If you guys are so against all that crap that is going on right now why the hell don't you get together and create your own ''properly managed'' game studios and leave those big corrupted companies instead of making games for them?
Stop blaming those big corrupted companies. Blame whoever still work for and under them. When game developers will finally have balls, maybe we'll finally have a decent video games industry.
Yup that is exactly how these things work. If you quit and start your own company everything will be golden almost immediately. Big companies will totally change there ways, right. They wouldn't ya know hire other more desperate people. Also when you start your own company you instantly become successful and you have no money problems and everything is sunshine and rainbows.
You realize this isn't a black and white issues. You are saying a large group of people should undergo extreme hardship in order to improve the industry. There aren't that many jobs in the games industry to begin with. Where would people go if they won't work at the big companies? What about these peoples families? Maybe they care more about providing for their family than they do about poor treatment. You can't just boil it down and blame the workers especially since they probably don't know what is going on until there is some sort of scandal.
Is there any movement toward unionization in the CG industry? As far as I can tell, there is none, though it seems that collective bargaining could be a solution to at least some of these problems.
Is there any movement toward unionization in the CG industry? As far as I can tell, there is none, though it seems that collective bargaining could be a solution to at least some of these problems.
In the VFX industry there is a union, the Animation Guild. Here's that blog post about wages in the VFX biz
"I always thought Pixar would pay the highest since they create some great stuff but apparently not. Their wages generally are a good 20-30% lower than most facilities. I assume this has to do with the prestige of working for the place. I guess managers expect that an artist be willing to pay to work for Pixar by accepting lower pay."
It's interesting that the VFX industry has a union and seems to me, as an outsider, to be so much shittier than the game industry. Perhaps it's because it's so tied to Hollywood that it just adopted the crappy business practices that already existed. The game industry is fairly decentralized, I've been contacted by Activision recruiters while I worked at EA so I doubt there's any sort of no poaching agreement.
Never forget its bigger than Disney/Pixar/Lucasarts. The knock on effects hit all of us in some way. Even at in smaller studios.
If you work (creatively) in film, you see the profit margins being squeezed tighter on a monthly basis. It seems to me that smaller creative companies flounder because of desperate bids whenever they do not have deep rooted control of a project. Increasingly, developing new ideas and practices is a do or die risk.
The only way for a company to really make bank is to either be in control of the project. Or to control of some technology, or tools noone else has. This is the way that salary strong arming affects not just the companies who's execs walk away with millions, but the smaller studios trying to do an honest job.
The oldest and most important conflict in human societies is the battle over the concentration of wealth and power. The folks like us at the top have always told those at the bottom that our respective positions are righteous and good for all. Historically, we called that divine right. Today we have trickle-down economics.
Thanks for the link, Justin. That was a good read. This little portion was interesting:
"I deliberately separated PDI and DreamWorks Glendale so it’s a little easier to compare wages. DreamWorks has two facilities, one in Glendale, and PDI in Redwood City. The Glendale facility is under a contract with The Animation Guild while PDI is not. The wages are generally higher in Glendale..."
So it would seem from that tiny data point that the Animation Guild has some positive effect on wages. The article is from 2010, though. I wonder if things have changed in any significant way since then.
My inexperience leaves me with a lot to learn on this topic. Could you point me to any direct comparisons between the current state of the VFX and game dev industries, if any even exist.
I've seen Life After Pi, and wonder to what extent the issues raised in that documentary effect the game industry as well.
I read about this in the wallstreet journal like 3 months ago why has this only just made it to the web? though they labeled the article "Tech Companies Discus Hiring practices" or something flat like that. in the article it turned out that microsoft apple adobe and many others had done the same thing and were discussing settlements.
I read about this in the wallstreet journal like 3 months ago why has this only just made it to the web? though they labeled the article "Tech Companies Discus Hiring practices" or something flat like that. in the article it turned out that microsoft apple adobe and many others had done the same thing and were discussing settlements.
The top people at Pixar may have been involved in illegal activities. It's also morally reprehensible, and screws with the lower and mid level employees the most. The very people who can't just uproot their life and switch jobs willy-nilly when something like this comes to light. This whole thing is such a bummer. I really liked Catmull.
That's easy to say but it would be hard to resist getting Pixar on your resume. That opens future doors.
I thought half the problem was that their little "gentlemen's agreement" was designed to keep those other doors shut. If another company like Sony started opening their door and offering more lucrative positions, they'd go after them.
You people need to stop glorifying places of work.
This!
Too many users here seems to be very young... and they don't realize they are not "rock stars" but pawns, 3d monkeys we can find in ALL the trees. Anyone with a computer and time can be a good 3d monkey.
If you are living on a cloud, man, come down to earth asap, and put your shoes on the ground. This is like all works, like if you were working with autocad or solidworks.
Replies
Yup that is exactly how these things work. If you quit and start your own company everything will be golden almost immediately. Big companies will totally change there ways, right. They wouldn't ya know hire other more desperate people. Also when you start your own company you instantly become successful and you have no money problems and everything is sunshine and rainbows.
You realize this isn't a black and white issues. You are saying a large group of people should undergo extreme hardship in order to improve the industry. There aren't that many jobs in the games industry to begin with. Where would people go if they won't work at the big companies? What about these peoples families? Maybe they care more about providing for their family than they do about poor treatment. You can't just boil it down and blame the workers especially since they probably don't know what is going on until there is some sort of scandal.
In the VFX industry there is a union, the Animation Guild.
Here's that blog post about wages in the VFX biz
"I always thought Pixar would pay the highest since they create some great stuff but apparently not. Their wages generally are a good 20-30% lower than most facilities. I assume this has to do with the prestige of working for the place. I guess managers expect that an artist be willing to pay to work for Pixar by accepting lower pay."
It's interesting that the VFX industry has a union and seems to me, as an outsider, to be so much shittier than the game industry. Perhaps it's because it's so tied to Hollywood that it just adopted the crappy business practices that already existed. The game industry is fairly decentralized, I've been contacted by Activision recruiters while I worked at EA so I doubt there's any sort of no poaching agreement.
If you work (creatively) in film, you see the profit margins being squeezed tighter on a monthly basis. It seems to me that smaller creative companies flounder because of desperate bids whenever they do not have deep rooted control of a project. Increasingly, developing new ideas and practices is a do or die risk.
The only way for a company to really make bank is to either be in control of the project. Or to control of some technology, or tools noone else has. This is the way that salary strong arming affects not just the companies who's execs walk away with millions, but the smaller studios trying to do an honest job.
And beyond the creative industry, this problem feeds into a larger one that America is facing: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014.html#.U8QitPldWSo
"I deliberately separated PDI and DreamWorks Glendale so it’s a little easier to compare wages. DreamWorks has two facilities, one in Glendale, and PDI in Redwood City. The Glendale facility is under a contract with The Animation Guild while PDI is not. The wages are generally higher in Glendale..."
So it would seem from that tiny data point that the Animation Guild has some positive effect on wages. The article is from 2010, though. I wonder if things have changed in any significant way since then.
My inexperience leaves me with a lot to learn on this topic. Could you point me to any direct comparisons between the current state of the VFX and game dev industries, if any even exist.
I've seen Life After Pi, and wonder to what extent the issues raised in that documentary effect the game industry as well.
I would.
A bad offer is a bad offer, regardless of which studio that is offering it.
If you get an offer from Pixar, are you really going to be feeling too badly about how marketable you are?
This is why. If a place like Pixar is interested in you, most other places are also likely to be interested in you.
You people need to stop glorifying places of work.
Because it's just now starting to get looked at. This actually started in 2010 (or perhaps earlier): http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/whats-happening-with-lucasfilmpixar-collusion-case/
Especially for newer artists. Pixar has to save all their money for voice actors :P
This!
Too many users here seems to be very young... and they don't realize they are not "rock stars" but pawns, 3d monkeys we can find in ALL the trees. Anyone with a computer and time can be a good 3d monkey.
If you are living on a cloud, man, come down to earth asap, and put your shoes on the ground. This is like all works, like if you were working with autocad or solidworks.