Moving Forward?
polycounter lvl 7
I posted this in my ongoing thread, but I think it was swallowed up.
So I am curious, and maybe I can get some guidance here. I am working towards character art.
I have been focusing on the skull where I can and trying to get it down, recently got Dr.Paul Richer's book and have been trying to understand some of the things inside of it, but I also wanted to know...
When do I move on? Do I learn the anatomy of the skull until I have it down pact, not sculpting much else? Or should I just learn general anatomy and proportions of the entire human, and then worry more about learning the details of all the bones and muscless and then the skin on top?
It had been recommended to me to generalize it first. That to do proportions first, Shapes second, anatomy third... but I wasn't sure if it was just referring to the skull because it is so complex?
A large portion of me posting this is because I am dead tired of focusing on the skull, I think I could use a breather, but I also don't want to waste time.. I feel like I should get a "Pipeline" if you will, of learning anatomy.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record, I just want to do this the right way. 3D is something I've always been passionate about but too scared to delve into, and now that I have...I dont want to learn any bad habits. It can be really hard to break them... (I learned this from years of playing double bass..Anyhow bad habits were learned by my muscles and even if my mind knew what I needed to correct its hard to discipline your muscles when the song is 120bpm)
tl;dr
Anatomy is hard. I seek further guidance.
So I am curious, and maybe I can get some guidance here. I am working towards character art.
I have been focusing on the skull where I can and trying to get it down, recently got Dr.Paul Richer's book and have been trying to understand some of the things inside of it, but I also wanted to know...
When do I move on? Do I learn the anatomy of the skull until I have it down pact, not sculpting much else? Or should I just learn general anatomy and proportions of the entire human, and then worry more about learning the details of all the bones and muscless and then the skin on top?
It had been recommended to me to generalize it first. That to do proportions first, Shapes second, anatomy third... but I wasn't sure if it was just referring to the skull because it is so complex?
A large portion of me posting this is because I am dead tired of focusing on the skull, I think I could use a breather, but I also don't want to waste time.. I feel like I should get a "Pipeline" if you will, of learning anatomy.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record, I just want to do this the right way. 3D is something I've always been passionate about but too scared to delve into, and now that I have...I dont want to learn any bad habits. It can be really hard to break them... (I learned this from years of playing double bass..Anyhow bad habits were learned by my muscles and even if my mind knew what I needed to correct its hard to discipline your muscles when the song is 120bpm)
tl;dr
Anatomy is hard. I seek further guidance.
Replies
If you start with something realistic and detailed, you won't see the end and if you do, it won't be as pretty as exepcted.
Cartoons shapes, simple topology and watch a few tutorials on how to model the head.
Should I approach drawing the same way? Get the proportions, then the shapes, then the anatomy and all the fancy shading?
Honestly though drawing is a pretty good skill to have in addition to sculpting so if you develop both of them you'll thank yourself later.
If you got some cash I'd recommend Proko's figure drawing series. His youtube videos have the same information and they're free so you can check them out first. There's other figure drawing teachers like Vilppu, Loomis, Bridgman and Michael Hampton you can look up, but Proko has a beginner friendly approach. Other than that you'll find the additional info you need if you're open to growing and remember to have fun. You can use other people's pipelines to grow, but ultimately the best one will be unique to you.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ProkoTV/videos
http://www.proko.com/figure-drawing-fundamentals-course/
No cash
Avoid technical tasks. Draw anatomy. Okay. I didn't realize how much is considered a technical task
I see where I need to be, but the road to get there is very bumpy with quite a few pitfalls. I should really stop focusing on the end, and really try to hone where I am now... Argh I just want to improve so badly.
Thank you again, I will try to not be technical with anatomy
Do you have any places to recommend? I'm browsing youtube atm.. Lots of O.K. things. I heard crtlpaint is good so I might browse them.. I have 0 experience in drawing, other than basic texturing.. So even with anatomical drawings I have to learn the basics
Was talking to a friend about anatomy, and she said that I actually should focus more on the shading than the lines.. Since lines aren't shapes, but shading is.. And if you only do drawings with shading you'll learn the anatomical structures as well..
Something like that.. "Anatomy is shapes more than lines"
AS YOU CAN SEE. I am still very stuck in my anatomy adventure, though I have been practicing and noticing an improvement, when it comes to drawing the abs etc...its hard to not do the shading, else you can't draw them period.
My other approach that I've thought of is to take a photo I wish to draw, identify the anatomical parts that I can and how they're moving.. and whats all going on..(Just a quick look, not going to be like "Oh the zygomatic process on this face looksweird..cuz I can't even see it.) Then attempt to draw it as closely as I can..
And look at it again...
Sorry for reopening this, but like.. I just feel so lost. I know I have made improvements in both drawing and sculpting from starting this figure drawing, but I am really frustrated that I can SEE what is there and identify it, but not add it to my own drawing just because I don't have the knowledge to do so.. I guess I'll obtain it as I keep working through these ctrlpaint tutorials.. and just apply what I can at least to the drawings I do until then.
tl;dr - > I am rambling about anatomy again
That sounds like an apophthegm you should avoid
So I guess a circle isn't a shape then? You tell form change by value change (shading). You can create shapes with both value and line, or either.
You are trying to set to many rules, and that kind of a normal process of learning things. BUT when you take it to far, it means you're trying to skip ahead, jump through the hard parts and get where you want tomorrow.
Seriously. For your own sake.Listen to the advice given in this thread and just don't worry to much.
If I'd go back in time, the only thing I would tell my younger self was to chill-de-fuck-out.
It takes time time to learn, and mastery isn't something that just comes to you through arguments and logics. It comes with doing.
I am practicing and trying, but I just feel so far behind and it is making me really want to rush everything I do. I'll try to chill out and just really really take things slow.
Its very difficult when I look around and see so much great artwork.. but I guess I do need to put in my 10,000 hours before I complain that I'll never be that good.
blah. I'll just shut up and start doing then!
The thing about drawing the outline of something is that lines don't tell you much about the form really. It takes a lot of careful line work to do what a well placed mark will do. The shading and shadowing really describes the form. Where an outline has to be precise and clean to make sense, working in a painterly way you can imply form with your shadows and you can fill in areas a little more freely and quickly.
For practicing and getting a better feel of anatomy gestural drawing should be fine. You're not making rendered pieces, just learning. Anatomy is useful to be aware of what you're dealing with. Don't stress too much about the details. Understanding the shapes under the surface gives a foundation so you don't get too caught up in what you think you see rather than what's actually there. It also gives you things to look for that you'd normally ignore.
Well, I can. I have no drawing skills and I'm very comfortable developing my anatomy skills only by sculpting. And I just want to say that you can definitely become a good character artist without drawing skills. It's just all about gathering TONS and TONS of references all you can get your hands on, observing, mostly using a good human basemesh in ZBrush - and starting with the lowest resolution and working carefully with each SubDiv level as much as you can before moving to the next one. In a nutshell. Of course, I still have a lot to learn, but so far it has been fun without major "valleys of sucks" if none.
Here's a bit of a proof of concept what I've done in the past, and this was entirely done in Sculptris. It's still heavy WIP because for example, hands are unfinished. This is kinda stalled project since I moved to ZBrush, and I'm currently working on with a better workflow: