Toned down the style a bit so it'd fit with the game, I felt that the feathers and the 'harness' was a bit much. Also I've removed the red from the weapon, so that wouldn't look too jarring on an agatha knight. Time to do the handle!
Thanks 9th! I'm going to add more detail to the area above the hands though, I sort of rushed that part, yet it's the most important part of the weapon for first person =/
I'll probably finish that area tonight, and get on with the low poly tomorrow
Thanks, yeah - I was getting the same vibes too. I've started retopo in modo, and have switched back to zbrush, since zbrush's retopologizing feels better suited for parts with more detail.
After the crest, I'll refine the low poly with any spare tris I have laying around, and see what the normal map will look like.
Here I've reduced the poly count of the original mesh from 10mil to 1mil using decimation master, so I can work with it effectively in modo without having modo die on me. I've also used transpose master on it, so it's all in one subtool so I can export it as a .obj.
This is what it looks like in modo.
Started on retopo.
Imported back into zbrush to retopo the crest. This is where I am now, I'll probably finish all of the low poly tonight.
Retopo in zbrush is really easy, and feels very well designed for organic meshes. Sure, you have to draw out each individual vert, but this gives you 100% control for hand-retoping an organic mesh. To retopo in zbrush, append a zsphere inside the mesh you want to retopo, go down to topology, and click 'edit topology'.
Done with the rough-retopo of the main parts. I will finish with modo.
Regarding retopo in Zbrush : While it is certainly doable with a lot of patience, I wouldn't exactly call it "really easy" If you have the chance I would strongly recommend you to give Topogun2 a try. Out of all the "full control" manual retopo solutions I tried over the years, I personally find it to be by far the fastest and the one offering the most control.
Now of course everybody has different tastes when it comes to that kind of things - I guess all I am trying to say is, if you are curious about it and never tried it before, it might be worth giving it a spin. Now if you tried it already and didn't like it that's a different story ...
It's my first time at doing a lot of things (I've never made a game asset before, only played around in zbrush, maya, and modo, and learning how to make a game asset), so I'm not very familiar with other software. I've played a lot of games though, and made a few mods in the morrowind construction set.
I'll definitely look into getting topogun though, sounds like it would save some time. How does it compare to zremesher? the effects look somewhat similar.
ehh, ZRemesher is automatic for one thing. It will probably create a higher poly mesh than if you did it in topogun or with zbrushes retopo tools. Topogun and Zbrush's retopo tools are more comparable, and the general feel of topogun is more cooperative I find. I pretty much just use Zbrush for sculpting/polypaint, the other options are convoluted imo. I'm looking to pick up modo here soon, I've seen and heard great things.
Really nice retop. Looks like the flow and density is good. Seriously, check out Max's graphite tools for retopping. I fled from zBrush retopping once I figured them out!
Thanks, the maul is 4,998 tris. I focused on the curves, because I remember that whenever I played games, I always noticed polygons at the edges of curves.
Good call. Just a reminder, the shader don't use alpha/opacity maps or double sided materials. Have been trying to remind people when working on their low so they can adjust for that if needed.
Ha knew that you was not sleeping until now. Just dropping by to say that his looks awesome, also the other thread with the knowledge bombds is great, Thanks for that.
Do not know what your knowledge about uvwmapping is but that looks horrible even for a 6am Uvmap =P.
Some points to get a decent uvmap. Think about stuff that can be overlayed, for example you maybe don't need to have all the feathers unique maybe just 2-3 variations.
Also having things layed out straight is a good way too prevent stutter step lines from the bake.
In 3dsmax there are textools which have some nice features like auto size adjustments various alignemnt options etc. You can do this manually tho by dropping a checker texture on your model and making sure the checkers are all one size.
Avoid unnesecarry seams, for example the handle could be one UV Island. Also all the small parts can be connected probaly to a larger island
All things should be in the square grid part.
Yeah and most obvious make sure there is not as much freespace. Just a bit to make sure the mipmaps won't cause texture bleeding
Probably a good idea to explode your mesh as well. Can imagine the bake will cause some trouble if you leave it all one mesh.
You keep it as one mesh
Basically you keep the mesh as it is but move the elements a bit away that will cause problems, in the lowpoly and the hipoly.
So first you would make a test bake with the mesh all together to identify which areas are problematic, than move the elements a bit away that cause these issues (numeric values preferably).
Can be a bit tricky to move stuff the same amount in zbrush and in your 3d application though.
Ohh, I get what you're saying (or at least I think so). When you bake a normal map to an exploded mesh, there's less interference since everything is far apart. However, the exploded mesh and the mesh that's all put together share the exact same UV map, the meshes are just in different places in the 3d viewport.
Dang, so much to learn, and the deadline is so close. My head is spinning.
So what it sounds like I should do is to finish UV unwrapping (so I can bake a normal map, you need a UV map, low poly + high poly to bake, right?). Bake the normal map, see if any areas are problematic, then move any meshes that are glitchy away from the main mesh, and try baking again?
I can move objects away in modo, and the zbrush parts are decimated and separated into different subtools, so I could also move them in modo too.
I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I'm zooming in and matching symmetrical UVs vertex by vertex, using the move tool with snap to vertex. It's really slow...
well it's not the software that's running slow, it's the procedure that I'm doing; matching vertex by vertex manually using the move tool + snapping for symmetrical topology.
And yeah, much cleaner looking Maybe a bit too many separate pieces still though.
My brother just told me to delete half and mirror... I do that all the time when I make a model, and forgot about it completely while doing UV...
I can't believe I spent an entire day matching verts with the move tool.
"Ohh, I get what you're saying (or at least I think so). When you bake a normal map to an exploded mesh, there's less interference since everything is far apart. However, the exploded mesh and the mesh that's all put together share the exact same UV map, the meshes are just in different places in the 3d viewport.
Dang, so much to learn, and the deadline is so close. My head is spinning.
So what it sounds like I should do is to finish UV unwrapping (so I can bake a normal map, you need a UV map, low poly + high poly to bake, right?). Bake the normal map, see if any areas are problematic, then move any meshes that are glitchy away from the main mesh, and try baking again?
I can move objects away in modo, and the zbrush parts are decimated and separated into different subtools, so I could also move them in modo too. "
Sounds like you got it right.
Yeah can be a bit overkill if you new to this process.
Keep in mind that there is a blood mask for the weapons so having the head mirrored and using the same uvspace will probably look odd when you add blood splatters there, also if you want to add blood splatters on the front of the handle for example. Also makes actually sense to have the crossornamants unique then at least for one side (guess thats the cross like thing in your uvmap). Yeah copy paste of objects will also copy the uv space with it, so thats way faster method to align it.
Well you also chose a quite complex model to dive into the wonderful world of uv's and baking
They certainly can - there is no such thing as doing "two UV maps" on game models...
My advice would be for you to practice the whole process (baking and game importing) using a small part of the asset, to make sure that you fully grasp all the concepts involved - and then move on to the real thing. That might save you some time in the long run
They certainly can - there is no such thing as doing "two UV maps" on game models...
My advice would be for you to practice the whole process (baking and game importing) using a small part of the asset, to make sure that you fully grasp all the concepts involved - and then move on to the real thing. That might save you some time in the long run
Not entirely true. Unreal uses two sets, one for your main material and then a second set of UVs for light baking if it's a static mesh in the scene but that's completely different from what we are talking about here so you are right . Just fun info to know if you're making an environment or something :P
But you need to move all overlapping pieces out of 0-1 zone.
Not necessarily - this is usually done just for the sake of clarity, and also sometimes because some normal map baking environments might crap themselves ; but as far as the final UVs go, there is no hard rule.
As for the two UV maps remarks : oh, of course yeah, lightmaps are a completely different thing, relying indeed on a separate UV set. There are tons of other uses for multiple UVs too, especially when dealing with shared assets in a character customization engine (for instance, the regular UVs + one set for shared tattoos + another one for a tiling skin texture... super useful stuff). I was just hoping to correct the OP as early as possible, since it seemed like he was just about to embark on some convoluted process which would have cost him some time
(as a matter of fact, there is yet even another scenario relying on "multiple UV maps" : that would be multiple UV "tiles" for film texturing. But again - a totally different scenario )
Zeth : Don't hesitate to let us know if you are running into any headscratchers when it comes to baking. It can be quite a convoluted process ...
Not necessarily - this is usually done just for the sake of clarity, and also sometimes because some normal map baking environments might crap themselve
Yes, most of the time normals will bake correctly, but there might be problems with AO
Sure, and I also normal mapped the francisca, which was a more simple shape than the maul. My brother's helping me do an ambient occlusion map next. This is awesommeeee
I feel that the throwing axe's poly level is way too high for it's shape, but the weapon tri limit is 5000. Might as well get some smooth curved silhouettes in there.
Making the diffuse map. It's really fun, and reveals how much of a newb I am at the technical aspects of art. Look at all that steel splashing out onto the wood there. So unprofessional, and so fun
I spent most of the day watching tutorials on masking, hotkeys, material types, etc. The normal and AO map are both on multiply, and I greyscaled the normal map and turned down the opacity to use it as a guide.
Right now I'm mostly just working on light/dark with custom brushes, and adding in photo textures with mask layer. Should be done by this morning. The tea grown locally here in China is fantastic, there's so many different types. I just add less water and more leaves for a concentrated pot of mana. Tired? No, not me...
It's actually pretty awesome, because it's contemporary, genuine left-over Chinese food of the 21st century that I found on an archeological dig through the fridge. The ramen, however, is modern reproduction work.
Anyway, check out my francisca! Also, if you want a good time, google images francisca.
There's still a few things that need adjusting; the major parts being highlights for the wood handle, and the axe head needs a spectacular gee-wowzers map.
Getting there. I'm pretty much satisfied with the colour and shading, but it's not quite polished yet. I need to make the details pop a little more, and be more coherent, and then I'll move onto the axe head.
I think I'm pretty satisfied with this handle now. I could always improve it, but with the deadline coming up, sometimes you just have to say "it's good enough, time to move on!"
Time to finish up the axe head. I'll probably get that done before noon, and then probably start on a specular map, and try to get this simple model working in the chiv SDK before I work on my more complicated models.
I'm aiming to get all three of my submissions completed within 10 days. Muahahahafredahtfjnghhkk!!!! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODDD
Done with the francisca! (There are black lines on top and on the bottom of the axe blade, and I'll need to make an specular map, but I will solve them later.) Did you guys know that oxidized armour/weapons are actually not completely black/white? They're actually a very slight tint of yellow-brown. This is due to the rust and the beeswax, oil, or any other kind of water-repellant they had available, mixing all together with sweat, blood, saliva, rain, piss, mud, fingerprints, and tears to form a kind of disgusting, oily film (that smells like rusty blood) on top of their gear.
You'd scrub it off with a clean rag, and reapply more wax/oil/elbow grease etc whenever you could though, of course. Don't be a lazy warrior and take care of your expensive full-plate, darn it! >:O
Replies
I'll probably finish that area tonight, and get on with the low poly tomorrow
After the crest, I'll refine the low poly with any spare tris I have laying around, and see what the normal map will look like.
Here I've reduced the poly count of the original mesh from 10mil to 1mil using decimation master, so I can work with it effectively in modo without having modo die on me. I've also used transpose master on it, so it's all in one subtool so I can export it as a .obj.
This is what it looks like in modo.
Started on retopo.
Imported back into zbrush to retopo the crest. This is where I am now, I'll probably finish all of the low poly tonight.
Done with the rough-retopo of the main parts. I will finish with modo.
Regarding retopo in Zbrush : While it is certainly doable with a lot of patience, I wouldn't exactly call it "really easy"
Now of course everybody has different tastes when it comes to that kind of things - I guess all I am trying to say is, if you are curious about it and never tried it before, it might be worth giving it a spin. Now if you tried it already and didn't like it that's a different story ...
Can't wait to see your final submissions !!
This Axe is probably my fav item you've got on the go, it's pretty fancy.
It's my first time at doing a lot of things (I've never made a game asset before, only played around in zbrush, maya, and modo, and learning how to make a game asset), so I'm not very familiar with other software. I've played a lot of games though, and made a few mods in the morrowind construction set.
I'll definitely look into getting topogun though, sounds like it would save some time. How does it compare to zremesher? the effects look somewhat similar.
Done with the retopo. Time to UV unwrap!
Thanks, the maul is 4,998 tris. I focused on the curves, because I remember that whenever I played games, I always noticed polygons at the edges of curves.
Do not know what your knowledge about uvwmapping is but that looks horrible even for a 6am Uvmap =P.
Some points to get a decent uvmap. Think about stuff that can be overlayed, for example you maybe don't need to have all the feathers unique maybe just 2-3 variations.
Also having things layed out straight is a good way too prevent stutter step lines from the bake.
In 3dsmax there are textools which have some nice features like auto size adjustments various alignemnt options etc. You can do this manually tho by dropping a checker texture on your model and making sure the checkers are all one size.
Avoid unnesecarry seams, for example the handle could be one UV Island. Also all the small parts can be connected probaly to a larger island
All things should be in the square grid part.
Yeah and most obvious make sure there is not as much freespace. Just a bit to make sure the mipmaps won't cause texture bleeding
Probably a good idea to explode your mesh as well. Can imagine the bake will cause some trouble if you leave it all one mesh.
Thanks for the tips, what does explode my mesh mean? Separate it into other meshes? I'll have a screenshot up soon.
Basically you keep the mesh as it is but move the elements a bit away that will cause problems, in the lowpoly and the hipoly.
So first you would make a test bake with the mesh all together to identify which areas are problematic, than move the elements a bit away that cause these issues (numeric values preferably).
Can be a bit tricky to move stuff the same amount in zbrush and in your 3d application though.
edit: check this out
http://arcticentertainment.blogspot.de/2013_09_01_archive.html
Dang, so much to learn, and the deadline is so close. My head is spinning.
So what it sounds like I should do is to finish UV unwrapping (so I can bake a normal map, you need a UV map, low poly + high poly to bake, right?). Bake the normal map, see if any areas are problematic, then move any meshes that are glitchy away from the main mesh, and try baking again?
I can move objects away in modo, and the zbrush parts are decimated and separated into different subtools, so I could also move them in modo too.
I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I'm zooming in and matching symmetrical UVs vertex by vertex, using the move tool with snap to vertex. It's really slow...
And yeah, much cleaner looking
My brother just told me to delete half and mirror... I do that all the time when I make a model, and forgot about it completely while doing UV...
I can't believe I spent an entire day matching verts with the move tool.
Dang, so much to learn, and the deadline is so close. My head is spinning.
So what it sounds like I should do is to finish UV unwrapping (so I can bake a normal map, you need a UV map, low poly + high poly to bake, right?). Bake the normal map, see if any areas are problematic, then move any meshes that are glitchy away from the main mesh, and try baking again?
I can move objects away in modo, and the zbrush parts are decimated and separated into different subtools, so I could also move them in modo too. "
Sounds like you got it right.
Yeah can be a bit overkill if you new to this process.
Keep in mind that there is a blood mask for the weapons so having the head mirrored and using the same uvspace will probably look odd when you add blood splatters there, also if you want to add blood splatters on the front of the handle for example. Also makes actually sense to have the crossornamants unique then at least for one side (guess thats the cross like thing in your uvmap). Yeah copy paste of objects will also copy the uv space with it, so thats way faster method to align it.
Well you also chose a quite complex model to dive into the wonderful world of uv's and baking
getting there!
I'm also supposed to make two UV maps, one for diffuse and another for normal. Normal maps can't have overlapping UVs.
Time to study.
My advice would be for you to practice the whole process (baking and game importing) using a small part of the asset, to make sure that you fully grasp all the concepts involved - and then move on to the real thing. That might save you some time in the long run
Not entirely true. Unreal uses two sets, one for your main material and then a second set of UVs for light baking if it's a static mesh in the scene but that's completely different from what we are talking about here so you are right
Not necessarily - this is usually done just for the sake of clarity, and also sometimes because some normal map baking environments might crap themselves ; but as far as the final UVs go, there is no hard rule.
As for the two UV maps remarks : oh, of course yeah, lightmaps are a completely different thing, relying indeed on a separate UV set. There are tons of other uses for multiple UVs too, especially when dealing with shared assets in a character customization engine (for instance, the regular UVs + one set for shared tattoos + another one for a tiling skin texture... super useful stuff). I was just hoping to correct the OP as early as possible, since it seemed like he was just about to embark on some convoluted process which would have cost him some time
(as a matter of fact, there is yet even another scenario relying on "multiple UV maps" : that would be multiple UV "tiles" for film texturing. But again - a totally different scenario
Zeth : Don't hesitate to let us know if you are running into any headscratchers when it comes to baking. It can be quite a convoluted process ...
Anyway, here's a sphere that I normal mapped. The UV is mirrored and overlapped, and it turned out fine
I feel that the throwing axe's poly level is way too high for it's shape, but the weapon tri limit is 5000. Might as well get some smooth curved silhouettes in there.
I spent most of the day watching tutorials on masking, hotkeys, material types, etc. The normal and AO map are both on multiply, and I greyscaled the normal map and turned down the opacity to use it as a guide.
Right now I'm mostly just working on light/dark with custom brushes, and adding in photo textures with mask layer. Should be done by this morning. The tea grown locally here in China is fantastic, there's so many different types. I just add less water and more leaves for a concentrated pot of mana. Tired? No, not me...
The 3D artist main fuel ladys and gentelmen
Anyway, check out my francisca! Also, if you want a good time, google images francisca.
There's still a few things that need adjusting; the major parts being highlights for the wood handle, and the axe head needs a spectacular gee-wowzers map.
Time to finish up the axe head. I'll probably get that done before noon, and then probably start on a specular map, and try to get this simple model working in the chiv SDK before I work on my more complicated models.
I'm aiming to get all three of my submissions completed within 10 days. Muahahahafredahtfjnghhkk!!!! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODDD
You'd scrub it off with a clean rag, and reapply more wax/oil/elbow grease etc whenever you could though, of course. Don't be a lazy warrior and take care of your expensive full-plate, darn it! >:O
Moving onto the maul now!
http://grooveshark.com/s/Deceiver+Of+The+Gods/5i7Qn7?src=5