I am but it's not going to be solution for everything.
I'll never be able to afford 3DS Max or Zbrush if I don't have a job. How am I suppose to remain competitive without that?
I've also said there are no game studios in my city. So even if I have a portfolio, my next plan is "ok, so how do I actually travel to a studio now"?
Autodesk offers everything they have for free for students to learn. Use Mudbox instead of Zbrush until you can get Zbrush. Use GIMP instead of Photoshop. Shit, I think you can download CS2 or CS3 completely free from Adobe. Google it. Yes it's good enough for 3D texturing.
I'm about an hour north of you. Brampton is like 4x the size of my city, with a much better bus service and much closer to Toronto, which is starting to boom with big name studios. You can also work pretty much anywhere in Canada, including other big game-dev hubs such as Vancouver and Montreal, without much resistance.
You went to the exact same college as I did and you live much closer. They offer a Game Development program with access to a lot of shit that will help you out. Take out a loan if you need to. Or learn from home and save a bunch of money.
So you've been searching without avail for the last 4 year's?
Lower your expectations and standards or simply put, you are doing it wrong.
Why havent you volunteered at all during that time? Why haven't you took on junior or apprentice roles? Why are you assuming that life is fair and all dandy and that you have every right to walk into that game dev job?
You need a slap to reality my good sir. I've crawled, clawed and in one case danced to just get where i am and that's not far. Not even in game dev. I've worked in the UK, 12 hour shifts, 5 days a week for minimum wage. From that hell hole i've gotten contacts and moved up a rung in the endless ladder of life. I've barely got a 3D portfolio these days since i started Web dev to pay the bills. I enjoy 3D more than web development but hell, i like eating.
Post your CV up and people can help. Read how to write cover letters. Read how to write CV's. Apply for agency work. Don't like the idea? Then stay where you are. You haven't committed to anything based on your previous post's and work.
I checked your portfolio out here: http://jordannelson2.weebly.com/ And on pressing advanced post, i've seen that justin has already pointed out you have 2 peices.
I'll save any more criticisms until you post your CV and to save repeating anything previously said.
I haven't updated my portfolio since March (the last time I was looking for critique). This was the same time Unreal Engine 4 got released and I was making a shift towards that.
I'm committed. I still have all these unfinished scenes saved on my hard drive in additions to new ones.
I've been taking people's advice of improving my drawing first before stepping back in 3D. It definitely doesn't represent my current abilities (i.e uv mapping, physically based rendering, better perspective drawing etc).
I wish I had someone to tell me about apprenticeship. I did do some volunteering however but I've since focused on just applying directly to businesses instead.
Pro-tip (I'm pro...because I've worked at Burger-king, Taco Bell, and a long list of other jobs before I started doing this for a living)
Don't hand in a resume for dishwasher/fastfood positions...just the application
Skip the job fairs. The guy at the job fair is probably a regional manager who doesn't give a shit..he's collecting applications to pass out to his stores.
When you are filling out applications for places like McDonalds, the main thing is that it is neat and clear (when you grab an application, always grab two- so you have a backup incase you accidentally smear a burito or something on it). When you turn it in, don't hand it to the jackass behind the counter, ask for the manager ( don't do this if they are even a little busy..come back when they are dead..usually right when they open..GMs usually work opens). When you talk to the Manager, tell them you are looking for a job and that your availability is completely open.
Also, don't just stop at one....Hit every joint in your town. Fast food places always have labor problems, and they are always looking for someone that can shore up hours without putting their workers over 40 hours.
Not saying that this won't suck, but it should be an awesome motivator. The first time someone screams at you because you didn't add an extra pickle to their Goddamn hamburger should have you grinding out a kick ass portfolio so you don't have to fucking work there anymore...
I had to google that, it seems to be a phrase used in the UK & Australia but not North America. The internet says our equivalent is "burning your bridges" but I don't think it means the same thing as we typically tell you not to burn your bridges over here.
Really? I actually heard the story behind the expression on a american podcast (radiolab)
Oh come on dude, don't be mean. I even said I wasn't looking for pity but I'm almost reconsidering...
Moving out isn't easy. Where am I going to go? Who's paying for it? What guarantees are there? All of this takes money but my bank account says $0.
This situation is real. Want me to show you all my emails I sent and received for jobs over the past 4 years and the responses I got?
I wish job hunting was easy. I wouldn't have had to make this thread expressing concern over it if it was the case.
Sorry mate, didn't want to be mean.
There are some great advices here. But people would help you even more if you would post some of your work for critique and guidance, than to post complaining about life
It's not that I'm making excuses, I'm just trying to take the path of least resistance.
I'm not even sure how sustainable selling models is. It's just like trying to sell regular art. There's already a billion of them, why would people pick mine (and I'm far from being the greatest artist right now)?
I rather put more effort in landing a permanent position at a studio or restaurant.
I once saw a shitty beanie style hat with photo sourced textures selling on turbosquid or some other model selling website for about 10 dollars or so, it had 9 reviews, he made at least 90 dollars....for what a hours work tops?
there is a market for everything, you just have to sell it.
and by it I don't just mean your product or objects, but you have to sell yourself to employers in whatever field you are going into, you join even mcdonalds your wage is a investment, they are looking to profit off that investment, don't ask for a chance because you won't be given one, giving someone a chance who doesn't have a proven track record in todays business world is gambling.
what is essential is that you convince them you will be worth what they pay you and more.
Here's the last resume I used. Putting up the most relevant experience I have without working.
Firstly, chronological order is a must, reorder the entries so they are in appropriate order.
Get a personal summary, not a objective. you have little work experience so a paragraph personal summary will suffice. Sell yourself in this paragraph.
Volunteer work was only for three months in 2011? It still should be above the education section though. You haven't had anything new to do since April 2013 so i recommend you get back to volunteering in charity shops etc. At the very least it will give you a structure to work around. You can do a few hours a day, get home do portfolio stuffs and job applications and you'll delay that burnt out feeling by having something productive going on.
It also offers greater opportunities and gives you some marketable skills. Something i've yet to put into practice is cycling your voluntary work around different stores. Easy way to build references and get contacts.
You can also approach local businesses and ask if there are any going junior or entry level roles. (for any work) Doesn't have to be something you enjoy, just get that work experience in there. Getting a job when you have one is 10x easier.
Look, with a youth unemployment rate of roughly 20% in Toronto, it isn't easy to find work, especially paying work of any kind. I experienced it, and it wasn't fun working 12h night shifts at No Frills as a University graduate. That was in 2005. From my understanding, things have further declined since then, so I do not envy you in the slightest.
That said, you're living at home, so you really don't need any money unless your parents are depending on you to contribute. From the sounds of it, they don't. Don't expect free-time, don't expect spending money, don't expect to have a girlfriend or anything else. If you're looking for work, you should have less time than if you were working. If that isn't the case, you're not trying hard enough.
Personally, I worked quite hard, and demonstrated to everyone around me that I was willing to work like an animal, regardless of the job at hand. I expect most of the employed people on these boards did the same.
Everything I do, I do to the best of my ability, and while it might mean you neglect other parts of your well-being/life, it is often required, especially when trying to get yourself off the ground.
Work hard, show you're working hard, and someone, somewhere will recognize it. They'll help you if they think you can help them.
Given you're Canadian maybe try looking for cg positions both in and out of games. You don't need a lot of portfolio pieces to stand out, just as long as you have portfolio pieces that stand out.
There are advantages to not being employed. You have the ability to work on what you want to work on (given you're not starving to death). Take advantage of your position, put yourself on a schedule, and knock something cool out.
The fact is, if you want to get an industry job, talking about it won't do anything. You HAVE to create something.
If you don't have a commercial license for your software(which isn't necessary for creating things, only selling them), get an educational license, if you can't get an educational license, use free software, such as Blender!
It might be beneficial to try forming a game development team with some other people eager to create something. I formed a small team a few years ago when I knew absolutely nothing and it is only through the amazing friends I made on my team that I have been motivated to keep working. If you can't form a team, then try to make an art group or just show your work off here on Polycount. Having somebody else see and compliment your work can really improve your motivation, at least in my experience.
That being said, if you need a normal job to help pay bills, then don't be afraid to lie. For starters, if you are applying to a job like McDonald's do NOT list your college experience. The people who run the store most likely don't give a shit about you. They need somebody to fill in a position. Listing college experience may actually make it harder for you to get a job at a place like that because that tells the manager that you aren't an idiot, and they don't like that. It takes time and money to train a new employee and if you show them that you aren't an idiot, that you have dreams, then that means you will ditch the store as soon as a better opportunity comes up, and they don't want that because it means having to pay to train another person.
I'm all for telling the truth, but lying in a situation like that is basically necessary if you want to advance your position.
I'm going to apply to another job soon but how do I hide I want to work on my portfolio and go to school from an interview? Especially when one of the questions right now is asking for my availability?
Would it be safe to tell the employer after being hired "I just got accepted for school in september" or would I be terminated on the spot? Same deal with my portfolio. Employers like to ask if you do anything in your free time so would doing portfolio work also distance me from getting a job?
The one thing I'm afraid about lying is when it starts building up and once exposed, you can't escape from it.
I think you are overthinking this, you don't have to out right lie, just say you are unsure about your future, keep your personal interests out of the interview, and say you want to be the best employee you can be.
I'm going to second the whole keeping some information under the rug, thing. It's not that you're lying, but there are some things that are just going to be a turn off to certain folks.
I've worked a few places where I was part of the hiring process (not directly game dev related), and honestly if someone told me they wanted to make games for a living - I'd take that as a red flag. Why? Because 90% of guys from the past couple generations have had that goal at some point, and most of them don't have a clue. They're just guys who want to surround themselves with games and get paid for it. It really doesn't sound like a great goal. And the alternative, more detailed & specific explanation isn't something people are probably going to understand anyway, and you don't want to confuse anyone in an interview.
I worked at a McDonald's about 5 years ago. I just filled out the application, got an interview, and was basically like, "I need this job. I learn fast and don't mind that I have to pay for the shoes." If anyone ever asked what my long term goals were, I'd maybe mention the art thing, but I'd usually just say "Well I work on art in my spare time, but...that's sort of a difficult thing to make a living off of." It's not a lie, and most people think "Oh he tries to paint pretty landscapes and sell them in galleries, how cute. I think I have a nephew who likes to paint!" Do I take the time to go into detail about how it's mostly digital, I don't actually own any real paint, and it's not so much gallery focused as it is production focused? No! Because people don't give a shit and them relating me to their nephew probably means I have a higher chance of getting the job than if I'm some weird artsy tech geek.
Also, if you're really desperate...
Call center.
They tend to have such a high turnover rate that they're always looking.
My last non game industry job interview went something like this:
"Have you been arrested?" "No." "What do you do in spare time?" "Mess around on the computer." "Can you be on time? You`re 1 hour away by car." "I will be on time." "Do you have a permit to carry a gun?" "No." "Well let`s get you through the course, it will give you a pay bump, when can you start?" "Tomorrow." "You`re hired. We start at 16/hr. Get to the site at 5am."
<handshake, paperwork, get uniform>
I had fun at the job, but I kept what I do/did out of it.
So I put some time aside today and applied to as many businesses as I could today (over 100) . My one fear I have though is timing. I recall around this time employers have already begun to hire people (because of summer). So I'm hoping my job applications aren't for nothing. I also made sure to hand in double or more applications instead of one this time.
On the 3D modeling front, I want to prove I'm not lazy and have posted my first work so far in pimping and previewing. It's going to be my first next gen model that will go with a next gen environment piece.
Lack of motivation is just lack of discipline. The worse thing you can do is make excuses. "Oh I can't practice because I don't have a job"
The reason I can practice is because I don't have a job. sure I have motivational issues, but I have it with everything including going down the stairs to make a sandwich for myself.
Dude register with autodesk as a student and then get free 3ds max mudbox maya whatever you want. Get sculptris it's free and made by the same guys who made zbrush. When you can pay for it get the real deal.
But see, this isn't fair. All my life I was told to never lie. So how was I suppose to know telling the truth to lying, especially for a question of "do you have a future planned?".
I'm on kijiji/craigslist everyday. I've also gone to my city's website and only found like 3 jobs. Though I will check again to see if they added new ones.
Good, ghaad sir I know this is getting side track from the current topic but, DAMN!! you live like almost where I live. <.<(GASPS....)
Anyways getting back on the topic;
There is nothing wrong with working as anything that can help you survive. Also; You dont have to spend money to get the softwares in order to get.
I suggest you go to the Job expos, registering yourself in job agencies, Dropping your CVs at the different and as many shops as you can find.
EDIT: As ghay as this might sound; I think its best if we gather up in real life and help each other.
My last non game industry job interview went something like this:
"Have you been arrested?" "No." "What do you do in spare time?" "Mess around on the computer." "Can you be on time? You`re 1 hour away by car." "I will be on time." "Do you have a permit to carry a gun?" "No." "Well let`s get you through the course, it will give you a pay bump, when can you start?" "Tomorrow." "You`re hired. We start at 16/hr. Get to the site at 5am."
<handshake, paperwork, get uniform>
I had fun at the job, but I kept what I do/did out of it.
Replies
Autodesk offers everything they have for free for students to learn. Use Mudbox instead of Zbrush until you can get Zbrush. Use GIMP instead of Photoshop. Shit, I think you can download CS2 or CS3 completely free from Adobe. Google it. Yes it's good enough for 3D texturing.
I'm about an hour north of you. Brampton is like 4x the size of my city, with a much better bus service and much closer to Toronto, which is starting to boom with big name studios. You can also work pretty much anywhere in Canada, including other big game-dev hubs such as Vancouver and Montreal, without much resistance.
You went to the exact same college as I did and you live much closer. They offer a Game Development program with access to a lot of shit that will help you out. Take out a loan if you need to. Or learn from home and save a bunch of money.
I'm committed. I still have all these unfinished scenes saved on my hard drive in additions to new ones.
I've been taking people's advice of improving my drawing first before stepping back in 3D. It definitely doesn't represent my current abilities (i.e uv mapping, physically based rendering, better perspective drawing etc).
I wish I had someone to tell me about apprenticeship. I did do some volunteering however but I've since focused on just applying directly to businesses instead.
Don't hand in a resume for dishwasher/fastfood positions...just the application
Skip the job fairs. The guy at the job fair is probably a regional manager who doesn't give a shit..he's collecting applications to pass out to his stores.
When you are filling out applications for places like McDonalds, the main thing is that it is neat and clear (when you grab an application, always grab two- so you have a backup incase you accidentally smear a burito or something on it). When you turn it in, don't hand it to the jackass behind the counter, ask for the manager ( don't do this if they are even a little busy..come back when they are dead..usually right when they open..GMs usually work opens). When you talk to the Manager, tell them you are looking for a job and that your availability is completely open.
Also, don't just stop at one....Hit every joint in your town. Fast food places always have labor problems, and they are always looking for someone that can shore up hours without putting their workers over 40 hours.
Not saying that this won't suck, but it should be an awesome motivator. The first time someone screams at you because you didn't add an extra pickle to their Goddamn hamburger should have you grinding out a kick ass portfolio so you don't have to fucking work there anymore...
good luck
Really? I actually heard the story behind the expression on a american podcast (radiolab)
Sorry mate, didn't want to be mean.
There are some great advices here. But people would help you even more if you would post some of your work for critique and guidance, than to post complaining about life
I once saw a shitty beanie style hat with photo sourced textures selling on turbosquid or some other model selling website for about 10 dollars or so, it had 9 reviews, he made at least 90 dollars....for what a hours work tops?
there is a market for everything, you just have to sell it.
and by it I don't just mean your product or objects, but you have to sell yourself to employers in whatever field you are going into, you join even mcdonalds your wage is a investment, they are looking to profit off that investment, don't ask for a chance because you won't be given one, giving someone a chance who doesn't have a proven track record in todays business world is gambling.
what is essential is that you convince them you will be worth what they pay you and more.
Firstly, chronological order is a must, reorder the entries so they are in appropriate order.
Get a personal summary, not a objective. you have little work experience so a paragraph personal summary will suffice. Sell yourself in this paragraph.
Volunteer work was only for three months in 2011? It still should be above the education section though. You haven't had anything new to do since April 2013 so i recommend you get back to volunteering in charity shops etc. At the very least it will give you a structure to work around. You can do a few hours a day, get home do portfolio stuffs and job applications and you'll delay that burnt out feeling by having something productive going on.
It also offers greater opportunities and gives you some marketable skills. Something i've yet to put into practice is cycling your voluntary work around different stores. Easy way to build references and get contacts.
You can also approach local businesses and ask if there are any going junior or entry level roles. (for any work) Doesn't have to be something you enjoy, just get that work experience in there. Getting a job when you have one is 10x easier.
That said, you're living at home, so you really don't need any money unless your parents are depending on you to contribute. From the sounds of it, they don't. Don't expect free-time, don't expect spending money, don't expect to have a girlfriend or anything else. If you're looking for work, you should have less time than if you were working. If that isn't the case, you're not trying hard enough.
Personally, I worked quite hard, and demonstrated to everyone around me that I was willing to work like an animal, regardless of the job at hand. I expect most of the employed people on these boards did the same.
Everything I do, I do to the best of my ability, and while it might mean you neglect other parts of your well-being/life, it is often required, especially when trying to get yourself off the ground.
Work hard, show you're working hard, and someone, somewhere will recognize it. They'll help you if they think you can help them.
There are advantages to not being employed. You have the ability to work on what you want to work on (given you're not starving to death). Take advantage of your position, put yourself on a schedule, and knock something cool out.
If you don't have a commercial license for your software(which isn't necessary for creating things, only selling them), get an educational license, if you can't get an educational license, use free software, such as Blender!
It might be beneficial to try forming a game development team with some other people eager to create something. I formed a small team a few years ago when I knew absolutely nothing and it is only through the amazing friends I made on my team that I have been motivated to keep working. If you can't form a team, then try to make an art group or just show your work off here on Polycount. Having somebody else see and compliment your work can really improve your motivation, at least in my experience.
That being said, if you need a normal job to help pay bills, then don't be afraid to lie. For starters, if you are applying to a job like McDonald's do NOT list your college experience. The people who run the store most likely don't give a shit about you. They need somebody to fill in a position. Listing college experience may actually make it harder for you to get a job at a place like that because that tells the manager that you aren't an idiot, and they don't like that. It takes time and money to train a new employee and if you show them that you aren't an idiot, that you have dreams, then that means you will ditch the store as soon as a better opportunity comes up, and they don't want that because it means having to pay to train another person.
I'm all for telling the truth, but lying in a situation like that is basically necessary if you want to advance your position.
I'm going to apply to another job soon but how do I hide I want to work on my portfolio and go to school from an interview? Especially when one of the questions right now is asking for my availability?
Would it be safe to tell the employer after being hired "I just got accepted for school in september" or would I be terminated on the spot? Same deal with my portfolio. Employers like to ask if you do anything in your free time so would doing portfolio work also distance me from getting a job?
The one thing I'm afraid about lying is when it starts building up and once exposed, you can't escape from it.
I've worked a few places where I was part of the hiring process (not directly game dev related), and honestly if someone told me they wanted to make games for a living - I'd take that as a red flag. Why? Because 90% of guys from the past couple generations have had that goal at some point, and most of them don't have a clue. They're just guys who want to surround themselves with games and get paid for it. It really doesn't sound like a great goal. And the alternative, more detailed & specific explanation isn't something people are probably going to understand anyway, and you don't want to confuse anyone in an interview.
I worked at a McDonald's about 5 years ago. I just filled out the application, got an interview, and was basically like, "I need this job. I learn fast and don't mind that I have to pay for the shoes." If anyone ever asked what my long term goals were, I'd maybe mention the art thing, but I'd usually just say "Well I work on art in my spare time, but...that's sort of a difficult thing to make a living off of." It's not a lie, and most people think "Oh he tries to paint pretty landscapes and sell them in galleries, how cute. I think I have a nephew who likes to paint!" Do I take the time to go into detail about how it's mostly digital, I don't actually own any real paint, and it's not so much gallery focused as it is production focused? No! Because people don't give a shit and them relating me to their nephew probably means I have a higher chance of getting the job than if I'm some weird artsy tech geek.
Also, if you're really desperate...
Call center.
They tend to have such a high turnover rate that they're always looking.
My last non game industry job interview went something like this:
"Have you been arrested?"
"No."
"What do you do in spare time?"
"Mess around on the computer."
"Can you be on time? You`re 1 hour away by car."
"I will be on time."
"Do you have a permit to carry a gun?"
"No."
"Well let`s get you through the course, it will give you a pay bump, when can you start?"
"Tomorrow."
"You`re hired. We start at 16/hr. Get to the site at 5am."
<handshake, paperwork, get uniform>
I had fun at the job, but I kept what I do/did out of it.
On the 3D modeling front, I want to prove I'm not lazy and have posted my first work so far in pimping and previewing. It's going to be my first next gen model that will go with a next gen environment piece.
The reason I can practice is because I don't have a job. sure I have motivational issues, but I have it with everything including going down the stairs to make a sandwich for myself.
Good, ghaad sir I know this is getting side track from the current topic but, DAMN!! you live like almost where I live. <.<(GASPS....)
Anyways getting back on the topic;
There is nothing wrong with working as anything that can help you survive. Also; You dont have to spend money to get the softwares in order to get.
I suggest you go to the Job expos, registering yourself in job agencies, Dropping your CVs at the different and as many shops as you can find.
EDIT: As ghay as this might sound; I think its best if we gather up in real life and help each other.
Security guard?