Environment, questions, advice, critique
polycounter lvl 10
Hi, this is my first post on Polycount. What i am doing now is 3D representation of a concept art i found on internet.
My questions are:
1.- Do have importance a topology flow in environment modelling for videogames?
2.- Do have importance how i am doing junctions?
3.- In project like that i should use tris or quads?
4.- Do you know any tricks and tips to get faster workflow? I was doing first boxes and then i was using retopology to make more detailed forms.
5.- Could you show similar examples/works/projects of what i am doing now, focusing on topology?
There are 2 versions of the same door: main doors and destroyed main doors. I do first the main doors with his topology and texture and then with that base i make a destroyed version. Thats why main doors is an element that is going to have finished mesh after making textures, not before.
This is how i organize my work:
Any advice would be welcome.
My questions are:
1.- Do have importance a topology flow in environment modelling for videogames?
2.- Do have importance how i am doing junctions?
3.- In project like that i should use tris or quads?
4.- Do you know any tricks and tips to get faster workflow? I was doing first boxes and then i was using retopology to make more detailed forms.
5.- Could you show similar examples/works/projects of what i am doing now, focusing on topology?
There are 2 versions of the same door: main doors and destroyed main doors. I do first the main doors with his topology and texture and then with that base i make a destroyed version. Thats why main doors is an element that is going to have finished mesh after making textures, not before.
This is how i organize my work:
Any advice would be welcome.
Replies
As far as workflow it looks good. Typically I would model base shapes, UV map, then do damage. Now if you're doing some MEGATEXTURES!!!! style work where every texture is unique or you're relying on vertex blended materials, then what you're doing probably is good. Most of the time with me I get in a loop of model>UV>texture and repeat until it's polished and matches the concept or quality that I'm going for.
Looking at this piece it seems like something I would see from an Environment Modeler. Good stuff!
Now I don't now your level in environment making, but this piece seems a bit too big to start with. You seem to modelize everything in a specific way, but maybe you should think about it : your blockout is already too detailed, you're going to re-use some assets instead of doing everything specific, and the textures too ( unless you're using a megatexture as Jeff said ). Try to break out your meshes depending on the textures.
Also you can put your blockout into an engine and start doing a base lighting to set the mood and see if the volumes are nice or not.
Last thing, you should have a shitload of other references, not only the base concept you're reproducing.
Again, just work from big to small. Don't get sucked into the details too early. Always keep the big picture in mind.
This looks like a good start.
What I do when I do environments like this I plan what should use a tiling texture, what should be decal (like damaged plaster) and what should be completely unique (something like your damaged beams).
Like I said, the first step for me is planning, the next is block out. A block out should be under 3-4 hours for something like this. Try not to spend to much time on your block out but make sure you get all your big reads in there. Like you got now. I'd say your mesh is to detailed for a block out, and I'm sure you didn't create it as one, but you should use it as one. Starting with your final mesh right away with out a block out can create some really (unnecessary) big challenges for you in the future.
Everything I said is from my own experience and is how I like to do things. Please tell us how you decide to proceed so that we won't whine about shit you've already decided to approach in a different way
Something I forgot, go nuts with the triangles! Tessellation or no tessellation..
I think you're in a very good place with the project now. I can tell that you have great skill just looking at your modeling so far. I'm curious to how this will evolve, definitely follow your thread.
Bigger back drop then you, and less advanced geometry wise. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94949&page=3
Here you have good reference and tech reference for your damaged roof, good example of vertex blend shader on the walls of the house. Great amount of details. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91066&page=8
Just a great level of detail and great execution. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125602&page=4
Good reference for some more simple destruction. Great use of blend shaders. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103356&page=6
Very detailed but great destruction. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117624
Just a sexy ass environment. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75196
I'd say Tomb Raider is pretty darn good reference for this as well.. There's at least one art dump on the forum here.. If you own it, look for the broken wood houses and the bigger monastery where you're supposed to bring down a bell to get out
I checked it in Unity engine and it looks good, there were things that i had to fix.
That's right, what i did was make more concept art by myself. I have made main door and roof.
I am not familiar with vocabulary, when you say blockout you refer to a grey block from left or a mesh from a right (that should have less details in the actual part of precess)?
Beautiful stuff, i have taken a deep breath when i have seen train station:poly101:. I have found some stuff form Tomb Raider http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119045&page=2 Focusing on wireframe images, those meshes are a lot more detailed than my ones, whats the difference between mine too detailed meshes and those from Tomb Raider?
sltrOlsson i have checked out your portfolio, there are stuff like Worn Interior, Boulangerie and Tavern that i can learn from, also the tutorials are something that i must realize. Thank you
No, i think that this project is too small to use modularity and i even cant thing about how to use it here.
Thanks a lot for replys and help
We all have our own way of approaching a building like this. I would maybe (after I've done a good block out) start to do the walls first, move on to the windows, doors, figure out how the damage should be built and so on..
To much detail in you mesh can obstruct you from doing things the easiest/best way.
I'm confident you'll figure all of this out as you go though.. Great to see that you filled in the gaps your self with your own concept stuff!
I'm glad if anyone is inspired, but that stuff is old :poly122: I think you can use that decal technique i'm talking about in the small tutorial though.. It's great for creating localized damage for the corners and stuff like that!
[Edit] Oh! Something I forgot to add! Don't do a atlas texture, all of the textures on one big texture. It's just an insane pain and studios that uses it usually have an automated process or it's done for very specific assets..
You can't, to my knowledge, use vertex paint in an efficient way with a atlas either..
I use Xmind. its freeware program that you can download from here http://www.xmind.net/download/win/
Wow, i already can think about possibilities of this, thanks. I will use it while doing other alphas.
Is it OK to create more polys on the mesh to do a vertex paint? The selected ones on the screen are ones that i created to do a vertex painting.
Also i use 3 different images of the same texture but tinted in 2D program to different colors. In this context is it better to do different image files as i do or tint one image in a 3D program? (Except the brown one which has white stains)
Totally, because you can't do it nicely without adding more verticles.
"In this context is it better to do different image files as i do or tint one image in a 3D program?"
Personally I would obviously use one texture and do a simple color multiply in the engine. But if the engine doesn't allow to do this kind of things, then I would use different textures, so it depends. But the less individual textures makes it more optimized.
Your lowpoly mesh looks nice by the way!
Is the vertex paint for blending of textures? Like this? http://docs.cryengine.com/display/SDKDOC2/Blend+Layer If it is you should do it with your textures al setup, in max or in the engine you're using. It's hard to apply it before you see how it will work in enigne..
Any textures to show of?
I have a lot of problems with exporting it to engine. I use Blender to model. I cant use Cryengine or Unreal because i have too weak graphic card. So i will use Unity. I have made a topic on Unity forum to find an anwer: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/export-blenders-mesh-materials-textures-vertex-paint-problem.261031/
I am not going do any highpoly, I am going to use normal maps on all bigger textures. I think that most detailed part of environment will be tha main door, I want to make it with nice big detailed texture.
Is there any trick to unwrap a rope?
When you work on environments for videogames do you unwrap all meshes?
When i will be able to make textures work on engine i will post it, rigth now i can show only this:
Thanks a lot for all help and advices, it really helps me to learn and progress.
This is how it look in game engine Unity.
There are still some details to make and fix. I haven't made decals yet. When finish I will focus on making good looking renders and presentation of this environment to put it on my portfolio. Is there any advice you could give me in this? I was looking at other environments and i think i can do it well. I thought about put on the environment a model of some ninja or samurai, i think it will be a icing on the cake.
yeah.. mind blown
Glad you're sticking with it, it's starting to shape up
My advice would be to rework your texture and to put it into something other than unity.
Don't get me wrong, unity is a very competent engine but you can have a full featured UDK for free or even better UE4 for $20.
The more powerful lighting alone would help push the piece and you'd have more control over your materials.
Keep it up.
Cheers
(Unity)
I have made texture for the roof, that is better quality than the earlier one.