Need your guys help on my character!

Pain

Hello guys,

I'm been playing with Zbrush for a few months, but I've always sculpted creature, monsters. So this time I'm serious getting into a human but I feel like I got some problems with anatomy, especially for the face.
I do use some references while sculpting but it just doesn't seem right:poly127:. So I hope you guys could point out my problem.

Here is my character

Pain

A few updates for the head today . Looks like it's better than the previous one but I'm still not satisfied with the result though. Beside, I always feel my head character gets bad if I append sphere for the eyes >"<.

Any crits would be appreciated.

praetus

I'm not traditionally a character modeller so my critiques may be a bit off. I'll try anyways. The basic proportions for anatomy are off. The bottom of the ear lobe should blend into the back of the jaw. The neck should blend into the bottom of the jaw a bit more. The eyelids are just thrown on top of the face. The don't feel as though they're a part of anything as there is no blend. Most of your secondary details feel like they're just thrown onto the face and you're missing the correct primary proportions. I would use a mesh with less topology to practice nailing out those forms as much as possible before subdividing.

Pain

Ya, you're right, also I didn't focus much on the neck and the ear yet . I will try to delete the higher subdividing and go back to the low one then nailing out the form as you said. It seems like I was too hurry to get into the high subdivision :poly121:.

Thanks so much for your crits .

slosh

Look at something like planes of the head to get a basic breakdown of the head. Then just get lots of reference of muscle structure and real people to sculpt the proper anatomy and how skin and muscle lay over the skull.

Pain

Thanks for your suggestion slosh. Here is what I've just done following your planes of the head but just on the left side of the above reference because I find the right side is so complex .
I'm planning to get some muscles and skin over it today .

Pain

Hello guys,
A few updates tonight.
good night everyone :poly121:

DireWolf

Something about the side view feels real weird to me. Do you have a reference you can overlay on top to check proportions?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Fogbrain

From the side it appears the neck goes too far in and thus the front of the face extends too far out. Find the head shape you need from reference and try to mimic that as much as possible, theres no shame going hardcore on the reference as long as you learn.

Pain

Wow thanks for all of your feedback guys. It's truth that I didn't use much reference. I just got the skin and muscle overlay on my plane head as what I know about the head. I always think I need to sculpt what I know not what I see, I was thinking if I keep sculpting with reference then I couldn't create something creative, something from my mind.
And now after all of your guys feedback it seems like I was totally wrong. I'm gonna try to fix it now :poly124:.

Thanks again :thumbup:.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Pain

Hello guys, long time no update :poly121:.
Here is my new head, I think it's better than all of my previous ones LOL. But still I need your guys crits on it so I can get better :poly124:.

Lombos

Definitely looking better. Heres a quick photoshop tweak.

DireWolf

Good observation on the nostril and lips. However you're going into details too soon, underlying skeletal structure are still missing. You will need to introduce them with stronger planes and angles.

Take a look at an example here, you can clearly tell where the bones are. The skin details should only be done after this stage.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HB470jVWLqM/SxJeyWWcwGI/AAAAAAAAAh4/tFDqn0s2ZSk/s1600/Jnoblehead2.jpg

Check out Grassetti's tutorial.
https://gumroad.com/grassetti

Pain

Your guy has a better looking, lol. But does that mean my guy above had some problem about anatomy or it's just human who has many different shapes .

Deathstick

The eye socket/cheek bone could use a little more definition, right now I have a feeling his face would light rather strangely/too smooth with the current shallow surface in that area.

It's looking miles better than the first post though, keep it up!

Oh, and you can make a character "ugly" or I'd rather call it "interesting" if you want as to the above comment. But his anatomy would still have to make sense and follow the rules of skeletal structure, otherwise he'll just look like artificial clay.

garriola83

From the side view, the inner eye, lacrima puncta, seems to be showing. That is not the case in a standard human profile view.

It actually should looks like a triangle shape. I think you need to look at references and really dissect the planes, bones, muscles and fatty deposits of the face. This is all very easy now with the help of the web, and, of course, polycount.

DireWolf

Regardless of anatomical difference, human heads are all have skeletal structure beneath and you need to portray that. there are always the hardness of bones vs the softness of skin on any head.

Your sculpt looks quite similar to Patrick so maybe this will give a better idea.
See the hardness of cheek bone under the eye. And see how the skin beneath the cheek bone is soft.
http://blenderartists.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=87043&d=1255525786

Pain

@DireWolf: The guy in your example looks fat,an so his cheek is. Is it a reason why he's showing a lot of underlying skeletal structure as you mentioned :shifty:?
Also thanks for the link, his tutorial looks awesome.
edited: Yeah, Patrick clearly show the hardness of cheek bone, it's a good reference for me to follow :poly142:.
How about this guy: http://img.poptower.com/pic-117898/sung-kang.jpg?d=1024
I think his face is not shaped so much and soft, so it's hard to see the underlying skeletal structural.

@Deathstick: Thanks for your feedback. I think it's easy for me to make a guy with gaunt face, so it'd be easily showing the skeletal structure :poly141:.

@garriola: Thanks, but could you please overpaint where is the triangle shape as you mentioned? I'm little confused .

garriola83

You should not see the tear duct from the side view. Yours does. Make sure you look at references and see the differences from your modeling to the refs.

DireWolf

They are there Pain. Softer angles, not very sharp edges but the plane changes are there.

What you also need to be aware of is lighting, especially beauty shots like these where they use large, soft light which minimize shadows and is not the best way for studying form. And I'm sure you've seen pictures of girls faking light/shadow with make ups before.


To help artist see forms, you'll rarely see life drawing session with more than 2 lights, mostly just 1 spot light with hard shadow. Changing the light's direction can have huge impact on forms you can see.


That is why it is important for us to know the anatomy and structure beneath. Because what we see can easily lead us to the wrong interpetration.

Pain

@garriola83: awesome, that small detail that I didn't aware of:poly127:, now I get it thank u .
@DireWolf: Damn right, your old man pic tells everything, I was trapped by light's direction when I was looking at my reference, it's sure look very flat. I think I should look at the ref in many different angle/light to analyze the underlying structure.
Thanks for your clear explanation, it does help me a lot :poly142:.

Pain

Hello guys,
Long time no see, today I'm digging this thread up. It's been 3 months I didn't practice anything on Zbrush . Yes it's sad, I was so lazy until recently I decided to come back and practice more on anatomy. When I look back at this thread I'm so happy that I've been improved something on my own. But all top of that I need you guys criticize to help me better :poly124:.
Thanks in advanced

Pain

The thread is fading so fast, thumb this up .

Catzcratch

" The thread is fading so fast, thumb this up "
thats why i like this forum

" I didn't practice anything on Zbrush "
lair hehe
looking at the start and end of this thread .. huge improvements man . well done
i wish i could improve this much in 3 months

it appears that he is cross eyed . people eyes are slightly rotated outward .
and looking at this side view ..the transaction from his shoulder to back make it looks like he doesnt have a shoulder blade . maybe its just the view .. also i think his back needs to go a little bit forward

other than that . some small parts here and there ( nose - ear )
can we see the reference your working from ?

Jakub

Hello! Great improvement, I know how hard it is, as I just started learning anatomy myself.

On your last pic, I think that you should take a look at the frontal bone(it is a bit narrower) and the way it connects to zygomatic.

Also take a look at your ear, as it shouldn't curve like that and I don't really like the jaw from the side view. Males tend to have strong, square jaw and it is almost always seen, even on the side view.

Remember to use references, you don't have to do a likeness sculpt, but you can always look at Channing Tatum and use his jaw in your sculpt.

Skull

Male side view

Male/Female Compare

Pain

@CatZcratch: Thanks for your comment, despite I don't get your point at the eyes yet . And I dont really have a specific reference, I picked a lot of ref on google and look at all of them to sculpt .
@Jakub: Thanks for your crits, I've just refined something as your suggestion.

And here is the new one. I've redefined the jaw, nose, ears, turn off symmetry to adjust something for more nature looking. Please give me more crits :poly124:.

Chantel-sky

hmm.. I think the chin needs to come out more and I'd move the ears up a little bit.

Your eyes appear to be a bit small too.

You might find this useful https://www.anatomy4sculptors.com/anatomy.php click secrets tab and then head and neck

Catzcratch

what i meant was that with the current eye he will look cross eyed .. its a little hard to see because it is a clay render . but once you add texture to the eye it will be noticeable
easy to fix by rotating both his eyes outward just a little

here is a quick gif

Jakub

As said above, you need to work on your eyes, they seem to be too small and chin has to go out a little bit more.

You need to take a look at front of your face and skull shapes, I tried to mask it out for you