Maya 2015 vs. Modo 801 vs Blender
Hi,
i am using Mac OS X, so i can't use Max. I started couple of months before with Maya 2014. I had feel that Maya is best and other programs like Blender/Modo/SoftImage are just little brothers. Today i know that they can be maybe better in modeling (that is where i am interesting in - create game assets), but still not sure. I want to try master one program, but still can't decide where to put my effort. I know some tools are same in all 3D programs, but you know ....
Has anyone experience with latest versions of Modo and Maya? Are for instance in Modo any tools, which are really great and Maya is missing them? I don't care much about better shortcuts etc., just in funcionality. I heard even blender is really great these days.
i am using Mac OS X, so i can't use Max. I started couple of months before with Maya 2014. I had feel that Maya is best and other programs like Blender/Modo/SoftImage are just little brothers. Today i know that they can be maybe better in modeling (that is where i am interesting in - create game assets), but still not sure. I want to try master one program, but still can't decide where to put my effort. I know some tools are same in all 3D programs, but you know ....
Has anyone experience with latest versions of Modo and Maya? Are for instance in Modo any tools, which are really great and Maya is missing them? I don't care much about better shortcuts etc., just in funcionality. I heard even blender is really great these days.
Replies
That said, i would go with Maya or Modo. And use Blender asides.
While I do consider this the ideal, I dont quite understand it as advice.
I would say it took me almost a year to fully understand all the aspects of max I am using professionally. Refining the workflow, finding the scripts that fills in the gap, discovering some neat little trick etc.
I am guessing it is the same for other software packages as well.
No matter how nice it would be to understand all packages 100% and pick from that, there is simply no time to do that, imho.
as for the topic, I would not advice XSI, as that is dying.
Maya is a sure bet, you cant go wrong with it. Cant say much about MODO, as I jsut started tinkering with it myself a week ago.
Basically, you should try every app. Run through a few tutorials. If you're not liking what you're seeing, odds are you need to move on...
I think we do agree, im just drunk and need to type stuff
Blender is free so you can always use it along side, but what is really good is maya as your main package, than use modo for any more complicated modeling work.
Also you dont need to understand 100% of a app, look at maya most people that use it only know about a small subset of what it can do. Since it does everything from modeling, real-time shaders, mental ray, dynamics, animation, and cool things like paintfx.
Just try them each out, blender is free, the education/non commercial use maya is free, and i think modo has a trial.
To the OP: I would try and stick with Maya unless you gave a good reason not to. It will give you the best job prospects.
It's essentially already dead, they killed support for it. Which doesn't mean you can't use it, but there'd be no sense in learning it.
Blender is free but it lacks of too many things i'm not gonna enumerate. And if you are a student, you may have the autodesk entertainment creation suite with a license for students (it's free). That includes, Maya, Max, Xsi, Motion Builder, mudbox, etc.
And modo... the app started as a subdivision modelling software, very very fast and very affordable (not like now). Since its very first version it had a huge lack of modelling tools, and some weeks ago, i downloaded the 801 trial, and it's all the same with some minor improvements for other areas such as particles, but not for modelling (it's a total disappointment for me, less viewport perfomance and bigger load times). I can say the modelling tools in modo are very simple, and weak (like all the other features), and we are forced to use scripts in order to get a fastest workflow.
I'm in the need of using max because i can't do several things in modo. Sometimes is really frustrating.
Maya has improved a lot in terms of modelling, but Max is still the best for that kind of task imho.
I'm still using modo 302 because it has not improved anything. btw, modo 601, 701, and 801 have issues working with symmetry (something really annoying and time eater), i make some edge cuts on one side (very simple mesh), and the other side get corrupted with mesh artifacts.
I think you don't need more than a week to evaluate a 3d app, and maya like max, comes with very good combo of videos to learn all the basics in minutes. Modo can be learned in 3 afternoons, dedicating at least 2 hours...
So, i recommend: forget blender... try maya and modo, yes both apps, because they are right now like essential apps for our resume.
Gonna make some enemies here, but I'd say Maya is hands down the worst. It's not necessarily a terrible program, but most of the tools outside animation are dated and weak, and many options straight-up aren't there, requiring scripts and plugins to get around. UV unwrapping in particular is an absolute nightmare.
The only important point in its favor for me is that you pretty much NEED to use it to work in a studio. But that's almost like being forced to use Windows '95 because your studio does, at least as a modeler. Not to mention THE PRICE.
If your circumstances allow any real choice here, I can't recommend it.
One thing in it's favor is that you can very easily create scripted actions, and save them to the UI. You can even read the code executed by any normal function in order to integrate that into your own script. I can see how it might be a very powerful tool if you work for a studio with a heavy reserve of custom scripted actions. Of course that would further clutter an already terribly cluttered UI.
Blender is much better for modeling, I personally love it. Not to mention it's completely free.
The big issue here is that, as an open-source program, most other programs in your pipeline do not effectively integrate with it, like Substance Designer or ZBrush. In some cases though you can get a third-party plugin that adds a certain measure of support, like with ZBrush. On the whole though, pipeline integration is awful. It also cannot effectively import .FBX last I knew, which is really bad.
Retopology is kinda crappy, but plenty of plugins exist for that. None of them so far can make it match Modo out of the box, though.
It also has a bit of a learning curve, due to both the heavy reliance on hotkeys and the mediocre UI. The hotkeys are the true strength of Blender though, and well worth it.
Modo is my new personal favorite. Even better than Blender for modeling, but also with great pipeline integration.
801 also seems to have really strengthened some of the weaker points like rigging/animating.
I particularly enjoy the retopology and UV mapping tools.
Unfortunately you're stuck with the ugly yellow/gray theme.
Max I tried the least of the them all, unfortunately. But this was because I really did not like it. It's definitely better than Maya at least for modeling, but it has a very messy and oversaturated UI, on top of relying heavily on the UI to get things done. Even Maya seemed to have a more streamlined UI, especially with the Pie menus and such.
Yea symmetry in Modo is incredibly busted, you're essentially forced to use mirrored instances instead, and I doubt they'll fix it anytime soon. Did it actually work correctly back in 302?
Modo is the wisest choice in my opinion. For starters, you have great modeling tools which work even better once you begin to delve into custom behavior and plug-ins, you have a great and highly efficient UV editor, extremely solid retopology tools/mode, sculpting and texture painting as well.
All this for more than half the cost of what a normal Maya license goes for these days. Maya has perhaps thee best viewport on the market right now, great snapping tools and a large assortment of plug-ins. Its animation functionality pretty much sets the bar, but thats it. It doesnt really cover most of the pipeline, and its modeling tools are weak compared to the others.
Blender has the potential to be a very solid application for all the basic necessities, but its not really there yet. Its extremely inconsistent in design and messaging from those in charge, it makes a great addition to another 3d application, but not really worth making as a primary tool unless you dont have a choice.
With the money you can save using modo, you can easily add in additional tools to make the pipeline even more solid, such as substance designer and painter. You may even find Mari a solid addition to the pipeline later if they ever push for it to be more accessible. Modo has some pretty solid plug ins and community support. It will cover most of your game art needs, for baking I would use Substance Designer and or handplane.
Its just smarter and more effective in the long run. That said though, knowing Maya is always a good idea for both employment purposes and just knowing what the "standard" is these days. Even if Maya was priced equally with Modo, I'm not even sure the cost of dealing with Autodesk would make it worth it... as remember they are more beholden to share holders and not necessarily their consumers. You dont come out of that "relationship" feeling or mutually respected.
@polyhertz, For the most part I have had almost no issues with symmetry. There was one time when making some pipes with the pipetool that the topology on one of the pipes became messedup, but it was as simple as using the mirror tool to fix that issue. Theres also a plugin that you can use that fixes any loss of symmetry if for some reason it breaks. I havent had it happen to me yet but I have the plugin just in case and have tested its use by intentionally breaking symmetry. Works fine.
Well, each one have their opinion, and as an experienced user i shared my point of view. If you are the typical modo fanboy, then i excuse you
I don't think what i said is incorrect or "at best", inaccurate. Facts are facts, and i argumented them. You in contrast, like too many other times, it seems you don't like to read bad and real issues about the app you may love. Let's be more objetive and less passionate. With time, newer and better apps will arise, and we can't be using the same app for all our whole life.
I think you may be quite young, so for your information, when modo appeared, i recommended it here. Silo was said to be the very best in subdivision modelling apps by Silo fanboys. Right now, Hexagon and Silo are DEAD.
Well, i can say you older versions works better (401, and 501 were very bad versions). It's very weird to see a mesh corruption working with simmetry mode in modo 302. In newer versions they added a mesh clean up for fixing errors, but at the end... Seneca's script works better. It's a shame.
The 302 version loads almost as fast as the paint of windows, and i don't run into simmetry issues. There are some cases/modelling operations that will end in errors, but in 302 we can avoid them changing our way of modelling.
But with these last versions, is horrible. I need to delete one half of the model, and do a simmetry constantly. Nor the simmetry fix tool works well in these new versions, it leaves too many vertices untouched :S. I can't stand that kind of issues. Luxology launches more than 5 service packs, they solve some bugs but they generate more.
edit: when an app needs more than 4 SPs is for some reason...
You're probably right. I'm just a fan boy with no real world experience using Modo. Thanks for setting me straight.
For the record, I've bitched incessantly about Modo's shortcomings - particularly in the areas of mesh smoothing and normal map baking. But I have a really hard time wrapping my head around the idea that the modeling tools are weak. That's just so far off from my own experiences that I really can't formulate an answer. Modo is the best modeling app I've ever used, symmetry issues aside.
http://snefer.blogspot.com/
modelling in modo is total beast and the user interface is just better .
Side note: It appears it hasnt died completely after all. There's news of new development... but it might have come a tad too late, at least with the tarnished reputation. Theres always demand for good modeling apps.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=175&t=1166786&page=1&pp=15
There are a few. The video tuts are not as vast or beginner level as many of the other applications, but they do exist.
I highly recommend:
1. Digital Tutors training videos, they do a great job at teaching Modo.
http://www.digitaltutors.com/software/modo-tutorials
2. Modo Steam Edition videos made by the renounced Modo Master, Greg Brown.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=202604023
3. Modopedia
http://www.modopedia.com/
4. Hopping into the Modo Steam Edition chat channel via the Modo SE hub, and talking directly with Greg Brown or any other Foundry rep thats there.
5. The Foundry's (Luxology's) Doc Page-wiki (with tuts).
http://docs.luxology.com/modo/701/help/pages/gettingstarted/BeginnerTutorial.html
I recommend turning off the Track Ball rotation as well, as it has some strange behavior that takes getting used to. Its a big turn off for a lot of new Modo users. Also look up how to use the Action Center menu, as this will set the behavior of what you select and what you get. For example setting it to Selection under action center will have your selection result in a type of local transform widget, of which you can pull out along the direction of the normals.
Oh I agree with your sentiment, but what appears to be the case is that "now" they are developing another version of it. Dead usually means theres no further development, so if the link I posted is true, then its not quite dead, speaking from a technical POV. I have no attachment to Silo nor have I ever really felt the need to use it.
And yes Action Centers are fantastic; I'd recommend learning the hotkeys for some of the common ones. By default you have alt+x for local and alt+z for element.
I have always disliked trackball myself, but now that I have forced myself to use it for a week, I am already starting to like it over the contrained rotations.
Thanks for they hotkey tips!
If I ever want a snapped view I just ctrl+space to go to right/front/top orthographic views. Haven't felt the need for precision beyond that in the perspective view.
here is my works did in blender recently. http://mmaaxx.artstation.com/
I believe around 2009 - 2010 Blender was even a bit ahead of Max, before Autodesk woke up and did an essential advance. Many new features like Shader fx while being definitely more advanced were somehow silently possible in Blender long before.
Blender recently updated its fbx export/import and it finally became more or less interchangeable with Max/Maya pipeline. Still you need one of those to edit/ transfer vertex normals for example.
Didn't work in Maya since the middle of 2000 years . That time I had a strong impression you have to hire programmer first, before doing something there.
like set flow for an edge
or even simple stuff such as just straighetening (many edges at once) or relaxing uvs, the unfolding with seams is cool and all but if i change stuff and want the rest of the shel to relax around my changes, how would i do that in blender?
If you ask me, use what you are comfy with.
EDIT: You do however need to learn a certain type of workflow and get a full grasp of it.
Truth be told, I am a Maya user and used to work with Softimage XSI.
Autodesk Maya; The only thing that I use it for is final lowpoly texture. These days I can do that almost everything in zbrush so I dont even bother using any 3d software until it comes down to low poly transfer, rigging and animation. Now my workflow is as follows; Zbrush, 3d Coat, Maya + Photoshop.
have you seen this Blender UV tutorial yet? if not its around 25 minutes and in my opinion totally worth seeing.
[ame]
for the straightening -this addon is a total joy
[ame]
As of Set flow Autodesk does have some advanced features over Blender after 2010. But you could use loop cut ctrl+R and subdivide/loop cuts number and smoothness options in tool parameters to place edges evenly after initial edge cut .
As someone in Blender who has manually selected every line and scaled it back to the X or Y axis can I just say.
My life was a waste
Regarding Blender, its still lacking the polish and even intelligent design in some places, well most places really, but its also extremely functional despite that. Its a good idea to hold off using it until the new keymap is in.
Same goes for Blender. it had it's own pretty nice retopo, snapping, painting, uv tools long before similar things started to appear in Max for example.
edit: Modo Indie actually does look like a pretty good option as well.
well, you have only a handful of developers for say maya or max and on the other hand you have way more end users that are developing solutions to their own problems. so its only natural to have alot of good ideas pop up as "user created content"
EDIT: I've only really scratched the surface, but some stuff I've seen already, e.g. Element move, the workplane, etc. is really nice.
It's my personal threshold. If I wasted a weekend for a tool and still can't get anything useful I tend to believe it's not because of my IQ , ha-ha, but rather something wrong with the tool itself "made by artists for the artists" maybe at another planet .
Just wondered what they thought of it, was thinking of picking it up.
Thanks for the tips. I definitely have to give Modo another chance.
Like its texture baker actually . To bad its materials/replicators/shading system is too confusing for me even with nodes
+Modo