Art degree: How helpful has it been for you?
polycounter lvl 5
Art degree: How helpful has it been for you? How has it been/not been helpful for you?
A) Really Helpful
Not Helpful
C) People just ignore it/ Useful once in a while
D) You have to hide the fact that you ever did it
A) Really Helpful
Not HelpfulC) People just ignore it/ Useful once in a while
D) You have to hide the fact that you ever did it
Replies
The experience, connections and things I learned are helpful to this day. Not the degree itself.
I was only asked for my degree once applying for a position at a digital television channel production/broadcasting studio. The experience was a strange one, like applying for business position in a corporate something. They expected 3-4 pages of resume, wanted to see good grades, had to go through interviews with business people asking me to "market myself" and didn't even ask to see my reel. I declined my position at the end.
* Getting a gig: nope.
* Knowing a whole lot about the art production process in a studio: yes (some other newbies were much more lost than I was : )
* Working in another country: yes. definitely helps with immigration
* Being able to get a MSc after adjusting my career path from art creation towards programming: yes
* Connections: not really
* getting a wider horizon: yes. I got exposed to a lot of things next to just 3D art, such as lighting, cinematography, scripting, video production, working with a green screen, etc.
* Prestige: nope (anyone know some good Ai jokes?
* making me spend a good amount of money: yes. Because I studied in the US. Now that there are some kickass schools I could do this much much cheaper in Europe.
I also have to mention that I got my degree over 10 years ago. The schooling landscape was quite different. I remember Gnomon was just popping up during my studies...
Oops! I was going to put it but it seems it has slipped my mind! :poly122:
Thanks for the replies guys! Keep them coming!
Woah! I think I might do that! Did you have a BSc?
On the other hand, if you are already in the process of getting one or already have one and are not going to put yourself in massive debt, it does not hurt. Not the greatest degree to have overall according to many polls but if it is accredited is better than nothing.To the masses any form of education you can provide is a plus. Opens other areas, for instance if you decide to go for a masters or switch careers, you are looked on as reliable.
With that said, if your betting on an art education to get you your ultimate goal of working as an artist, not recommended on my book.
College really depends on how much effort you decide to put into it and teach yourself, just like those who chose not to pursue getting a degree.
I myself enjoyed it though since its nice to work on developing yourself alongside other people interested in the same things, and learning how to critique each others work for the better. Doesn't hurt when your professors are actually currently active in their respective industries, and my illustration professor made sure to have a lot of visiting artists come into the college to give insights into their lives and how they personally work, of which I probably would of never seen otherwise.
There's also the whole learning about art history part that I really enjoyed, and I think understanding the basics of different types of thought from various art movements certainly helps with it all. IE someone at Irrational Games (RIP you beautiful people) had to of heard of art deco at some point in their lives and I don't think it's too far a stretch in saying they might of first heard about it in an art history lecture.
+The social factor experience, because Animal House is basically four years of college condensed into one small crazy movie
I'm not sure how the games degree colleges are though, I decided to go the BFA Illustration route basically right before all of these schools started popping up, as hey when I was in highschool most of the applications I looked at said BFA Illustration a plus. I probably focused more on traditional art theory than a games degree college and basically taught myself the whole 3d modeling bits and bobs.
On the otherside of things, it's been about a year since I graduated and have been focusing on my portfolio to get some actual finished things in before I start reapplying to studios/looking for open positions. I have been doing some work as an art director at an ad agency but it's project based stuff meaning not a very steady income, and is not where I really want to be. (making advertisements/motion graphics for corporations just feels a bit less I want to do this for the rest of my life, but hey it pays and I got to teach myself rendering animations in Max and getting my own workflow with it and Aftereffects which I probably wouldn't of done otherwise.)
So yeah, everyone's different and so is every college. Research the place before you go.
To sum it all up, college was a great place to open yourself up to things you otherwise had no idea you would be interested in. At least for me.
yes I have. But at the time of getting it my goal was to work as artist, not to change careers later
I think immediately after getting my degree the piece of paper was not of much use, compared to the stuff I actually learned. Later, when I moved to different countries and enrolled for a MSc, the piece of paper became more useful, as the stuff I learned slowly became outdated and superseded by my own experience anyway.
However if you want to travel or work abroad, its vital to have. I don't think its impossible in certain places to get a job, but it makes things very difficult. If you watch the crunch cast with Jon Troy, he actually goes into some detail about on this subject.
yup,
right now i can't get hired fulltime because i don't have a degree, instead i'm doing freelance, it's enjoyable but still wish i was working in studio.
degree is a must if you want to work outside your country.
about anything else, as far as i know, nobody gives a shit as long as your portfolio is good.
I've tried to apply for work within the UK and due to their point system,its impossible to qualify for a work visa since they don't give a single point for 2 year art schools. So in that case you could make a case for the uselessness of my degree or the utter bollocks that is the UKs point system. Special relationship my ass.
We barely recognise US Bachelor's degrees over here either, heh.
I went to the same school Kwramm attended so I've got a BSC in animation.
It didn't help me, except for giving me lots of free time, during which I wasn't expected to get a job. So, I learned a lot on my own, and now I owe them over $100,000. I did enjoy the figure drawing classes, as well as the general-ed classes. Probably should have just gone to a regular college, if that's any indication, haha.
With what I'm earning now (and I have a job in the industry), it's what I earn after 3 years on the job, or so. With what my friends have payed, too, I'm not sure how realistic that is for most.
They way overcharge for a game art degree. It's figuratively ridiculous. I'm currently paying around $400 a month toward student loans, which theoretically will take 275 months to pay off, at my current rate. Which is right around 23 years. Which is One year longer than I've been alive. What. The. Glob.
It's realistic if you avoid private, for profit schools - that's a more USA-centric discussion though.
Sorry about the situation. Sadly those that continue with choosing career paths that don't have a return value or how no importance in society are going to be much worst in the future. With were things are heading, is going to hit even harder.
Wanted to add, art schools in particular are soo expensive that you imagine there would be a lavish career in return, but instead is the opposite and artist are still in the old cliche of "Starving Artists".
Some articles worth eying if your interest on the future market and how some current positions are viewed.
College Degrees
The future of work: A journey to 2022
So yeah the USA education machine can go fuck itself.
I know people who loved their (legit) art degree, I know people who hated their (legit) art degree and swear it gave them nothing they didn't already know and no better chance to get a job. Hell, I know a few who said it hindered them. I think any knowledge, though, is a plus.
My personal experience is that I'm not an academic so an "art degree" wouldn't help me too much, more like make me hate my life. It's subjective. (EDIT: Though perhaps having a degree might make some employers view you more highly if you had one, but I'm not those employers so I can't answer that!)
Yup sad thing is the schools lie straight to your face and can get away with it. Oh we have a 95% placement rate or we have the best teachers a great program blah blah blah, by the time you figure it out your already balls deep in debt.
What is worse is that the school have no one to answer to, take the Art Institutes, the program is terrible they lie to all students and 1 out of 100 get a job yet they can continue to keep lying and no one can do anything about it. Its crazy that we are expected to pay our loans back even tho we got a beyond sub standard education.
The entire US Education system is a sham, designed to keep money if the pockets of those lenders. I should not be suffering because i chose to get a higher education yet my quality of life has massively decreased
I had friends that got Masters degrees paid through grants and scholarships - typically if you're paying full price it's because you chose a private for profit school or you're rich, white and have no disabilities.
Yes art schools and liberal art school can be a brutal business. My issue is not much of the expenses or the degree, but rather the return value. For instance if you take careers in medicine, many end up in massive 6 figure debts of loan, but due to their positions(doctors, surgeons, etc) they can paid it off and continue with a well deserved career.
An art degree on the other is just asking for a life of regret deep down inside, but than again you brought the point that the schools being a business sugarcoat reality. So fake promises such as awesome career stability, great placement, etc can lead new comers to not see the true identity behind being an artist.
In time, technology and development will bite them back.
Yeah, but how many doctors, engineers, nurses and math professors can do game art?
Game art, a lot of people. Poly modeling a ton of people, LOL.You do not need to be in AAA company to create your own game, or make a prop and send it to Unreal Engine 4. Download a few tutorials follow through and boom. Sure not the best quality but apply 4 hours every week and you got yourself a hobby while doing your main career on the side.
Now if we reverse that statement, I can not perform the duties of doctor both at a low level or high level.
Exactly.
Nobody with a doctor's degree, lawyers degree, math teacher's degree can get art jobs if they have no worthwhile art portfolios to show. So their advanced degrees are just as useless for game art career (except "e-learning" fields) as from those who have art degrees but still having weak portfolios.
Eh, take a weekend first aid course and you can do the duties of a doctor as a low level. Nor would it take that long to learn how to diagnose the majority of diseases.
What makes medicine a difficult field to enter is less that it's innately hard, but that people are (rightfully) very picky about who is allowed to perform medical services. If you look in some of the poorer parts of the world, you'll see people with less than a full high school education and a single year of job training doing wonders to reduce the death rate.
skyline5gtr: update that friggin portfolio!
Your missing the point, as a lawyer why would you want to work in games or as a doctor why would you switch that career for working in games. If you want to do 3D or make a game, get familiar with a tutorial. In the past when I attended a few global game jams, I have been paired or met folks that are just in it as a hobby no reason to jump in especially with how things are. Your jobs does not always define your passion, in other words if I know why I know now, I would do a more lavish field and on cold fuzzy nights create 3D content. And your job that does not define your passion is not always miserable, hope that makes sense.
I really hope your are not comparing the difficulty of art to something like medicine:poly122:. I will just leave it here, you need higher education (2-4)to make decent wage and 8 years minimum to have great earnings in the US.
You did wrote the following:
Sure, lots of people want high paying careers but not everybody have the interest or financial resources to go to med or law school.
And I don't agree with your art degree statement. Kekai Kotake and Adi Granov both went to AI Seattle (but not the same time). They're considered to be successful in their fields. I don't think they'd attribute their present skills to their AI classes from years ago, but it did help them kick start their individual careers.
Also if you look at the linkedin details of some Sr. artists in North America, most if not all of them have art degrees from their countries of origin. And the international guys who don't have degrees have at least over 10 years of related work experience before they were able to work for US studios IN the US (not counting genius artists of course).
Those sure are expensive, so are the art schools.
Back on the topic, some have made it work well, this poll can give a hint. My opinion, even from my first comment is not a pure hate towards getting a degree but rather the expectations of thinking an art degree is a prior step to an art job. With that said I would not recommend it to either my kids or close friends. Not worth it, with all the information that is open.
Degree really didn't get me my job, nor the art skills. Internship and PC wiki did the majority of that.
Instead, I got a lot of the other stuff; self-motivation, social confidence, leadership opportunities.
It's hard to get that stuff when you're alone or even through a community college. I did the community college thing and all you learn is how to drink more and sleep less.
But having it happen in a classroom full other people interested in the same subject, with the same passion? You'd be surprised how easy it is to get up for class everyday knowing you get to be around a bunch of creative people all day.
So yea, I could probably backspace the degree off my resume and still get an opportunity, but when I'm in that room full of talented artists trying to sell myself? It's just like being back in the classroom.
this is my experience so I didnt do the poll. The course was a bit rubbish but the things I taught myself and the time I had to compete in dominance wars and stuff was priceless.
Every day man every day I keep trying more and more
agree!
In the early 80's M.I.C.A didn't have a computer graphics program. And you had just as much chance of being a successful graphic designer as u did a pro baseball star. The prestigious art colleges did not try to sucker u into any illusions either. You were told right away that u were choosing a life of burger flipping.
( there was not the opportunities alot take fer granted today ).
The artists that blew me away and got press ( got good reviews myself with no $$$ to show fer it ) did not have any "real" success offering independance
( some with works in permanent collections at major museums and even retrospectives )
Although some were lucky enough to teach.
Yet thats what u adopted because "it wasn't a matter of choice"...
You were an artist. The best institutions had living legends in their faculties and it was a privilige to just get accepted. Convincing family members that the disturbing art habit wasn't going away and would be one's life pursuit was like convincing them that being a farm animal porn star would be a peachy future. As punishment in pre-school my parents would not allow me to have any paper
( got around this by drawing in the blank pages of encyclopedias and then onto the printed pages when that ran out ).
When that passion turned into the expense of college some seem to consider such a waste...
I was kicked out of the house. Living on my own in low income settings at 18 allowed me more financial aid options however and I worked my way through college as factory security graveyard shifts where they were happy to have me paint cuz they knew i wouldn't sleep on the job.
The majority of students were rich kids who had their way paid but considering the economic reality of the time...
I felt far from alone. I imagine 20% of us were subscribing to poverty fer arts sake. easily.
Fast forward to today and I gotta wonder...
when did artists become such pussies?
If we are not apologizing for art for giving gameplay herpes then we are dismissing it's merits as a serious academic endeavor? As if a medical degree was any more prestigious than an MFA from YALE? Why? Because a doctor holds yer life in his hands? Whose to say that an interactive immersive artform does not evolve someday that inspires and gives ultimate meaning to that life? As an artist it is not yer job to apologize for art. You insult a long history that holds it to be the highest ideal attainable.
Not speaking fer myself... but for example sake:
Ken Levine went to Vassar and
Tim Shafer went to Berkeley and
everyone that sat in a cubicle and suffered through their notorious crunches went to the Art Institute.
yep yep... :poly142:
Price for a degree in India is 4600 USD from where I did it (Arena Animation). It's mostly degree for degree sake and I am having to learn a lot afterwards. while DSK Supinfogame seems better and it 13200 USD. I wasnt even taught anatomy in my classes I bet this is better. Some international students also go there...
A lot of responses seem to be a degree only helps for official purposes and the rest you've gotta work out on your own.
Maybe the state of art education is so because of very few educators... Or at least very few good educators.. Medicine and engineering education is not only everywhere but there are so many of them it isn't a challenge to find good ones who can teach. While there are so few artists and thus the cost for hiring them increases leading to increase in course cost...
I feel the fact that a student passed out last year can so readily become accepted as a senior educator in most institutions is quite telling. While in medicine or eng you need degrees higher than a bachelors at least to teach.