33 yo. Too late? Best learning path?
Hi guys, first post here. Great, inspiring, community. Sorry for my bad eng, i'm a bit rusted.
now right to the point. I'm a 33 yo guy living in Italy. i've an high school degree and nothing more. I've done a lot of jobs to survive in the last 10 years, a lot different one from each other.
I'm in love with games from 31 years. I worked for gamestop and then opened a VG shop on my own (failed due to the terrible crisis here).
i quitted my job may 31. now it's time to watch in the mirror and decide what to do with my life. I'm surviving with some saltuary freelance jobs as a video editor/cameraman (i've done it for a couple of years in the past), and studying After effects/nuke.
BUT
Yesterday i found this forum. haven't slept this night lurking your work, paints, models. A flame is born. I remebered also all the nights spent when i was 15 on 3d studio max, modeling ships, weapons, and all that stuff.
Now the world has changed. I'm 33, no job, no bachelor degree, no art techniques, i can't draw, i can't model. But i'd love to. I live in the wrong place, i know. a little town on the adriatic sea. So i come to ask you not the usually max vs. maya quest, but... Am i too old? And if i'm not, what would be the best learning path? 3 years in an Art university? berserking on programs? Go abroad (i'd like to)?
i'm a little bit scared. I AM REEEEALLY scared.
a little on myself to help answers:
Live on my own house, no job, around 5k euros on bank account, basic skills in Photoshop. Advanced skills in Premiere, basic skills in Ae. Basic skills in Unity 3d. Legendary knowledge of videogames.
Thanks for the patience and thanks for the inspiration you all gave me. I feel alive.
Simone
now right to the point. I'm a 33 yo guy living in Italy. i've an high school degree and nothing more. I've done a lot of jobs to survive in the last 10 years, a lot different one from each other.
I'm in love with games from 31 years. I worked for gamestop and then opened a VG shop on my own (failed due to the terrible crisis here).
i quitted my job may 31. now it's time to watch in the mirror and decide what to do with my life. I'm surviving with some saltuary freelance jobs as a video editor/cameraman (i've done it for a couple of years in the past), and studying After effects/nuke.
BUT
Yesterday i found this forum. haven't slept this night lurking your work, paints, models. A flame is born. I remebered also all the nights spent when i was 15 on 3d studio max, modeling ships, weapons, and all that stuff.
Now the world has changed. I'm 33, no job, no bachelor degree, no art techniques, i can't draw, i can't model. But i'd love to. I live in the wrong place, i know. a little town on the adriatic sea. So i come to ask you not the usually max vs. maya quest, but... Am i too old? And if i'm not, what would be the best learning path? 3 years in an Art university? berserking on programs? Go abroad (i'd like to)?
i'm a little bit scared. I AM REEEEALLY scared.
a little on myself to help answers:
Live on my own house, no job, around 5k euros on bank account, basic skills in Photoshop. Advanced skills in Premiere, basic skills in Ae. Basic skills in Unity 3d. Legendary knowledge of videogames.
Thanks for the patience and thanks for the inspiration you all gave me. I feel alive.
Simone
Replies
Do you need a job to keep a roof over your head?
After that, play to your strengths. You have knowledge in Premiere, after effects and photoshop, build on those i think.
The question will be, where do those skills translate into a job?
Textures
spite animation
web site stuff
I'm sure others here can come up with additional suggestions.
Few things:
1. You don't NEED school to learn how to model/texture/etc for game art. Plenty of people have broken into this industry w/o a degree. However, I'm not sure what rules the EU has when it comes to working in other countries (like say you wanted to work at Crytek in Germany or something). Maybe a degree would then be required?
2. If it's your passion you're never too old.
3. Might want to rent out your place anyway? Why not get some extra income if you have the space.
4. Having all these other job experiences will help you be a better artist in time.
Make a plan and execute it.
The upside is that there are a ton of great people in the industry, the work is a lot of fun, and the environments are generally good. Mostly though the people are awesome and the work is great.
So now that that's out of the way if you are really truely serious there are tons of great resources online. Definitely check out the wiki here on polycount.
If you don't mind paying for your learning here are some great resources:
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/
http://eat3d.com/
http://www.zbrushworkshops.com/
If you are looking for free stuff the are tons of places online just search around here are a couple of decent ones.
http://cgi.tutsplus.com/
http://www.3dtotal.com/index_tutorial.php
Once I graduate and have a tasty day job I can still art for hobby or freelance in my off hours.
:thumbup:
What I can tell you is, keep your feet on the ground. It's very easy to be seduced by something like this, but behind every good model there's years of hard practice. You could experiment a few things on your free time and see what suits you the most. Then make a solid and hyper focused plan and go for it!
Seeing what you listed as previous experience I suggest giving VFX a shot. Maybe you'll like it!
This should give you some insight on the vfx artist's life: https://www.imbuefx.com/
on average it takes two to four years to get good at 3D art (not sure about 2D, i think it's around four to six years), so it's almost never too late.
best of luck man!
I mean, do you really want to spend next 3 years learning 3d? At 36 you will probably get junior level low paying job. And the following 3-5 years you will be easily replaceable cog in the machine that can be laid off any day. You will also be working long hours - unpaid overtime.
And you need to understand one more important thing: you may like those beautiful pieces of art, but do you think you have not only what it takes to be an artist, but do you even enjoy the process of creating it? Personally, I am a junior 3d artist, but I realized I absolutely hate doing 3d art and can't stand it. At first I thought it was because I was bad artist. I got better, nope, still hate it. Now I am working towards a producer role and I absolutely love every second of it.
You have some knowledge of video editing and camera work. I think you should look at that direction and expand your skills in that way. There are many art professions you can directly apply those skills to.
But obviously you can't figure this shit out in a year or two. First you need to get a job so you can survive. Try to get one with flexible hours that let's you study 3d as much as possible. Then figure this shit out. The internet has all the info you'll need.
I don't think it's too late at all. I would just echo what others have said and be sure that this is really something you want to do. You may be able to do freelance work with your other skills while you learn, which would ensure you have enough money to eat. You're in a good position with not having any rent to pay or other people depending on your income, so I say you go for it.
VFX may be a perfect transitioning step for you to consider.
You have knowledge of Nuke/Aftereffects and camera work already going for you. Use this.
You could attain a position as a Matchmover artist, layout artist, animatic artist, then move into compositing... all the while surrounding yourself with guys that kickbutt and that you can learn from. (Far more advantageous than attending school and competing against all the recent graduates)
This would allow you to work on your modeling/painting/ or whatever else you'd enjoy doing in the gaming industry in your spare time.
Then, making the jump over to the gaming industry after a few years in the VFX industry would prove a much easier route.
Just my 2cents.
No I'm saying the amount of effort and time he will have to commit will be substantial , and its extremely hard to get in at entry level now. I was attempting to relay how competative it is, there are plenty of mid level artist taking junior jobs now. It does not mean he cannot try, but my 2 cents is he should avoid it at this stage in his life unless he is willing to dedicate himself for the next few years
You can in fact use modelling/painting skills at your VFX compositing job to do (animated) matte paintings, for example.
Exactly! This would be perfect opportunity to branch out from a position that he'll likely already qualify for.
5 years prior to that I had an interview at LCP( london College of printing) for their games design course and they said I was too old so I should n't expect a career in games at my age
I had an interesting experience in leamington spa. I was waiting for an interview and was sitting in the reception area.
I hears a load of the artists there moaning about interviewing 'old guys' for roles.
I though that was a bit rude and the interviewer just had a really bad attitude - as if i was taking up their valuable time.
(Bloody skater kids:)
On the flip side when I worked at Blitz games I heard one of the guys mention that there was a texture artist who was in his 50's still going strong.
I suppose it's all about attitude really, but it's hard work to get to the required standard and takes a lot sacrifice re your personal life
and leisure time, so make sure its what you want
prior to games i was a clerical officer, a military policeman and a metropolitan police cadet.
I also worked in a factory briefly and was rubbish at all the above
I'm 35, and have been working in the industry since I was 21.
This is not a very great industry to be in for someone wanting a modicum of stability. YES there are small pockets of stability to be found in this industry, but they are the rare exception and not the norm.
Read this:
http://kotaku.com/why-game-developers-keep-getting-laid-off-1583192249?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow
Most guys in their mid 30's are sick of moving across the country or overseas for a job opportunities. Most guys in their mid-30's are sick of being laid off from jobs a year after they moved their families there.
Most people in their mid 30's can't afford the aggressive skill development/knowledge accumulation outside of work that is necessary to maintain stable employment.
It can be an amazing industry to be a part of, but it's not really the industry most people on the outside seem to think it is.
Art for video games is NOT a creative endeavor. Our job is to SHIP on time, and on budget.
This. Don't romanticize too much about it, since we're pretty much craftsmen.
Nobody cares how old is your face behind awesome looking portfolio.
It's a tough road to walk, that's all.
I think that all the points of view are correct. If someone want to REALLY do something, then he'll be able to do it. An example: a collegue of mine (cameraman / editor / friend) is still working as a freelance for minor clients. 8 years ago he decided to become a surgeon (!!!) and started the studies. He needs now only 5 exams to graduate. he's over 40.
BUT
Art is a strange thing. you know, if the post was like "i want to become a lawyer, am i too late?" i think that all the answers would have been "sure! go for it!". but "become" an artist... it's a "strange" thing. I think Art comes in a lot of ways. I didn't mentioned that i play guitar from 20 years and I tour the country from 10, released over 10 LPs. I love music and all that stuff. I also love movies, i studied in Bologna Music and Film University. I love architecture too (1 year in Florence university of architecture), I love games, cyberpunk, technology.
Now the question may turn into this: "what is the best way to express myself?"
I really appreciated all your comments. My reply is simple. I'll keep doing my job in animation, compositing and editing videos, spending my free time (RE)learing 3ds max. I DO NOT WANT to work as a game artist, not NOW, it's unreal. I think also that no one must start something with the WORK or SALARY words in mind. When we were child we didn't mind to do something that we loved for a FUTURE JOB or for the money. So, with that in mind i think that a school is not a good idea right now, but getting into the "game art" thing is a good idea.
Hope to post my first wooden crate soon! ;-)
thanks a lot and hope to hear replies. this community really rules, ;-)
thats where many people are wrong
art is like everything else, the more you practice, the better you get
many people say "i wish i was this talented"
what they forget is that the "talented" practiced the shit out of it for 10 years
Build on the foundation you already have: camera skills, editing skills, some basic Unity 3d skills, and a lot of knowledge of videogames.
Check out this guy's youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/egoraptor
He is estimated to earn $153,600 $460,800.
If you started out making dumb little Youtube vids about videogames, you'd be able to work at home, use the skills you already have, not spend a fortune on school and make a little extra money. The money won't be much at first, but you'd be surprised how much it adds up to over time.
I've switched careers twice. I went from electronics, to technical artist, and then became an electrician. The key was that I used my programming skills from electronics when I was a technical artist. After ten years as a full-time technical artist, I chose to become an electrician (I wanted a lifestyle change). It was easy for me because I already had all of the education from my electronics diploma. I also sell stuff online in my spare time so I still use my videogame skills.
** For the next bit, my definition of AAA is http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-07-04-eas-hilleman-triple-a-console-studios-reduced-to-25-worldwide **
Realistically, if you tried to become something like a AAA character artist, it would be like trying to get on an NBA team when you are 40. There are 450 players in the NBA. There are about 500 working AAA character artists in the entire world.
You are 33 now, need 5 years to learn the basic skills, plus another 2 years or so to find a job. And the job you will start at will probably pay a low salary. You'll get a raise if you stick with it for a few years. You'll be about 42 before you are making a decent salary.
Build on the foundation you have now!
I'm 29 and hoping to get a job in 3d after having worked a the last 10 years in various unfulfilling jobs. At the moment I work 25h week to live and try to do 25h a week on 3d, I've played with it on and off in the intervening 10 years and think I have a reasonable grasp on where I need to be before I can get in but staying dedicated is my main issue, unfortunately affording or qualifying for study isn't an option at this point.
Rather than getting a job in a studio, how realistic is starting off supplementing income with selling things on the unity asset store or making steam workshop assets?