Importance of BA vs. BA [ Hons.]
interpolator
Hello,
I'm almost done with my BA but I have to write my dissertation now. I don't know if this is normal at other unis but the system here is this. If I finish all my coursework and pass I get a BA , if I pass my BA paper I get a Honors degree.
The question is if it's in anyway relevant later on in the industry wether I have BA or BA[Hons] on my CV
I'm almost done with my BA but I have to write my dissertation now. I don't know if this is normal at other unis but the system here is this. If I finish all my coursework and pass I get a BA , if I pass my BA paper I get a Honors degree.
The question is if it's in anyway relevant later on in the industry wether I have BA or BA[Hons] on my CV
Replies
But a BA Hons is a plus after that.
Here is a list of things that are more important:
1. Demonstrating your art skills (portfolio)
2. Experience level
3. Knowing someone at the studio
4. Your personality/how you present yourself/how well you interview
5. Whether you are local or not
6. Whether you are willing to relocate or not
7. Knowing the tools the studio uses (engine, major art app maya/max)
.....
......
.......
99. Whether you have a BA or a BA with honors
For immigration a regular BA should do, and since you want to join the industry, it won't matter for a possible masters study either, as you'll make up the missing hons with work experience.
a thousand times yes!
this may be true for the gaming industry
but almoist every other industry is still looking for a degree
aim for the highest possible degree, it wont hurt you
you never know where you end up working or what opportunities open up
This made me giggle.
Guess I can save my time writing that and concentrate on my portfolio ^^
Anything art related really falls into the same field where the portfolio takes huge precedence over a degree. General graphic design is the same case.
If you think about it, that makes perfect sense. With art, your work should be evident by the quality of work you can do (your portfolio). Degree, honors, or not it doesn't matter. If your work looks good odds are you know what you are doing.
Also with art, you are expected to already be at the industry level when you get hired. Sure you might get briefed over company specific pipelines, etc. but in general you are hired because of your skill level right then.
It's less so in non-art entry level fields.
A degree shows that you are disciplined enough to learn and master new concepts. A degree also shows that you are trainable. You will probably be trained more after getting a non-art job than you would be getting an art job.
This thread isn't about a degree vs no degree. Its about a bachelor of arts degree vs a bachelor of arts degree with honors. While that may have some importance in other industries, it has absolutely none in the gaming industry.
Maybe it would be a very small consideration if you needed a visa to work in a different country, however I am not aware of any visas that required a BA with honors or anything equivalent.
Its a gold star on top of your degree, not anything tangible.
If the choice is putting in extra effort to get honors, via writing some useless academic paper, or putting the same amount of effort into art work to improve your portfolio the answer is crystal clear. Portfolio trumps everything.
Now, having a BA with honors certainly will not hurt, and if getting it is an insignificant amount of effort, why not go for it?
In reality, a BA with honors is probably more important if say, you want to get into a masters program with a low acceptance rate than anything to do with actually getting a job.
Hehe, glad to hear it, and yeah, that's what I would recommend. Your current folio shows potential, but you need to buckle down and get it up to industry level.
I eventually got a chance to work a solid amount of time on portfolio stuff and it allowed me to get a junior artist job later on.
Now I'm looking at cvs coming in for our team and first thing I go to is the portfolio. Not interested if you have honours or not. Can you produce the goods.
If you can arrange the time to boost on your folio, i'd do that. Good luck
Wise words. You've nearly finished the degree, and a dissertation doesn't have to be too time consuming. I'd have regretted not aiming for the best qualification that I could get.
It will if you can't get a job and have a ton of debt
It doesn't hurt to aim high and do your best, but portfolio will always mean more in this industry than somebody who can write a brilliant dissertation.
I knew amazing artists who work in the industry and got 2:2's just because they weren't strong academics.
But, your dissertation is an opportunity to really explore an area of art and design in a detail that you might not otherwise have the time/chance/motivation for. There are plenty of threads on Polycount that would make excellent dissertations if they so desired. There are also a couple of great examples of peoples' dissertations that have been featured on Polycount. Just a couple off the top of my head:
(From the modular environment wiki and a news post from a while back)
http://www.scottjonescg.co.uk/FYPResearch/Investigation_into_modular_design_within_computer_games_v1.0.pdf
Research paper on modular workflow. Definition, benefits, history of modularity, usage, methods, case studies, UDK and 3ds Max. See the Polycount forum thread
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78444
Creating seamless and unique environments
https://sites.google.com/site/seamlessandunique/
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96237
These are great examples of people really expanding their knowledge on a focused area by use of a dissertation. I think being able to thoroughly explain and demonstrate your knowledge in a dissertation is a valuable skill and not something that should be so slightly tossed aside because of your perceived time issues.
Also, if it's really the word count you're worried about, speak to your dissertation supervisor. I am sure that the word count is actually a suggested[/] word count that is there to help you get an idea of what's expected. But it's usually something that ends up being weighted with portfolio work if you want. One student might have a dissertation that's purely research, while another student might complete a large portfolio piece in tandem with their research - meaning that the word count is lowered. I've known people who have aced their dissertations with only a 3,000 word count, backed up by some seriously awesome work.
portfolio is important for the employer, the BA to the country you want to work in. He is from germany, if he wants to have a workvisa in the USA he will either NEED a BA, or 12 years of workexperience, with proof of those twelve years.
You will have to be very good, very well connected need many references to get past that with neither having studied or worked 12 years.
Also coming from germany his chances are pretty low to have high debt from his studies. So the higher the degree the easier it will be to get a normal workvisa.
Don't you guys have free university for life? Like, leave studies in your 20's and can come back and finish in your 30's (if you want) at no cost.
yep, sorry, didnt consider that, in some countrys, you have to sell your soul for a degree
i just wanted to point out that there are some jobs where a degree in fact matters more than your portfolio
and here in germany it would be a no brainer, if i had to choose
but if you need to make some serious debts, i'am not so sure if it pays in the long run
dude you just started your career, try to get a work visa somewhere not in the EU, good luck with your highschool dropout degree.
You have to be extremely good, well connected and have a lot of credibilitiy to get an O-1 visa to work in the states for instance.
I've been through that shit, by now i have my 12 years of work experience, but no degree will make it much much harder to get a job in the states.
i think most unis should have removed their study fees again, for a time studying cost money here, but not like encredible amount of money as some countries have.
Private unis are something different, but then again. private Game unis are at like 900 Euro a month, parts of that you can get covered by the government, so your debt will not be insanely high-
However, i never studied so i'm not really in that topic.
But i can talk about my experience of not having a degree and trying to work in other countries.
I'm curious though, does a BA with honors actually mean a higher level degree in certain countries? Because it doesn't in the US. Its still just a BA, the honors part simply means you had a high GPA. Edit, doing some research: It looks like it does in the UK, and perhaps used to in Canada but that is less common these days?
I suppose graduating with honors might be helpful in the same sense that being published is when seaking a work visa. It might be easier to pass you through the visa process with a fancier looking degree?
I also agree with Wesley's general sentiment, that if you can work a dissertation into actual content for your portfolio, its probably a good idea. However, if its a question of making art content for your portfolio vs writing theoretical academic papers, I would go art content every day of the week. After 4 years or whatever of schooling, you don't need more theory. You need more experience actually making stuff, you need meat and potatoes art content to fill out your portfolio.
I also agree that writing technical documents can be a good skill to have, with a couple stipulations though:
1. Entry level artists are not generally going to be in a position to write tech documents, nor will their ability to do so really come up in the hiring process.
2. Nothing stops you from doing technical writing/research after you get out of school. This is a skill that can be picked up later in your career if necessary.
I will restate my previous advice:
If getting a BA with honors is actually a better degree in your country and,
If you won't incur a significant amount of debt staying in school longer to get it and,
If you can work your dissertation into solid content for your portfolio
Go for it!
Otherwise, meh, its a nice bonus, but not at the cost of time that could otherwise be spent making art.
You're absolutely right. I did consider this a while back and decided not to pursue a degree. For me personally there's no reason to favour the US over most western European countries.
Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread.
That time I didn't waste on going to those classes/doing the required work was spent on my folio and it benefited me so much. That said it would have been nice if I could have made that D a B and got my honors graduation just to be able to say that I did ha.