Physically based Bus (Unreal Engine 4)
interpolator
Heeyyyyy. If you guys remember me, I'm the guy who was planning that big cartoony island project from March. I've decided to put that on hold right now. Not because of trouble, but because I want it to be my best portfolio piece. I've decided I should continue to improve my 3D modeling and 2D drawing skills so that way, I can truly impress everyone at Polycount with what I believe, is a very creative idea of mine.
So now I'm trying to get back into modeling with my first project. Modeling a section of my city, starting with these buses.
Before I started modeling, I wanted to map what areas will appear physically based.
Here's the progress so far. Modeling in 3DS Max.
It should be noted I've made changes to the bus. Because of the blueprints I'm working with, the actual bus is a mash up of the two reference images. I actually like this decision as it makes it look more original.
I'm definitely going to complete modeling today and hope to get the textures done in the same day.
When I'm done with the bus, I'm going to rebuild this part of my city and populate it in Unreal Engine 4 (downtown brampton, brampton terminal)!
So now I'm trying to get back into modeling with my first project. Modeling a section of my city, starting with these buses.
Before I started modeling, I wanted to map what areas will appear physically based.
Here's the progress so far. Modeling in 3DS Max.
It should be noted I've made changes to the bus. Because of the blueprints I'm working with, the actual bus is a mash up of the two reference images. I actually like this decision as it makes it look more original.
I'm definitely going to complete modeling today and hope to get the textures done in the same day.
When I'm done with the bus, I'm going to rebuild this part of my city and populate it in Unreal Engine 4 (downtown brampton, brampton terminal)!
Replies
Grab the refBoard by Equanim here if you haven't already. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134131
I usually split my 3ds Max viewport in 2 vertical windows. I have my reference on refBoard covering the 1st viewport and I model in the 2nd viewport right beside my reference. That way I am able to quickly glance over at my reference.
When you get started on actual scenes. I find it much easier to take the scene on from the big picture instead of one asset at a time. This has helped me tremendously as I used to get bogged down for days trying to get the little details just right on a single asset when in reality it was probably just a waste of time.
Block out the entire scene, props, and everything without going into details or texturing. Your job here is to get the scale and proportions correct. Then you can take it further and add details to everything in the scene one step at a time keeping the big picture in mind.
Hope this helps! Hang in there! And good luck with the job search!
I do feel proud of making this.
I'm not even sure if I'm going to make it hi-poly (in the millions) right now. I'm just trying to get something done and hopefully it opens me up to do more serious work.
It was two months ago, there was a thread discussing portfolios and one of the hiring guys mentioned he favored originality over substance.
It's still a bus. I'm not going to go crazy with it and give it something like hands for wheels. There's also nothing stopping me from making more buses that are exact copies of the real thing.
Just go with the original design and pull through the whole thing and spend time on it. You will be glad you did that after a while seeing how you ended up with 1 really good asset rather than 6 or 7 projects half-finished that didn't really look that nice.
better set yourself something like: i will work on it for 5 hours, no facebook, no porn, no skype.
Impossible to do for 5 hours!
There is nothing worse than setting short deadlines and then finding yourself days, weeks, months behind where you planned and still not any where near finished.
And what is Physically based ? do you clearly understanding it, or they said that it'll give you a beautiful, physically accurate look if you just throw stuff in to UE4?
Don't think about rebuild a part of your city, not even a Bus, Let's say : I'm gonna make a wheel !. If it's look like shit, just do another, and another . . .
I already have the blueprints for the Bus and I can just step outside and already see what needs to be modeled. It's less of a challenge to me.
I've been studying physically based since the first Epic Samaritan demo. The physically based rendering system has to do with how light interacts with real world materials using actual scientific barometers.
For example, using my own Bus example. The way light bounces off glass is completely different to how it hits the tires. Whereas the windows represent a "mirror like" representation of our world (because glass is very smooth, and polished, light bounces back in one direction), the tires have a much more diffuse looking sense of specularity (tires have a rough uneven surface,full of micro bumps and crannies, light is bound to get lost and scattered around the surface).
Not to be a dick, but you already over reached and gave up on your last project. If you keep doing it you're going to realize months have gone by and you have nothing to show for it.
The best way to show you can do something is to just do it. You really don't have to worry about how light reflects off rubber if all you have is a cylinder and some cubes.
I think that's the problem. You aren't challenging yourself. Challenging yourself and using your own* creativity will only make you better (if you don't give up) and that's what gets people jobs..the ones that succeed are the ones that set themselves apart from everybody else and steps out for their comfort zone to better themselves rather than just make something to fill their portfolio.
I think that's a good idea. Try to do a wheel to the best of your abilities.
Proper highpoly first.
If I want, I could cancel this project and make the island a priority again. But I don't want to right now.
I guess you could say I'm a person that's hard to understand. The way I challenge myself is done in a different way.
I like this idea. I'll make the wheel my first hipoly project.
Also make sure it's something that is do able and that is very compelling to you. You have the best chance of actually come out with a good project that way. You don't want to get 3/4 of the way into a project lose focus and then never finish. Trust me those project you say you will get back to you most likely won't. I start a lot of projects. Few ever get touched again. Most likely because the interest wasn't really that strong to begin with.
You may believe you have unique snowflake status but odds are good that you don't.
I agree, I'm not going to make it a daily thing anymore and just base it on "how many hours I put into it" instead.
I don't want to give up on the projects though. But that's because some of these aren't just 1 second ideas. They're based on something bigger I want to do (create a game).
I still work with them every day. When I'm bored and I need to sketch something, the first thing that comes to mind is "hey, my island project!". Or when I open 3DS Max/UE4, the first exercises I do are props related to that project.
It's not even a lack of interest. Not even close. If I could retire forever, the first thing I would do is "those projects I have? I want to finish them". Not a day goes by where I don't think about it. Even now, I regret not having completed it, especially reading the outcome from this thread.
R.I.P all the projects I put on hold, you will be forgotten quickly
From what you have shown so far, your project could be anywhere between 3DS specs and PS4, which require vastly different approaches. You have to pick something, and then stick to it.
I loved to start projects back in the day. I think I have around 35 open projects that will NEVER be done.
For me it was part of the process of becoming the artist I'm today. Looking back, and the advice I gave a friends just weeks ago that wants to get in to a 3D art school, take baby steps and let you self be proud when your done. He made two props and they will beat your stuff everyday. Why? Because they are DONE.
One wheel sounds good. Or if you actually want to focus on PBR, do 10 material spheres. No more.. If you're doing a environment, do a diorama with two components, minimalistic shit.
When you find your idea and plan your project, ask your self what the smallest amount of work you need to do to make it fly. If you realize you need a full setup of vegetation, do a desert scene. The satisfaction and boost of finishing things are insane.
I'm only motivating myself, that's it. If I never told you it was a "project" there would be no difference between what you're saying right now and what I was doing.
I also don't agree I'm wasting my time. I want to be a 3D environment artist, not anything else. If there's something that can help me get ahead or better understand what I'm doing, I want to read into it.
That said, this thread has taught me a lot and I'm going to reevaluate the bus. Modeling the high poly wheel is where I want to make that start.
Has it really though? You have Perna here, one of polycounts best telling it to you straight, and I really really hope you are listening. He can seem rough on the edges sometimes (I've read just about everything i can find that he has taken the time to write), but he truly only wants, not for you to improve lick lickity-split, but for you to understand how to improve your personal abilities. He and racer are some of my biggest teachers (don't take my money guys
This is about the smartest thing you've said in this thread.
And I want to attempt to explain two other things:
PBR,
Forget about it dude. The reason Perna is saying the same is because PBR is a technique used waaaayy further down the pipeline of an asset. Like, your highpoly model doesn't give two fucks about PBR. This a material thing, which you need textures for, which you need uv's for, which you need a good low poly model for. You NEED these skills if this is what you want to do, and we would much rather see you post sweet models and show us your improving. I don't care how you learn or improve or challenge yourself, I don't want to see PBR materials on a shitty model.
Stop learning about PBR and learn more about how to create proper 3d models.
For example: You said you were proud of this?
Be more proud when you've accomplished something like this:
Second, your "big idea".
We all have big ideas Jordan, and we all love our own, and baby our own, and want to create our own and see people play and love it. But some people wait there entire career to have the pull AND THE SKILLS AND MAYBE A TEAM to make their own game. I'm not saying don't shoot for the stars, i'm just saying make sure your rocket ship isn't going to blow to smithereens before it even leaves the ground.
I hope to see a sweet hi-poly wheel soon, BUT TAKE YOUR TIME! Throw away the first three you make and show us the fourth. Iteration will help you learn.
Hope this has helped.
I wanted this discussion to drag on not because of any hate or conflict but because of knowledge. I am serious about 3D art but who else can I go to? Polycount is a forum of veteran artists, why wouldn't I take this opportunity to extract all the knowledge I can from them?
Again, I want to learn. I'm always in a constant state of self correction. Any perceived disagreement are my attempts at rooting out any flaws that I may have.
Imagine without this thread, I might have not seen that Bus picture you posted which tells me "ok, this is what the game industry wants and that's what I should strive for".
OR BETTER YET! YOU should be looking for that stuff on your own dude.
I googled, "high-poly bus", and it was the first result. Plus unless you live under a rock, you have to be able to see what games look like today. Open up and play a new game, there is your industry standard. Look at new games that haven't come out. That will be your industry standard, as the standard will never stop getting higher.
Let me tell you a story about my school:
There were 100 students. 90 of them came to class, and left after class. 10 of us came four hours before class, and left the next day after sleeping under desks and drinking ludicrous amounts of coffee at dennys during the three hours school was closed.
Out of those ten students who went above and beyond with "hours of work". Only two of us got jobs, and i'll tell you why. Cause we searched out the knowledge for ourselves.
It exists, and it's not hard to find, and i shouldn't sit here and post examples for you because it's something you can totally do on your own. This is what i meant, by being guided to better skills, not being told how to improve them.
Jordan it's great that you're open minded, and in a constant state of self correction? but if i were you, I would quietly shut off polycount. Stop following up on these posts, and instead take our advice, go dig yourself into a 3d program and bust out some art work to make us say something other than, "dude just stop". Try making us say wow, or nice start, or keep going. Show us something we can help you with, like a COMPLETE part at least of a model (COUUGH DO THE WHEEL) so we can critique you instead of hand over knowledge to you, don't expect us to give you a foundation. Some of us payed for that.
Because i don't want to make any more posts like this, and because I do want polycount to be a place for people to learn, here is some reference.
I honestly don't even feel good posting these, I literally googled, "modeling a high poly wheel" and clicked on every result of the first page. Do this always, before asking here. A lot of people hate repeating information, it's why they document it and put it someplace you can find on google.
http://cgi.tutsplus.com/tutorials/model-a-high-poly-car-wheel-in-3ds-max-part-2--cg-1373
http://cgi.tutsplus.com/tutorials/model-a-high-poly-car-wheel-in-3ds-max-part-1--cg-1296
There are two, there are so many more for different techniques.
Perna is right, your an american idol contestant right now, and we are your judges and you are not going to hollywood buddy. Not right now at least.
I really think your next post should show us some art. Not excuses.
"Believe it or not, I'm one of the least stubborn people you'll ever know. Maybe it's because of the internet, that makes it all the harder to pick up on it, but perhaps if this was a real life conversation, I guarantee you guys will be enamored by what I have to say."
And now I'll be harsh. Talking this way is the fastest way to turn people off not only from you, but your work. This type of attitude will not get you a job. You've guaranteed that I would be enamored, but right now it is the exact opposite.
I'll echo what many great artists have already told you. I, in no way, care about what you have to say. It will not enamor me or anyone else. You know what will?
Showing us amazing work.
Stockwell is right - model the shit out of that tire, search on polycount for every tire you can find and see how people are beating you, and then try to hit that level of quality if not surpass it. Keep making tires until you do. Then, at that point, you can pick another part of the bus to go about.
Just model and stop telling us there is a communication error. Eat your humble pie and get to work and you will be a better artist for it.
Got ya! That was my first 3D model ever literally from a year ago.
Now here's what a year improvement can do.
Much better.
not really. your model is wrong in many places, and jacking up the segments won't make a difference.
search for reference from other angles, or BETTER YET, go outside with a camera find a parked truck and take closeups and whatever ref you need. how rust gathers in the crevices, the numbers on the tire, what do they say, what font do they use, what's in the goddamn holes around the rim etc. there are stuff that you dont get from a picture unless you see it yourself, and only then you will be able to breath life so to speak, to a 3d model.
Really? Go outside and take pictures of tires with a camera? Come on. It sounds like you're looking for any excuse to rag on the guy now.
"Sculpt a tire from clay first, get a feel for the shapes and the forms. Create a tire in your mind's eye and extrapolate the meaning of the tire in context with the whole body nature of the vehicle it services. COME ON, NOOB!"
This... why even do this? I don't understand.
Okay there is some progress. A lot is wrong with it still though, it's by no means great but it is a lot better than what you have ever done. Some people have given you some good feedback, NOW THROW THIS ONE IN THE TRASH AND MODEL ANOTHER!!! :poly142:
Fixed that last part for you.
Really though, model another one and show us a render without a wireframe, we can't see what the actuall model and smoothing looks like. Doesn't look like your even using a turbo/meshsmooth. Try again with that.
Wait, what? How do you think I got the the geo count so high? Modeling 25,000 polygons one by one would have taken more than a day. The only things not smoothed out are the bolts and treads.
It's hard to see but I did lift up the front surface of the tire and chamfer some of the sides. True, it is still closer to a cylinder but there are micro variations. I obviously need to make it more noticeable next time though.
Keep in mind this is a bus wheel. Some of the detail wouldn't be noticeable because there are few gaps (and I don't think it's worth to model something you would never see in a game anyway).
But I see some stuff I can add to my rims/tires next time.
What the FUCK is wrong with you?? Do you seriously think that you have an open fucking shit lane to this guy cause Perna told him like it is? There's a difference between being harsh but honest and a fucking douche bag.
There's been like 10 posts telling him to humble down, start with the right small thing and that the next post should eb art. He did just FUCKING that. CHILL. THE. FUCK. DOWN.
But I do think you said something that's true though.. JordanN, you shouldn't settle for that tire to be your final. Just look at what a bus tire look like, try to get the grip pattern correct (it's hard), get the separation between metal and rubber to stand out (in a realistic way), model your rim without shortcuts to the actual shape (can be even harder) like those small bevels under the bolts. All of it. You'll know the mighty shit storm that is this thread is will strike down if you don't, right? :poly121::poly142: I don't know if you know how to use the bend modifier, that might be a good way to get you pattern in..
Good luck!
Just think about how it would be built in real life and try to construct it similarly. If metal pieces are welded or cast from the same material on to each other don't break the smoothing by making them be floaters.
Again? What is this? Piss on the noob day? You're 35? Start to act like it..
That's just plain silly. First of all, you don't have to "counter" us. This isn't magic the gathering, were not trying to hurt you, we're trying to help. If you feel the need to respond, do it with improved art, not shitty wit.
Exactly my point.
EDIT:
Jordan, if in any way, i've offended you. Really, i apologize. I really just want you to understand that more work, iteration and practice will be the only way to improve. and that if you want something like knowledge, there is a practical, reasonable way to get that information, with the right attitude, and perseverance.
sltrOlsson, I don't even, cause you're just taking it worse than he is. I was stoked to actually see a model, that showed improvement in his quality of work this morning. Stoked for him. Telling him to do another one and use what he learned in this first one to make the second better? is pissing on him?
How many times have you called a piece of art done after your first iteration. NEVER.
You can call me a fucking douchebag all you want. I only want to see progression from you Jordan. My best teachers were my hardest teachers, my meanest teachers, but they pushed me to learn the more than other teachers did.
I still stand by what I said, I'd try tackling another one Jordan. Model out flat strips of the treads you can copy and sltrOlsson has a great point about the bend modifier. If used right it could help you make the treads in a much more functional way.
I'd still like to see a render without a wireframe too.
Take a look at your tire and tell me that the concavity, and the treads reversed out looks right to you? What tire have you ever seen that looks like that?
Start with a primitive cylinder and start adding loops or champers until you get the right shape, then work your way up from that.
The biggest thing I'd say, is you have to observe. Make sure the things you're making make sense. Don't blindly follow reference, think critically about the object and how it functions and reacts with the environment.
you are judging me, but look at this:
it's his 2nd one and it's obvious he hasn't grasped the shape. looking at things in real life helps. sorry if getting up from your armchair sounds tedious.
Whats that? :O
Can you link me to it, please?
Good to see you are taking the advice and starting with the tyre. Make a new one from scratch, and try getting the basic shape there, not just from the ortho view, but from all views, as others have mentioned.
I am certain that if you do a few mores attempts, you will have a decent tyre quite soon
And yes, people here are very harsh, but I think it is a good thing, as long as it is honest. I much prefer that over people just telling you "Oh, good job" if it isnt
Great job not quitting! Keep on it
LOL, which one is that again ?
Is it this one ?
http://hazardousarts.deviantart.com/journal/Lacking-Motivation-I-hope-this-helps-359045816
Or is it this one, lol.
http://hazardousarts.deviantart.com/journal/Is-it-Worth-it-Polycount-Thread-297339128
I see where he's coming from with this but the example is egregious.
I left a game dev program but I'm still interested in getting into games.
Maybe I'm a rare example, but I don't want to grouped as one of those "rockstar" people entering in games. I thought my posts from January 2014 to this month made it obvious that I was looking for more than just "rockstar" status.
Look at the Taxi I posted from last page. Everything I complained in that thread is gone. I can model past "PS1 graphics" with a lot better understanding of topology and tools.
I posted several portfolio threads on here. Something I was initially scared to do and even took a lot of criticism for. It's impossible to show now but if you saw my first portfolio and my recent one, they're different.
Again, I thought these were all signs I'm not joking or stubborn.
I know the industry is hard. I would never undermine or ridicule those who did get in. It's great that these stories come out so it's not just me who knows about it, but the whole world does too.
That was actually the first tire but with turbosmooth turned off.
I have a lot more references this time and I did go outside to see what tires look like in real life.
If you just finish the bus everyone will stop giving you shit.