GameSalad vs. Stencyl? Others?
polycounter lvl 6
Do you guys have a preference? Reviews? Pros Cons? I've tried Stencyl and i'm not sure it was intuitive enough or it was broken haha. The tutorials didn't really show too much either.
But I really want to make a game on my own as a personal project, but don't know what program to use
But I really want to make a game on my own as a personal project, but don't know what program to use
Replies
Full Disclosure: I am not a robot.
Sounds like overkill. I only see Unreal recommended as the full-stop-only-engine-you-should-consider by artists, especially ones focused on AAA art pipelines.
There was a thread about this on TIGsource and it seemed to come down to Gamemaker & Unity being the two big recommendations. Game Maker has been around for a while so there's a lot of documentation & community built around it plus some very high profile games where made with it like Spelunky, Hotline Miami and Hyper Light Drifter, to name a few.
Everything is context sensitive too so it won't even show you the options that aren't relevant by default.
Do yourself a favor and get Unreal 4. It is 100% capable of making anything from AAA+ to Flippidy Fowls or whatever.
I just told this to my coworkers and everyone laughed.
Eventually you will want to code something. Game Maker, Stencyl, and Unity all allow you to get into the code GML (Game Maker Language) in the case of Game Maker, C#, UnityScript, or Boo in the case of Unity, and Haxe in the case of Stencyl. GML and C# will have the most tutorials around so probably the best choice for a beginner. Haxe and Boo will have the least tutorials.
If your end goal is to make 3D games as a beginner, your best bet will be Unity.
I wouldn't recommend Unreal 4. Once you need to code it'll be C++ which is known to be a really hard programming language to learn for a beginner.
Thank you for telling me.
Though with that said using Blender Game Engine to make games would be kind of off the beaten path...
The whole thing is mostly If, Then. If Else. And stuff like that.
It can make browser-based game, action, arcade, racing, strategy, platformer, and so on.
It can also export onto iOS, and Android device easily. Among many others.
My roots are in blender game engine.It is extremely intuitive in the sense that you model what you want and animate and bake and paint and sculpt all right there inside of your levels and play them right there in the same viewport.
But still gotta give it to Unreal 4. Logic bricks are nice and so is Python. But Blueprint is far more powerful and easier to use too. Unless someone want to explain to me why *learning* anything else would be more favorable to someone in the long run I'm going to go ahead an continue to say that Unreal 4 is the undisputed world champion of game engines currently. Really, I'm open to learning. Unreal 4 didn't even exist on my radar until a few months ago.
I never realized I was a hipster? Guess I better grow a beard now.
I'll preface this by saying I don't have much experience with visual scripting systems. IIRC I mostly used Kismet with UE3 to control triggers, physics, enemy spawning, environment animations, etc...
My reasoning against recommending Unreal 4 to the OP is that as with any visual scripting system eventually you'll have to do something that is very inefficient or impossible to do without code. For the OP (someone who doesn't know programming at all) C++ will be like hitting a brick wall. All the other engines have much easier programming languages to deal with at that point. Though Haxe/Stencyl is somewhat debatable due to lack of community/tutorials/documentation.
If the OP had some background in programming then sure go with UE4, learn some C++ along the way, no problem. At some point I bet someone will make some Lua bindings for UE4, that'll open it up to anyone, but for now C++ is a really hard thing for a novice to deal with even though at first it's nicely hidden away by Blueprints.
I see visual scripting as an awesome way to get up to and through the prototyping phase of development, really quick and easy to get things running, really fast iteration time. But once you get past that step to the point of actual production and later optimization you'll want to be doing it through code. All engines have limits, you need to code to work around them, visual scripting won't cut it.
One other thing is that UE4 is rather new and likely has many undocumented bugs. It's really frustrating as a beginner to run into bugs that no one else has encountered and you can't find immediate solutions for. The other engines (especially Game Maker, and Unity, but not so much Stencyl) have been around longer and been battle tested to one degree or another so bugs are rare or already have known workarounds/fixes.
It seems like it was more of an experiment with making a realtime co-op development software but it's got visual scripting and a really simple cube based modeler and animator. You probably won't be useful it for any super big games but it can be great for messing around with simple ideas.
http://craftstud.io/
Games are playable in browser as well which can be great for game jams as well.
The process revolves around if and then. So for example, if right arrow key is pressed, then asset moves right. This is all done with drag and drop boxes to create a user friendly system and all the code is written by the software behind the scenes.
Gamesalad is a solid piece of software if you aiming to do a simple 2D game or create a proof of concept.
We have developed an app that allows you to make mobile games and other interactive apps. It is very powerful. Features a visual behaviour system, physics engine.
Later this week we're launching the ability for you to export your creations and publish them to the App Store.
Our site is www.tappabl.com it will soon be renamed to HyperPad (www.hyperpad.com). Don't mind the "interactive books" tone, it will be changed with the launch of our export feature. Trust me it can be used for games, we have had a "Game" version of the app live in the App store for the past year, it is called GamePress (www.gamepressapp.com).
Our goal was to basically match every feature that GameSalad has, but on the iPad. We pretty much did that. We're also constantly updating. Upgrading the engine now for better performance, then later this year rewriting the engine for cross platform capabilities, and awesome things like shaders.
Here are a few games created on our platform:
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I'm working on little 3D games now, so I use Unity + PlayMaker.
Look brosuf, I'm just trying to help you.
Do a search for "Introduction to Particles in UE4 - 1 - Particle Terminology" it should take you to a youtube video that just might blow your mind. The Documentation in UE4 just might be the most advanced thing about the game engine. :poly142:
Watch the first one!
Dude, don't be like me and spend so much time in the wrong game engine. Many game engines out there are cool but this is definitely the one everyone should want =p
Maybe it seems too good to be true? That's why some resist. (My money is still on the hipster effect:poly124:)
I honestly sometimes wished that I stuck with doing 2D games when I was younger instead of gettign obsessed with Quake & Unreal modding, I could have probably been a successful indie developer :P
Wow, I mean. I seriously don't get your point. You do know that it is possible to have been following and anticipating UE4 since before its release? My point still stands that I wasn't paying any attention to Epic's goings on until after the release of UE4.
You brilliant man.
What isn't subjective is that this poor guy trying to figure out which engine to use is best off learning to use ONE engine for his game, not bouncing between several over the course of the coming months. I acknowledge the usefulness and merits of a lot of the game engines out there. But in so far as giving recommendations to someone who has to learn a new engine in order to use it, I can't see any engine outshining UE4. On tutorials alone, nevermind anything else.
For industry dinosaurs, (okay, industry giants =p) who can weave magic out of anything they get their hands on, sure it's a different issue altogether and I never would tell one of those guys that they can't do whatever they want to do. I just wouldn't agree with them that's all. I mean there is a stubborness that goes along with age and experience as well.
I admit that I could be wrong. But I also want to help the OP. I believe UE4 is his best solution! Stick to that. Don't go ape falling in love with X engine for A and Y engine for B. Learn UE4.
-peace
You can also save yourself about $100 bucks on it if you do Brandon Wu's Skillshare Unity course. You could also just pay the $15 for the course just to nab the Playmaker plugin, but it's a pretty decent way to get up to speed with the basics of simple game design, particularly if you're a little slow on the uptake of this technical malarkey, like me.
Fuuuuu.. Are you serious? I just bought 2 licenses. T_T
I need to get one more though, thanks!
Edit:
It says "Students will be provided a special student version of the popular Unity 3D Tool - PlayMaker!"
What's the difference?
Edit2: (note: student version not for commercial use)
I should probably just read shit, huh? :P
Anyways rant here.
Learning the most complicated engine that has all the bells and whistles is a bad idea for new people and here is why. Abstraction hides complexity, and hinders understanding, so if the question is, "what is the path of least resistance to making a game from scratch?", then sure choose an engine that has all the bells and whistles, and handles things for you. Perhaps an engine like UE4 is a good choice in that hypothetical.
However if you want to truly learn how to make games, and not be beholden to a single companies tech. If you want to learn how to architecture game elements and why doing things one way is faster than another then the best bet is to choose an engine where it's guts are exposed elegant and simple.
In the end if you want to make things that are worthwhile for people to experience, you have to pay your dues. Do the work, and understand what is going on.
The reason why us guys that have made games before, can repeat the same magic regardless of technology is that we actually understand how this stuff works.
Anyway, i'm going to throw my reccomendation to LOVE2D. It's a scripting based engine, but it's super awesome has a great community and i can't think of a better first language than LUA.
If it turns out right keep working with it. If not, hell find another one.
Believe me. The only true way is this.
Sorry dude, you'r efanboying here from the start with awesome substance like "nobody but hipsters" would use a different solution.
Seems legit, given your background. May I ask how many games you shipped?
Or lets narrow it down, how many games you worked on that got shipped, did use UE4? Zero I assume - but I might be wrong.
From all i could gather you're saying this from an artists point of view? As an artist i would recommend UE4 in a heartbeat. But knowing how young the engine still is and beingpart of a few UE4 productions. Right now i would recommend Unity. Especialy for a one man army. UE4 is not there YET but i would love to see it growing strong again.
It seems to me, that both yourself and the OP would be a lot better off if you'd use fewer words to try to tear me down, and more to try to build Unity up. Since you say that is what your recommendation is. Though it seems some of you guys communicate more fluently in memes than in actual English. If that is the case, then just post a giant picture of kitten trapped inside of box that expresses to you how powerful Unity can be.
Look the OP is searching for an engine which is simple to learn competent in 2d most likely, given the examples he had in the Threadtitle. Which Unreal just isn't, i wouldn't even say its the best options for indies YET (maybe it will it shows a lot of potential).
For artists Unreal is straight up the best choice if they want to do more than just present their stuff. Unity would take a lot more work to get something really advance artwise, which might change with version 5.
But thats not really the question, Unity as opposed to Unreal has a lot of 2d potential and has a great core and community behind as well, something unreal still has to catch up with. I agree the documentation is great, and that there will be something like the Assetstore, hell yeah all power to them. But do you think unreal is where it is because of "hipsters" (speaking of using memes hehe)?
Look man, i worked on many games, shipped many, Unreal 3, 4, Unity, Cryengine, inhouse tools you name it. Unity is one of the most pleasant work environments and so much more flexible if you want to do something that is not in it already. It has its flaws no questions about that.
But once you start modding Unreal to something Epic didn't intend it will become a headache, unless you have an army of coders to help you with this, but in production it showed, that staying to epics decisions (was the case in U3 productions) might be the wisest of all choices. With the open source this will change, and i have to admit i didn't work on any non shooterish games with Unreal 4 yet. But it is after all the engine Epic designs for their games and similar games are alway easier to do with it. While Unity never had a specific genre behind it.
Epic will catch up no doubt, the pricepoint is so bruteforce they will claim back what Unity took from them and its a great engine, but not my first choice for a small one man army "team" at this point.
That said, without more info on what the OP tries to do, it's hard to give a definite answer.
and maybe Stencyl. I also work with 2 friends on a small project in unity because its
great and provides a lot of stuff, but its pretty high end for my own needs, and
too complicated to make it work by myself I suppose.
Gamemaker seems pretty convenient and fun, there are many resources, but its a 2D tool.
Btw:
http://www.indiedb.com/engines
I think theres about everything
The best link I have ever encountered !
Thanks for sharing this
other game engines = DOS
some of us remember that period of time. When we realized we didn't have to type "cd/" just to look for our Doom installation folders in order to run the game. That is Unreal 4. =p
UE4 is not just another tool for game development.It is a reimagining of the tool.In every way from the documentation to giving source code access to everyone and Blueprint.
It's okay if some people are slow to catch on. Some people were slow to catch on to the printing press also =p.
The future of game development is where the gamers create their own games much like how in Star Trek people would program their own Holodeck simulation. Unreal 4 creeps us slowly more towards that goal with Blueprint.
It isn't a gimmick or a crutch. It's the future of the infinite game engine where the player can make up their own games with the power of their imagination. Not quite there yet. But getting closer.
Unreal 4 is the most clear minded implementation of a game engine in existence. And that's why it's the best.
It's okay if your minds explode I have dropped a lot of tons of knowledge in this one elegantly authored post.
And if you are trying to copy that arrogant snarky forum style some of us use... You need to know what you are talking about. The only way you can get away with talking like that is to be right, and not act that way about subjective topics where you can't have an absolute opinion.
Also you aren't quantifying your opinion with with hard experience.
This isn't a case of an ad hominem attack on you, because production is a very different environment to dicking around with tutorials.
We all know you haven't shipped any games... but I'm curious. Have you even finished any 3d assets from start to finish with animation?
When did I insult anyone? Was it after you posted that meme? Was that when I insulted you? After you posted that very professionally spirited meme that shows how professional you are?
Or you can't take a joke about hipsters. I actually think hipsters are pretty industrious thanks to their weirdness. They might not see the world in the most practical terms but they have their reasons.
Edit: Just so there aren't any uncertain terms TS, you insult me with a meme, then you call me a troll. You're the only one being offensive in this thread as far as I can see. It's fine to disagree, but you've been trying to make it personal for some odd reason. Good for you. Oh well, it might have been fun but you've sucked the fun right out of what was supposed to be a discussion about game engines, for me anyway =p
Or maybe it was people getting defensive when you make hipster jokes about them, just maybe.
I guess people would react more in your favor if you would not call em hipsters or slow because they made different experiences.
But that might be just me.
Back to my question, how many games did you ship? How many of them have been Unreal based? How much actual production experience do you have with Unreal, or any other engine for that matter? I didn't ask those questions to mock you.
Right now you just come over as a fanboy who really likes Unreal4 most, because you read its the cool new gamemaker toy.
I'm guessing you were a toddler then? Everyone who remembers those times knows you had to quit out to DOS to do any intensive work like 3D Studio or games. Information being scarce back then, I had no idea about 3D Studio for DOS; so I had to make do with POV-RAY
but back to the actual subject:
If you like Gamesalad then Gamemaker & Construct will feel familiar. The old version of Construct (aka Construct Classic) is no longer developed and is open source, I haven't messed with it much myself but it may be an option if you're feeling adventurous.
My personal recommendation would have to be Unity, if you're looking for a solid 2D engine to start with, and might shift over to 3D. It will require you to program, but the company's put out some really strong tutorials on the topic, and I think in the end, if you power through and learn to code, you'll have a lot easier a time going forward if you're wanting to do something complex.
Another nice thing about Unity, is that it's just bare enough that you can see how everything's moving underneath, so you get a deeper understanding of the way engines work.
That said, I do have my issues with it (poor performance due to a high level of abstraction, the graphical limitations of the free version) but they're not huge.
On the argument:
Pancake, you've not really afforded much in the way of any real explanation as to why you think UE4 is better, either.
I'll admit, it's a good engine, from the little I've played with it. But I much prefer Unity's workflow. Its use of interpreted and JIT code be a performance killer, but at least I don't have to recompile everything, and restart the editor regularly. You could say that blueprint alleviates it, but I'd rather peel my own eyelids off and watch spongebob for six hours straight than suffer through the inefficiency of visual scripting.
I also prefer CE3's renderer. Its material system may be less flexible than UE4's, but I've found it to run much more nicely (on med-high settings) on a wider variety of hardware, and it has better approximated global illumination in realtime than UE4, with no map rebuilding required.
Though I will never speak against UE's material editor. It is amazing.
TeriyakiStyle, I'd be a meteor. Unlike most people, I prefer to be a part of the solution, than the problem. I'm just better in that way if you know what I mean, persay.
Btw, I only use Id Tech in production. But only the versions released before it sold out to the lamestream. I only use the other engines ironically.
I will also recommend Playmaker for Unity. I'm making a platformer with it and it's working out so far. I know there's gotta be limitations but I haven't come across them so far being that my project is relatively simple. I'm probably too much of an artist to recognize the limits. It works for my purposes.