Please Help Me Not Suck Anymore

programmer23

So I have been doing 3d art for a while and have decided to do some more 2d drawing. I have only taken 1 formal drawing class in my life, but do sketch a lot, can you guys give me tips on how to improve or instruction on what I should do.

Here are some of my recent sketches.

Latest Drawing

Stinkhorse

So what you're starting with isn't terrible! What are you looking to improve on? Anatomy, rendering, lighting?

programmer23

I am really looking to improve on anatomy, proportions and my lines. I have been watching some of this guys stuff and he does a fantastic job of explaining techiques and forms.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5dyu9y0EV0cSvGtbBtHw_w

here are some anotomy sketches I did today after watching his videos

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Stinkhorse

I would say your most important lesson right now would be learning how to visually breakdown objects from the 3D world and translate that into a collection of arranged 2D shapes. I had a professor refer to it as "Learning how to see", specifically learning how to see an object for its shapes as they'll appear on the page. Continually drawing and redrawing the human form will help with that, but also tackling basic objects like chairs and flowers and bananas and a coat laying on a table are all good opportunities. Part of the trick is forcing yourself to slow down and draw what is actually there, and not letting your brain and hand sketch out the interpretation of what you're seeing, because that'll lead to something that feels half finished and inaccurate.

MagicSugar

Draw EVERY DAY. 5 minutes minimum if you don't have time or energy.

If you do this, maybe in 5-7 years you can draw everything that you can imagine or see in your mind.

programmer23

I have been sketching tons and finally decided to do another painting, let me know what you guys think. Be brutally honest, I can take it.



A possibility for making it better.

Stinkhorse

Your anatomy is a more solid in this one, but the position of the feet would be unlikely to be where they are in the current pose. One foot would be in a forward position and the other would be back a couple feet for balance. The arms would be raised in a counter balance position, with one higher than the other to keep him from falling over. Here's paint over with some embellishment I'll talk about below the image:




I'm seeing a running theme in your work of the muscled hero in bondage (chained up, not the sex kind). If this is a series you're looking to explore think about both what in the theme attracts you to it and then push those elements as hard as you can. Going over the top in terms of poses and scenarios is a great way to learn form and shape in an extreme position. More subtle elements and body shapes can come later as you become more comfortable with how the body bends and contorts.

Also get comfortable throwing dongs onto your dudes. It's anatomy, just like the rest of it. Back in college an artist I really looked up to pointed out that I was avoiding the same thing and that it made my guys look like Ken dolls. You're good enough to avoid Ken dolls

programmer23

Thanks for the paintover, It really helped me figure out the perspective on the feet better. Its funny you mention that both the images kind of had the same bondage theme, I do that so I have an excuse to have really defined muscles straining, just so it is easier for me to practice anatomy. I could turn it into a series, but I will have too come up with new poses.

Here is what I came up with for the new foot placement. Thank god for the liquify tool.

Stinkhorse

That's better, but your legs are still pretty chunky for the perspective, and the guy's arms are still longer than a human's by about a hand's length. look at the placement of his limbs and how thick they are, then imagine him standing upright in place. How would that look, where would the problems be, and how could you fix them?

Also don't be afraid to get some anatomy images (read: softcore porn) and just trace out the body shapes to give yourself some muscle memory and a feeling of how the lines relate to one another in space. You might also want to check out Magic Sugar's Pillowy Soft Doughnuts thread for an idea of how fast you can get some great anatomy knowledge just drawing body parts over and over again.

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134907

Suba

Try do do that every day for like 15 minutes http://www.posemaniacs.com/thirtysecond
It will help you a ton on the long run, helps the eye, the hand and the overall feeling of drawing.

programmer23

Suba, thank you so much for introducing me to that site, I have been doing poses for ~ 1 hr and I can already tell I am getting faster and more accurate with them. I also downloaded the iphone app as the site seemed to have some bad buffering issues.

Stinkhorse

oooh my that is a nice tool.
I'm gonna get some time in front of that when I have a second. Programmer! Get some of your gestures up when you can!

BagelHero

If we're going to be suggesting gesture drawing tools;
http://artists.pixelovely.com/

I really like these. Not only humans, but animals, hands and feet, and faces. Just stock pictures, but practicing off a real body in movement allows for better starter studies, I think; once you know a little more about the construction 3D models are probably fine because you can compensate where you know something's deforming incorrectly, but they have flaws, and you probably don't want to start a bad habit of including them in your paintings.

programmer23

another fantastic resource, thank you. I almost am inclined to say I like Bagelhero's site better as it features live models whose pose is easier to get quickly due to lighting. Thank you!

kaktuzlime

Ain't going to sugarcoat it, you've got a lot of practicing to do. Be patient, this will take time.

If you're serious, I recommend looking at these videos by Proko > https://www.youtube.com/user/ProkoTV/videos

Buy and read "Drawing Manual" bu Glenn Vilppu.

If you can, start taking lifedrawing classes. I would further advise you not to spend too much energy and effort on colors and light yet, learn some fundamentals first.

Here's a good all-round resource > http://androidarts.com/art_tut.htm

Now practice every day.

Stinkhorse

Good call on the Android Art's link. Arni really has a good breakdown on light, color and form.

programmer23

I have been working with these tools and did about 7 full pages with pen and paper, I then decided to break out my drawing tablet, a tiny bamboo pen, and did these.

Stinkhorse

Yeah this is exactly the sort of practice you're after at this point.

Some tips:
-When starting a gesture drawing make an action line. This is a single line that follows the flow of the subjects body and will give you a strong, immediate feel for the pose you're about to draw as well as a guide to follow. Take a look at these examples:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fSF-2YKeUrk/UDpYLWbxTRI/AAAAAAAABB4/jlkX3UM7uGs/s1600/gesture120818s.jpg
Notice that line that almost all of the subjects have that whip cracks through the pose. That's the action line.

-Your line work is a bit sketchy, which I know sounds counterintuitive but multiple small lines are a sign of underconfidence in what you're about to draw. Confidence in your line looks like a single flowing arc when used to do gestures, and this will come with time and applied effort. Until then you can help that process along by locking your wrist when drawing. Don't move it at all, and let all the momentum for the drawing come by rotating your arm from the elbow. It'll feel awkward at first, but the result will be a smoother, more lively and confident line, and it's better on your wrist long term.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_nVUv0d7doE/Tw2abHfKcVI/AAAAAAAAA3I/M4FbvlJDQJI/s1600/04-01-12%2Bgesture1.jpg

-Lastly: Reduce, reduce, reduce! Keep everything super simple for now. The ribcage is an oval with a half circle cut out, the arms, legs and joints are lines and balls. The pelvis and hips are a oval positioned counter to the ribcage, and the feet are triangles. The head is just another circle on a stick neck. If you add a jaw keep it quick with a 'j' shaped line and that rises to meet the 'forehead' of the skull circle. Your goal with these are to quickly hit the high notes of the pose while getting some muscle memory in your hand for the length and proportion of the limbs. Once you're more comfortable with the proportions start working on adding some volume to your shapes, but until then, nail that skeleton!

All in all you're pointed the right direction, so keep running!

programmer23

Yeah, I try to draw with only my arm, but my old bamboo pen tablet only had a 5" x 3.5" active area, hardly large enough to use my whole arm.

Would you guy suggest I get larger graphics tablet? My main work is 3d sculpting which might also benefit from a larger drawing surface.

If you guys do suggest a new tablet, are there any less expensive ones that you guys suggest?

Stinkhorse

More room to maneuver never hurt anyone, but cost is always a factor. If you're interested in learning about some of the alternatives to Wacom I would recommend checking out Frenden.com and reading up on his tablet reviews. I ended up picking up a HUION H610 PRO based on his review and the fact that it was only $90. It's doing pretty solid.

Keep in mind though the amount of pressure needed to put down a line on significant thickness is a bit more significant than Frenden's review lets on. This says to me that he naturally draws firmer than some, and a wacom tablet must feel like a delicate firehose by comparison.

Stinkhorse

Oh I should probably note that I'm working off of a Surface Pro 2 at the moment, and have let my primary machine simply die a quiet death.

programmer23

Been practicing a bunch, figure I should post some progress, so for now, another pose sheet... hopefully some full paintings soon.

Looking into a huion tablet, but also looking at the yiynova screen tablets as not beeing able to look at what im doing seems like a massive barrier. Anyone have any experience with "cheap" cintiq alternatives, or the less expensive older cintiq's?

BagelHero

The older yinova is just a tad dodgy, but I hear theres a newer model (the new one is 16:9, older one is not...) that fixes most problems decently. I didn't have too many issues with it.

That said, I've never much had an issue with non-screen tablets. I just use them for everything , so every point on the screen becomes ingrained in my muscle memory and I 'just know' where the line goes.
That said, if you've tried a screen tablet and know you can justify the cost, hats to you and the yinova does it's job.

programmer23

I just got the Huion H610 pro, love the tablet and the texture on it, the surface area I get with it is just fantastic compared to my old bamboo. I did my first landscape study to test out the tablet.