Should I attend a "3d animation" school if I want Entertainment Design/Art/Concept?
Hey guys!
Before anything, as the "don't go to art school" idea is pretty much widespread, I don't wanna go to a school for the education only, but rather to get visa/work permit/networking conditions easily. I want to use the opportunity to go to a school in US/CA so I can later immigrate there.
I hope you can shed some light on my career/school path doubts here! I'm still and amateur, trying to learn a bit by myself but I REALLY think attending a school/college/UN would be beneficial for me.
Throughout a year and so of constant research and just letting the idea of working in the art world grow in my mind, I finally realized I want to work with entertainment concept and visualization for ads, films and games. I want to be able to merge 3d knowledge, photo-bashing, painting to create stuff. I like to paint digitally and to model things!
However, I really can't find an affordable Entertainement Design school like Gnomon, Art Center, FZD. I've narrowed it down to Canada mostly, as prices are lower there, but even in the US, can't seem to find anything.
So I'm leaning towards going to a regular 3d animation school, even though I want nothing to do with animation, thinking I'll be able to take advantage of the courses anyway.
Does that all make sense? Or should I keep searching?
ps: If anyone knows a nice entertainment design school in Canada, please share!
Before anything, as the "don't go to art school" idea is pretty much widespread, I don't wanna go to a school for the education only, but rather to get visa/work permit/networking conditions easily. I want to use the opportunity to go to a school in US/CA so I can later immigrate there.
I hope you can shed some light on my career/school path doubts here! I'm still and amateur, trying to learn a bit by myself but I REALLY think attending a school/college/UN would be beneficial for me.
Throughout a year and so of constant research and just letting the idea of working in the art world grow in my mind, I finally realized I want to work with entertainment concept and visualization for ads, films and games. I want to be able to merge 3d knowledge, photo-bashing, painting to create stuff. I like to paint digitally and to model things!
However, I really can't find an affordable Entertainement Design school like Gnomon, Art Center, FZD. I've narrowed it down to Canada mostly, as prices are lower there, but even in the US, can't seem to find anything.
So I'm leaning towards going to a regular 3d animation school, even though I want nothing to do with animation, thinking I'll be able to take advantage of the courses anyway.
Does that all make sense? Or should I keep searching?
ps: If anyone knows a nice entertainment design school in Canada, please share!
Replies
The 3d stuff and programs you can learn on your own. There's so much information, tutorials, etc. available online now.
Also, you don't have to get a degree to make it in the industry. Remember a considerable amount of weight is placed on your actual portfolio. And getting a degree certainly will not make you automatically eligible to get a job in the industry.
I am taking a Digital Arts degree right now. There is 1 other student that is somewhat interested in game art out of the 30. Most of the students don't even take art seriously anyways.. Really depressing to go to classes with people I can't nerd out about 3d art... I end up learning everything and talking to people online as a result.. It's really lame. I've met some cool people outside of art but in the end art is all that really matters..
Don't do it UNLESS you can find an amazing school. Mediocre schools will waste your time with all of the bullshit required courses and you probably won't get any good contacts.
However one of my side dreams is to live abroad, move to another country like US/CA (shouldve mentioned that) and the best way accomplish that by studying where I want to live, do some networking, contacts, connections, even for visa stuff. Even Grasseti said that's exactly what he would do if he was starting out. So in my case is not only about the skillz and knowledge, there's that side as well.
Also, I do plan on taking some time before and after school to practice on my own of course, to start ahead and to polish my future portfolio up.
That being said I still really need to find a decent school to attend though. Fully opened to recommendations!
Find THE BEST school you can in Canada. Not like a good school, THE BEST. If you can't get in, spend a year working on some 3d stuff until you're good enough. I was a crappy artist (not an artist) before I went to school. If I would have spent a year building a better portfolio I probably could have gotten into a much better school.
It's nuts how the high costs of private schools have sort of dominated the whole discussion of higher education in the US. Non resident tuition for an undergraduate degree at the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities = $19,805
from here, it's UT's site so it's obviously pushing itself as the best deal.
Why did you mention Canada exclusively (and not the US)?
And yes, by trying to find the best school I end up back with my first question
Take Sheridan for example. One of the best in Canada but all 3 programs (Animation, Game Design and Illustration) have at least half of their curriculum totally disposable to me. They are 4 year lengthy and effort-demanding courses which I won't be getting back what I'm paying for. I dont want to animate, I dont want to design a game, code or script and I don't want to ONLY illustrate. If they merged the 3 together, oh god that would be awesome.
But see, difficult choice for me.
If schools in the U.S are on the table as well. You shoud look at Art Center College of Design. Oh my god, the amount of talent in that school... *drool*
Ben Mauro, Gavril Klimov, Daniel Jin Park
If I couldn't make it all the way to Italy I would go to an Atelier closer to home. At the very least I would go through the Bargue manual on my own.
There are so many resources out there for learning to draw and paint it's crazy, the hard part is getting informed critique. For that you need the attention of someone who knows what they are doing and who is invested in you getting better. Typically that means paying someone to give a damn. Look into Ateliers, they are classical art training programs with much higher standards than any institution that offers a degree. Some are even teaching digital painting now.
With art, you are better off not going to college, because the field is not the same as others. In other industries you actually mean something with a degree, even more with a masters, and so forth.
I mentioned this before on another post. In this industry Luck comes before Skill, and Skill comes before a Degree. Here you can have a degree and not peak 60k, or even worst continue to struggle forever. I have seriously come across art teachers that barely make it, is sad.
If you are super incline and under the pressure of going to school, do it for something meaningful. You will be assured a healthy career and can still do 3D on the side. The choice is yours, just a warming, just be ready to grind like a slave. AKA "A labor of love" if you make entertainment your desired career. Best of luck
The rule of thumb is your student debt should not exceed your first year salary - so I agree that a $100k art degree is a joke, if you're going to spend that much go to Harvard Business School.
I agree with that. I'm actually gonna edit the first post to add that my 2nd goal with college/UN/school is actually to facilitate my way into living abroad. The easiest way to do that is by attending a school, rather than staying a home studying and waiting half a decade so my work is good enough to foreigner studio decide to hire (and take care of immigration papers).
So for me, school will be actually a ticket to a new life in a new country, alongside the benefit of education, even though I could probably spend less and get more by studying alone. But then I'd be stuck in my country. Therefore, since I'm working my ass of right now to save money, I really don't want to spend it in any shitty school, just for the sake of the visa.
In other words, just gotta find a good school with a nice program aimed at entertainment art.
Best of luck man and I mean it, to put all those plans on an art school than career, I seriously hope it works out.
If art is what you crave I can only recommend Pasadena Art Center and Gnomon School. Hope your wallet is really fat for what is ahead.
And there's just a lot of risks in that plan. You basically think it's a good idea to pay 100k for connections. College connections are fickle. You really need luck to make the right friends who have the right skills, end up at the right company and then, on top, actually like to have you as a friend (*). What if that doesn't work out? What if your folio is, despite your best attempts still not quite industry ready (you wouldn't be the first one)? Then you go back home and got zero advantage from having studied in the US. Having a US degree, having studied in the US, gets you absolutely no benefit for future immigration.
If you're an EU citizen, living abroad is easy, as long as you have a good folio. If you have a very good folio and degree and/or work experience, then other countries open up, such as Canada, US, China.
Baby steps, and patience will get you where you want to go without spending an arm and a leg.
(*) and while I'd help a friend to navigate the bureaucracy of a place I'd work at to get to HR, I wouldn't recommend hiring anyone without the right folio and skills. You're not doing yourself nor your friend a favor.
edit: also, you might want to look into some job profiles found in games and get a better idea of what jobs are available. Right now it looks like you want to be some "idea guy" / concept artist?
First off, some respect would be nice. I do my best to back my comments, I am simply trying to help the guy. From my experience in the field and things I and many others have witness.
As an artist myself I am won't sugar coat with PR nonsense and say that this path is amazing. I will be blunt, is brutal, laboring, and for the unfortunate others not being financially stable or paid worthy for all the sweat we shed.
This is an example, of why I am wishing him good luck and why risking it on an art school and career is very volatile.
Lastly not once, have I felt I have disrespected anyone here and if I have I would be the first to apologize since I carry no shame in being mature.
But let's narrow it down to Canada from now on. Canada is different. I can actually get a work permit after graduating.
Everybody here seems to say that for every single "new" economy sector emerging. It's actually hilarious. Who knows, maybe it is, but certainly gonna take some time so things catch up. It's all baby level, at least art related. Almost no big productions and artwork from the few indie studios lacks appeal. Many top-notch artist have already left or freelance for foreigners. People who stay here are the ones that love the country, which I really DO NOT.
Also, even if there was tons of work opportunities here, it's just not worth it. I don't like how things roll down here. It's a mess.
But hey, let's not deviate!
dumb rule, this need to be changed...
online game revenues hit $1.4 billion in 2013, the fifth biggest games market in the world. I'm not trying to dissuade you from traveling abroad, I'm just jealous, you're in a pretty good position to come back. If I spoke the language I'd take a senior role in Brazil.
http://www.nait.ca/78124.htm
Tuition info including for internationals in Canadian dollars: http://www.nait.ca/78131.htm
It's a decent program for the price, which you can supplement with reputable online courses like those offered by futurepoly, cgma or gnomon.
You want costlier brand name schools like VFS and Sheridan, just check out other animation programs where they are located (Vancouver, Toronto). You speak French, check out NAD in Montreal. Not sure if they're still calling themselves Ubisoft U.
There are 6 months for-profit programs but I don't recommend those. You can get the same results by just watching youtube tutorial videos.
If you're really hard core...yeah, try Sheridan or ACAD (lots of Bioware concept artists are alumnis) or consider industrial design programs from the big universities. But realize that their application process requires you to have a serious art portfolio (figure drawing, perspective drawings, etc.).
Haha no way man! You'd regret that after 2 weeks, max! It's really not how they pictured in the world cup, and I live in a city praised for being one of the most "european" ones in Brazil. I've had so much bitter down here that when I first went to Toronto/London/SF/NY, I realized exactly how sugar tasted like!
Dude awesome info! Thanks a lot! I've never heard of ACAD! Gonna take a good look at it.
VSF and Sheridan programs, unfortunately, focus too much on the animation or the technical aspects of game design, rather than on the cool art part of those fields.
I'm considering VanArts game art & design program. Lots of attention to ART! Yay.
The secret to success at VFS is you already know your way around maya and zbrush before getting in. You just use their industry contacts and sponsored events to network and introduce yourself and portfolio. And use studio time to perfect your reel.
Within Europe you don't need a visa to work and live in another EU country. Yet you can experience the full living abroad experience: different language, mentality, food, language and laws. It's a pretty easy and hassle free way to find out if you actually like the whole "living abroad" thing.
But yes, as Brazilian this doesn't apply.