Okay, so I imported the longsword FBX into modo, and hid the joint for now. Just a few things I noticed; I'm no sword expert by far, but I do know a few things about swords.
And, for those who are also in the competition, you may want to take note of these details if you want to strive for historical accuracy, or if you're building a sword of your own IRL.
This is a pretty awful sword, if it was a real one. Luckily, it's not, and it works fine and actually looks pretty good, as a 3d model and art asset to the game. It serves it's purpose in that it looks like a sword at first glance, and not too many know, in detail, how swords really function.
However, the first thing that I noticed was that the pommel is tiny. It's so small, it basically just serves as decoration! Pommels were used to counterbalance the weight of the sword blade.
Here, I've just inserted a cylinder to show you the proper size of a pommel for a sword of this length.
Weight balance is one of those things that make or break swords. Swinging a longsword without a proper pommel would be like swinging around a wood axe, or some farm tool. With a proper pommel, it's more like swinging around a lightsaber, because the blade is counterbalanced.
Next I noticed that the grip looked like it was turned on a lathe. Grips are not cylindrical! On cross-section, they are ovoid. Why are the ovoid, you might ask? Well when your hands and your sword are drenched in blood, you're not going to notice that you're hitting with the flat of your blade until you do (and then you die a horrible, bloody, painful death, because your opponent is still alive after hitting him with the flat of your blade, and is smart enough to use a sword with an ovoid grip).
The ovoid handle allows for precise blade alignment, so that you're always hitting with the sharp ends of your sword.
Another thing is, the blade shape isn't really good for either chopping or thrusting. It isn't a wide or curved sword, so chops and slashes will be mediocre, and also the thickness is fairly consistant, all the way down the blade, so it's going to be a really heavy blade. All in all, this is a fancy looking, metal stick.
Finally, Chivalry is basically all about fighting guys in chainmail, and this tip is not going to pierce chainmail at all. You need a blade with basically a sharpened needlepoint at the end, not a beveled point. A real plate and chainmail piercing, proper English longsword, made by Albion Swords, looks like this:
Almost all of the weight is concentrated around the hilt. It is a simple, incredibly efficient and effective design, made by humans for one reason; to kill other humans. The blade is basically an elongated triangle that can take off a man's fingers or nose with a flick of the wrist, and a point that seems thinner, but is actually quite a thick, brutal bodkin arrow type point. This sword will split chainmail rings, stab straight through any padding, wool, cloth, or leather underneath like butter; it'll skewer the average warrior in Chivalry like a pig on a roast.
And hey, look, the blade is gets quite wide around the middle to the base; guess what that means? Great chopping action.
Here's the initial shape of the Mercurial Blade, longsword. Why longsword? It's very popular (and still popular, after taking time to google what is the most favorite knight weapon) and also because beginning knights start with the ability to use longswords.
Here it is from the side, just to emphasis how important thickness can be, and just how thin swords really are. Giant clubs that resemble swords are overkill, and unwieldy. They're a lot of fun to use in other games, but don't belong in Chivalry, imo.
You only need to stick a human 5 inches in a few times, or get a few deep slashes in, and they're probably not going to make it without immediate medical care.
looks very nice! I am an absolute fan of your helmet and would definately pay to use it! your shield is juist awesome adn i cant wait to see what you come up with for the sword!
If everything that has been made for the constest is on this forum, you've basically won. Congratz :P
Hahaha, just realized you can wear the helmet by zooming the camera inside, and look out of the visor. It's pretty messy inside though. Make sure to toggle fullscreen mode for flawless Agatha Knight POV mode.
I retopo'd the helmet today. There are still a few adjustments to be made, but it's under the 1.2k triangle limit, at 927 triangles. I got rid of the vestigial greek hoplite plume thing... just didn't look right after awhile.
I still kept the forward plumes, which look more natural, and in character with 15th century helmets (although feather plumes are rare, and are almost always attached at the back of the helmet, not the front.)
Anyway, this model still has about 270 triangles I can use, so I'm going to smooth out the plume, and any other silhouette areas.
On a side note, I both really enjoy the helmet knock-off effect, I think it's awesome and really fun, but I'm also annoyed by it, because helmets don't fall off, even after a few swings. They just don't. Otherwise people wouldn't wear helmets... But anyway, this helmet's visor is also modeled to be able to detach.
I probably should have chose a different helmet style, since armets, and parts of armets, are basically impossible to separate from a person's head unless wearer unlatches and pushes in one, or several tough spring pins. Knocking off someone's visor implies you somehow managed to get your weapon firmly stuck in steel, and the ungodly strength to rip it off of two very durable, steel rivets, tearing metal it in the process.
The more likely outcome, if you did have the strength and the correct type of weapon to perhaps puncture a hole in the visor (like a spiked warhammer, polearm, etc), is that you wouldn't tear the visor off, you'd tear the guy's head off too.
I think i agree with removing the backmost plumes. Maybe the longest plume needs to be a little thicker? it looks like it will bend if you hit it hard enough...
Also, what happened to all the details, fluting and hinges?
It would be realy sick to see what you could do produce given these images and your skill. I would realy buy the models if they would come out.
mate... age of chivalry was made by the torn banner team themself... and doesn't that flamberge look awefully much like a weapon we already know? a vanguard weapon maybe?
Yeah, that would be fun! There's still a month to make stuff, and my specialty is making fantasy armour based on the medieval era.
The 3d work I've done here is just a projection of what I've learned IRL how to do; how metal moves and forms under a hammer, advanced 16th century plate articulations, material specifications, proper proportioning, contemporary plate armour decor, etc.
As for a Flamberges / Flammenschwerts, they can be any size. Really, it's just the wavy pattern, and how people call them flamberges, which is just "flame-sword" (the german language is very literal. Bidenhander, or Zweihander literally means two-hand sword). You can have short ones, or longer ones; bidenhanders (zweihanders) with flamberge blades.
Personally, I just like straight, no fuss blades. They're easier to make, easier to sharpen, and look just as, or more elegant. Either a straight stabby blade, a bidenhander, or a tulwar, or some other blade that gives insanely powerful curved slices.
My fourth favorite weapon would be a spetum, which is basically, one longsword and two curved shortswords mounted on a pole, capable of impaling several people with one thrust, or if you miss, you still have an excellent chance of decapitating or dismembering.
And sure, I can go make some mason models too, modeling weapons and armour is like playing minecraft... but more related to my skills, and more fun too.
Here's a suit of armour I was working on a year ago, it isn't really that good. I've learned much more since then and will be making armour again soon as a side hobby, but I'm still setting up my workshop in China.
any idea what the purpose of wavy blades are? I read sonewhere it sent uncomfortable vibrations through an enemy arm when blocking, but im not sure that's true
I'm not so sure that's the main reason either. My best guess is that it makes the sword preform like a serrated blade, making it easier to cut through thicker padding. Either that, or decorative purposes.
The role of a doppelsoldner (double-pay soldier in German, a really powerful person who a used bidenhander, and acted as a shocktroop at the second wave, behind cannon fodder). was, I think, as psychological warfare, and crowd control, mostly. The doppelsoldner would be able to fend off multiple people at once, simply because people don't want to step in the path of someone swinging a really big sword.
It's also a really big sword, so if it manages to land a solid blow once, you're probably either dead, or majorly crippled if you're not wearing full plate armour (and even if you are, it's like getting hit by a 6 foot steel baseball bat, I'd imagine).
I imagine it was also used very similar to a short-ish spear. knights would carry these on horseback, and be able to use them as lances, and they'd still retain effectiveness if dismounted.
While bidenhander usage against pike formations is plausible, there are very few depictions of this actually happening. Other pike formations, and ranged weaponry are two of the more common methods of scattering and taking down a pike formation.
However, it does make some sense to use a long weapon, the bidenhander, against a pike; the problem is that pikes can reach lengths of 12+ feet long, and bidenhanders are only 6-7 feet maximum.
This means that for bidenhanders to work against pike formations, the person charging would require plate armour, or lest he be skewered by a dozen pikes all aiming at him.
I could possibly see a knight, man at arms, or other combatant wearing full plate with a bidenhander. A doppelsoldner wearing full plate could theoretically charge into a pike formation with a reasonable chance of survival, long enough to take down a substantial amount of enemy combatants with a 6 foot sword.
Also, I've decided to make a set for each character type of both teams. I probably won't enter them into the competition though, competitions are supposed to be fun. I'll post progress pics on my website, and if you guys and Torn Banner like them enough, maybe they'll be implement them into the store.
@Sophax, make your own damn weapons like the rest of us chiv spuds haha
I lack the talent and know how hehe, just giving some ideas on what would be cooL. Perhaps if some armors that I like don't end up getting in the game I could try my hand at making something and learning ^^
Those pictures look sick man, mad respect Zetheros for your ability to acutally make these IRL aswel as in the digital world
I can imagine myself just dressing up in full plate dragon armor for a halloween haha
Do you just do it as hobby or do you make a living out of it?
It would be pretty amazing to see some of these creations in the game. I've sunken 1k in "Age of Chivalry" and 1.2K in Medieval Warfare in total.
I could easily spend some more time playing if I had the right attire and weaponry
Nothing would make the game more enjoyable than cutting up people as a knight with a longsword sized flambard, just like in the Age of Chivalry.
On a side note. I was investigating on what other types of styles would be neat to see in this game.
Seeing as the mason knight wears plated lammelar armor, he kinda represents a more eastern approach of armor as opposed to the traditional full plated knight. I assume he is based on the "Varangian Guard".
They do resemble.
The same kind of armor was being used by Iberian/Middle-Eastern and Eurasiatic armies.
You had a period of over 800 years (700-1500) when Spain was inhabited by predominantly muslim people.
You had the Ottoman Empire which was present in large parts of Europe throught history
So I don't think it would or should feel out of place. You have naked "barbarians" for crying out loud as DLC.
Some examples
I came across this sword that actually exsisted. Pretty interesting for a messer skin imo. Its called a "Zulfiqar" if I'm not mistaken
Anyways I'm done spamming now good luck with your work will look forward to more of your work
mate... age of chivalry was made by the torn banner team themself... and doesn't that flamberge look awefully much like a weapon we already know? a vanguard weapon maybe?
Entirely different team that made the game
shortsword does resemble a longsword only its shoter, both straight swords
same for a very long and hand and a half sword flambard, they can resemble but that doesn't make them them the same weapon now does it
Sophax, you bring up an excellent point; real armour is just as fantastical as anything we're making today in 2014. The only difference is that they knew exactly how armour worked, through centuries of wars, and that they had different cultures, religions, and other aspects of life that shaped the definition of 'really cool, badass, and fantastic, lets stick that on my breastplate' in their minds.
Monarchs, nobles, and the rich often had incredibly elaborate suits of armour commissioned (some suits of armour cost as much as an entire castle back then), detailed with classical greek and roman mythos, because they wanted to look really cool and impress ladies and the crowd in court, just like we do!
The main producers of plate armour were from mostly Italy, England, Germany, Spain, and France, I believe. I may have left out one or two; I'm not really an expert on historical accuracy.
And then there's also armour from the Middle East and Asia, but I don't know enough about those types of armour to really comment about them; but it's apparent that they, too, decorated some of their armour to the point of what we'd consider 'fantasy', with their own legends, religions, and symbols.
If you do the research, there are tons of different kinds of armour. The only thing to watch out for is differentiating between reproduction and shoddy craftsmanship, from the real thing.
So I actually don't even know how to do normal maps yet, but I realized I needed more detail on my high-res model for a normal map to be effective. So, here it is!
I also reworked the plume. Still need some more polish work, though.
This is so fun. This is basically my dream job come true, even if I don't win anything xD Armouring IRL is very difficult and dirty work, requiring an immense amount of patience, skill, and hard work. It takes a very long time (sometimes several years) to make anything that looks good too, and so much repetition it'll make your head spin.
Time to make this set much, much better. You guys are daaaaaammnn fierce competitors >:O
Not really sure where to post updates anymore, it would be pretty cool to have a dedicated forum somewhere for 3d artists to post updates for Chiv. Maybe TB could open a WIP forum sub-section on their website?
Anyway, just a quick update on what I'm doing so far, before I start on low-poly. Making a set for each class of the Agatha, then moving onto sets for Masons.
Due to popular demand, I am making my sets much more realistic, yet also very stylish and well-made. None of that clunky, half-beaten to death armour with tiny nicks and cuts and rust in it everywhere.
Knight gets an armet and a longsword. The shield will be changed to something better.
MMA gets a fine shortsword, a 16th century steel fluted buckler, and a burgonet.
Here's the short sword and shield for the MAA, the burgonet (above) goes with.
The short sword is a knight's arming sword - Oakeshott XVIIIc, with a modified rapier hilt; the wire is thicker and more compact, making it a weapon fit for the brutality of warfare. It is primarily a fast, stiff, stabbing sword, extremely effective against fully armoured opponents that have fallen from horseback.
The shield is a steel fluted buckler of late 15th century Maximilian design.
Replies
Please don't tell me the Agatha Knight is only 4 feet high.
And, for those who are also in the competition, you may want to take note of these details if you want to strive for historical accuracy, or if you're building a sword of your own IRL.
This is a pretty awful sword, if it was a real one. Luckily, it's not, and it works fine and actually looks pretty good, as a 3d model and art asset to the game. It serves it's purpose in that it looks like a sword at first glance, and not too many know, in detail, how swords really function.
However, the first thing that I noticed was that the pommel is tiny. It's so small, it basically just serves as decoration! Pommels were used to counterbalance the weight of the sword blade.
Here, I've just inserted a cylinder to show you the proper size of a pommel for a sword of this length.
Weight balance is one of those things that make or break swords. Swinging a longsword without a proper pommel would be like swinging around a wood axe, or some farm tool. With a proper pommel, it's more like swinging around a lightsaber, because the blade is counterbalanced.
Next I noticed that the grip looked like it was turned on a lathe. Grips are not cylindrical! On cross-section, they are ovoid. Why are the ovoid, you might ask? Well when your hands and your sword are drenched in blood, you're not going to notice that you're hitting with the flat of your blade until you do (and then you die a horrible, bloody, painful death, because your opponent is still alive after hitting him with the flat of your blade, and is smart enough to use a sword with an ovoid grip).
The ovoid handle allows for precise blade alignment, so that you're always hitting with the sharp ends of your sword.
Another thing is, the blade shape isn't really good for either chopping or thrusting. It isn't a wide or curved sword, so chops and slashes will be mediocre, and also the thickness is fairly consistant, all the way down the blade, so it's going to be a really heavy blade. All in all, this is a fancy looking, metal stick.
Finally, Chivalry is basically all about fighting guys in chainmail, and this tip is not going to pierce chainmail at all. You need a blade with basically a sharpened needlepoint at the end, not a beveled point. A real plate and chainmail piercing, proper English longsword, made by Albion Swords, looks like this:
Almost all of the weight is concentrated around the hilt. It is a simple, incredibly efficient and effective design, made by humans for one reason; to kill other humans. The blade is basically an elongated triangle that can take off a man's fingers or nose with a flick of the wrist, and a point that seems thinner, but is actually quite a thick, brutal bodkin arrow type point. This sword will split chainmail rings, stab straight through any padding, wool, cloth, or leather underneath like butter; it'll skewer the average warrior in Chivalry like a pig on a roast.
And hey, look, the blade is gets quite wide around the middle to the base; guess what that means? Great chopping action.
You only need to stick a human 5 inches in a few times, or get a few deep slashes in, and they're probably not going to make it without immediate medical care.
If everything that has been made for the constest is on this forum, you've basically won. Congratz :P
I think I'm over-thinking the sword, although I'm basically done with the general structure of it.
The 3d model embed button doesn't seem to work for me. It could be because I'm in China, or because I switch back and forth with proxies. =/
But anyway, here's is the sketchfab link!
https://skfb.ly/AZLM
https://skfb.ly/AZQ8
Hahaha, just realized you can wear the helmet by zooming the camera inside, and look out of the visor. It's pretty messy inside though. Make sure to toggle fullscreen mode for flawless Agatha Knight POV mode.
do you plan on making a version of the armor for people who dont like excessive decoration?
I retopo'd the helmet today. There are still a few adjustments to be made, but it's under the 1.2k triangle limit, at 927 triangles. I got rid of the vestigial greek hoplite plume thing... just didn't look right after awhile.
I still kept the forward plumes, which look more natural, and in character with 15th century helmets (although feather plumes are rare, and are almost always attached at the back of the helmet, not the front.)
Anyway, this model still has about 270 triangles I can use, so I'm going to smooth out the plume, and any other silhouette areas.
On a side note, I both really enjoy the helmet knock-off effect, I think it's awesome and really fun, but I'm also annoyed by it, because helmets don't fall off, even after a few swings. They just don't. Otherwise people wouldn't wear helmets... But anyway, this helmet's visor is also modeled to be able to detach.
I probably should have chose a different helmet style, since armets, and parts of armets, are basically impossible to separate from a person's head unless wearer unlatches and pushes in one, or several tough spring pins. Knocking off someone's visor implies you somehow managed to get your weapon firmly stuck in steel, and the ungodly strength to rip it off of two very durable, steel rivets, tearing metal it in the process.
The more likely outcome, if you did have the strength and the correct type of weapon to perhaps puncture a hole in the visor (like a spiked warhammer, polearm, etc), is that you wouldn't tear the visor off, you'd tear the guy's head off too.
This kills the knight.
I've also uploaded it at sketchfab: https://skfb.ly/AZUR
Also, what happened to all the details, fluting and hinges?
I'm afraid your models might stand out too much in comparison with the base game. They have ten times the production quality and accuracy.
If you have time, what do you think of making something equally amazing for the mason order?
This is the original concept of the mason knight they had in their mod.
This is the Agathian one.
In the Mod "Age of Chivalry" the mason knight had a "flamberge" as a weapon.
Looked pretty much like this
Here it is how it looked ingame
I looked it up a bit and found that the "Flamberge" could theoretically be the same lenght as a longsword.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame-bladed_sword
It would be realy sick to see what you could do produce given these images and your skill. I would realy buy the models if they would come out.
mate... age of chivalry was made by the torn banner team themself... and doesn't that flamberge look awefully much like a weapon we already know? a vanguard weapon maybe?
The 3d work I've done here is just a projection of what I've learned IRL how to do; how metal moves and forms under a hammer, advanced 16th century plate articulations, material specifications, proper proportioning, contemporary plate armour decor, etc.
As for a Flamberges / Flammenschwerts, they can be any size. Really, it's just the wavy pattern, and how people call them flamberges, which is just "flame-sword" (the german language is very literal. Bidenhander, or Zweihander literally means two-hand sword). You can have short ones, or longer ones; bidenhanders (zweihanders) with flamberge blades.
Personally, I just like straight, no fuss blades. They're easier to make, easier to sharpen, and look just as, or more elegant. Either a straight stabby blade, a bidenhander, or a tulwar, or some other blade that gives insanely powerful curved slices.
My fourth favorite weapon would be a spetum, which is basically, one longsword and two curved shortswords mounted on a pole, capable of impaling several people with one thrust, or if you miss, you still have an excellent chance of decapitating or dismembering.
And sure, I can go make some mason models too, modeling weapons and armour is like playing minecraft... but more related to my skills, and more fun too.
Here's a suit of armour I was working on a year ago, it isn't really that good. I've learned much more since then and will be making armour again soon as a side hobby, but I'm still setting up my workshop in China.
lol, this is me.
any idea what the purpose of wavy blades are? I read sonewhere it sent uncomfortable vibrations through an enemy arm when blocking, but im not sure that's true
also, how the hell would you fight with a zweih
Here are two people dueling with bidenhanders in full gear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqLZyjfJs0k
And here is a guy training with one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3mSB_IOEUg
It's also a really big sword, so if it manages to land a solid blow once, you're probably either dead, or majorly crippled if you're not wearing full plate armour (and even if you are, it's like getting hit by a 6 foot steel baseball bat, I'd imagine).
I imagine it was also used very similar to a short-ish spear. knights would carry these on horseback, and be able to use them as lances, and they'd still retain effectiveness if dismounted.
However, it does make some sense to use a long weapon, the bidenhander, against a pike; the problem is that pikes can reach lengths of 12+ feet long, and bidenhanders are only 6-7 feet maximum.
This means that for bidenhanders to work against pike formations, the person charging would require plate armour, or lest he be skewered by a dozen pikes all aiming at him.
I could possibly see a knight, man at arms, or other combatant wearing full plate with a bidenhander. A doppelsoldner wearing full plate could theoretically charge into a pike formation with a reasonable chance of survival, long enough to take down a substantial amount of enemy combatants with a 6 foot sword.
Also, I've decided to make a set for each character type of both teams. I probably won't enter them into the competition though, competitions are supposed to be fun. I'll post progress pics on my website, and if you guys and Torn Banner like them enough, maybe they'll be implement them into the store.
Those pictures look sick man, mad respect Zetheros for your ability to acutally make these IRL aswel as in the digital world
I can imagine myself just dressing up in full plate dragon armor for a halloween haha
Do you just do it as hobby or do you make a living out of it?
It would be pretty amazing to see some of these creations in the game. I've sunken 1k in "Age of Chivalry" and 1.2K in Medieval Warfare in total.
I could easily spend some more time playing if I had the right attire and weaponry
Nothing would make the game more enjoyable than cutting up people as a knight with a longsword sized flambard, just like in the Age of Chivalry.
On a side note. I was investigating on what other types of styles would be neat to see in this game.
Seeing as the mason knight wears plated lammelar armor, he kinda represents a more eastern approach of armor as opposed to the traditional full plated knight. I assume he is based on the "Varangian Guard".
They do resemble.
The same kind of armor was being used by Iberian/Middle-Eastern and Eurasiatic armies.
You had a period of over 800 years (700-1500) when Spain was inhabited by predominantly muslim people.
You had the Ottoman Empire which was present in large parts of Europe throught history
So I don't think it would or should feel out of place. You have naked "barbarians" for crying out loud as DLC.
Some examples
I came across this sword that actually exsisted. Pretty interesting for a messer skin imo. Its called a "Zulfiqar" if I'm not mistaken
Anyways I'm done spamming now
Entirely different team that made the game
shortsword does resemble a longsword only its shoter, both straight swords
same for a very long and hand and a half sword flambard, they can resemble but that doesn't make them them the same weapon now does it
8/8 m8
[ame="
Monarchs, nobles, and the rich often had incredibly elaborate suits of armour commissioned (some suits of armour cost as much as an entire castle back then), detailed with classical greek and roman mythos, because they wanted to look really cool and impress ladies and the crowd in court, just like we do!
The main producers of plate armour were from mostly Italy, England, Germany, Spain, and France, I believe. I may have left out one or two; I'm not really an expert on historical accuracy.
And then there's also armour from the Middle East and Asia, but I don't know enough about those types of armour to really comment about them; but it's apparent that they, too, decorated some of their armour to the point of what we'd consider 'fantasy', with their own legends, religions, and symbols.
If you do the research, there are tons of different kinds of armour. The only thing to watch out for is differentiating between reproduction and shoddy craftsmanship, from the real thing.
I also reworked the plume. Still need some more polish work, though.
Without BPR shading.
Not sure if I have time to finish the Nobleman's Guise set, but we'll see.
This is so fun. This is basically my dream job come true, even if I don't win anything xD Armouring IRL is very difficult and dirty work, requiring an immense amount of patience, skill, and hard work. It takes a very long time (sometimes several years) to make anything that looks good too, and so much repetition it'll make your head spin.
Time to make this set much, much better. You guys are daaaaaammnn fierce competitors >:O
Have fun everyone!
Anyway, just a quick update on what I'm doing so far, before I start on low-poly. Making a set for each class of the Agatha, then moving onto sets for Masons.
Due to popular demand, I am making my sets much more realistic, yet also very stylish and well-made. None of that clunky, half-beaten to death armour with tiny nicks and cuts and rust in it everywhere.
Knight gets an armet and a longsword. The shield will be changed to something better.
MMA gets a fine shortsword, a 16th century steel fluted buckler, and a burgonet.
Vanguard gets a sallet and a bidenhander.
Here's the short sword and shield for the MAA, the burgonet (above) goes with.
The short sword is a knight's arming sword - Oakeshott XVIIIc, with a modified rapier hilt; the wire is thicker and more compact, making it a weapon fit for the brutality of warfare. It is primarily a fast, stiff, stabbing sword, extremely effective against fully armoured opponents that have fallen from horseback.
The shield is a steel fluted buckler of late 15th century Maximilian design.
Thanks
Jon