping to get some feedback from all you talented Polycounters.

I'm mainly looking for some advice about the musculature and overall anatomy. The only references out there are either skeletons, or covered in feathers, so it's been difficult figuring out the overall forms. Also, long flight feathers are going to come out of the arms to form a wing, which is why they're on the skinny side for now:

Artelios

Hi there. So it seems your legs connect a little to close to your arms to even allow proper landing/running motions. I'd look more bird/lizard references for anatomy. Also, look up the Hoatzin South American bird. They're interesting because they also have functional 'claws' on their wings used for climbing.

DWalker

Birds are definitely your best bet for anatomy, since they're the descendents of archaeopteryx or a similar dino. While the hands & feet might be more robust than in most modern birds, it's unlikely they'd be as muscled as on your model.

Note how thin the muscles of the lower leg are for all of the early flyers.

marcobar

Artelios: the insertion point of the legs seemed so obviously wrong to me once you pointed it out! I definitely agree on that point, and as I did some work on the legs today I tried to correct it (see WIP below). Also, thanks for the tip on the Hoatzin brid. I really like its wing shape, and I'll be looking at it a lot when it comes time to add all the feathers.

DWalker: Again, on second look the issues were pretty clear - the hands and feet are very chunky, and not too bird-like. I've dropped a great ref I found for what I'll be aiming for in the revised model:

Stirls

That is a LOT better. Following this one!

marcobar

Thanks, Stirls - there'll be lots of updates since the due-date is next Thursday. If I have the time I may keep pushing it further. This is one of the few assignments I currently have for school with 'portfolio potential'.

marcobar

Did a chunk of work on the hands and lower legs. The innermost claw now turns in the right direction (away from the wing, like the Hoatzin bird), and the general proportions have been changed. The feet have been scaled down, and the musculature of the lower leg is less dramatic.

I also did some tweaking of the chest and back anatomy after looking at some diagrams of bird muscles. They have a long pectoral muscle that hooks up at the shoulder and fattens out near the belly, so I've worked that in. There are also some changes in how the back muscles wrap around the body (which aren't really pictured in the WIP):

marcobar

I've got the overall forms to a point that I'm happy with, and since I'm showing this model in class tomorrow, I wanted to move on to some finer detail. I'm starting with the face, and mainly looking to give it a nice skin texture, and work in the little creases and folds I've found in my references. Eventually I'll incorporate some feathery/furry elements, but for now I just wanted to get some good-looking "dinosaur skin" to show my instructor.

It took a few tries before I got a method I was happy with, but it could definitely be improved. Does anyone have any good tips for working on skin like this?

Artelios

MUCH better. The legs look great in that shot, however it looks as if the tibia/fibia are acting as the femur. The femur attachment point looks like it needs to be pulled further back. Keep it up (and I'd avoid doing scale/high detail until your basic anatomy is more adjusted). I'll be watching this if you keep returning to it with some WIPs.

marcobar

Thanks for the comment, Artelios. I definitely agree about holding off on the fine detail - I only did this part so that I had a fully detailed portion to show in class tomorrow. As I continue to work on it during my off time, I'll be going back to the basic proportions before moving on (I've been saving iterations throughout the process).

I liked how the legs work in a 3/4 view, but when I hop over to the side view the legs do look a bit off. I whipped this up to make sure I understood your point:



Did you mean to point out that the 'middle section' of the leg is too short when compared to the other points? If so, I think the insertion point of the femur and main leg muscles should be moved like in the picture.

KazeoHin

it seems you are missing the long phalanges that make up the wing...

marcobar

Very true, KazeoHin - I blocked in the 'hands' during class without looking at enough reference, and only realized the mistake later on. In the next pass I'll be looking to make them more like the ref below, where the phalanges are the same length as the forearm they're attached to:

marcobar

Spent some time elongating the phalanges, and otherwise tweaking arm proportions. I also worked on the legs - mainly giving the 'ankle' more of a unified feel, where before it looked too much like it was made up of multiple bones. The back muscles are also reworked so that they better reflect avian anatomy.

I'm fairly happy with the basic proportions right now, but I'd like to put it out there to see if anyone catches some glaring problems:

DWalker

The jaw just looks odd to me. Of course, there aren't many living examples of toothed birds around to compare. The double curve seems wrong, and the upper jaw comes very close to the bottom of the eye's orbit. Most skeletons I've seen have a fairly straight jaw.



This blog, http://dinogoss.blogspot.it/search/label/art, might have some useful tips for you on flying dinos.

marcobar

Thanks, DWalker - I copied the double curve from one of the above references (This One), but you're the second person now to comment on the shape of the mouth. My teacher thought it looked a bit off, as well. I think I'll take a stab at straightening it out during my next sitting, and seeing if I like the new look. It would probably look more like a "beak" that way, anyways.

Thanks for the link, too!