Do you still make single items?
polycounter lvl 14
Because of the lack of single items going through and the view that community single item chests have now moved to set filled chests, how has that affected your view on the single item creation process?
Replies
Even though it's a lot faster to work on a single item, there's no point on doing 'random' stuff, since we don't have them on chests as we used to, so IMO the only occasion I'd be willing to work on single items right now is when and if Valve does something like New Bloom again, where they specified the theme they were looking for. I just feel that working on a full set instead of pumping out lots of weapons/hats/etc that will probably never get in is much more fun and rewarding.
I gather that after Valve greatly reduced the average cost of sets earlier this year they might have seen a drop in Treasure Key prices and have adapted their Store accordingly.
I think it might not be worthwhile to create a standalone Bounty Hunter dagger anymore but something more substantial for the Players' $2.50 like wards, abilities, summons *cough cough* and other items which can stand on their own could still be worth creating. I hope so at least.
Regarding what I plan on doing moving forward, I'm going to be making sets until I see that it's worth my time to do anything else.
Sets are priced less than a key because that's what the people* "decide". People buy the sets then sell for a key extra and it gradually gets lower, even to the point where people don't care about "assembling cost".
A set can go from 5 key, to 4k xRR to being worthless with time because more time = more items.
The only way I can think of to improve the "need" for sets is to limit how many can be sold at one time, for instance, selling a set number sets at the beginning of the month would cause more demand of the set, therefore increasing its value. The author of the set wouldn't make that much at first, but atleast the value would be higher.
It'd be nice to see wards again, too....
basically, valve is currently 'training' us not to make any of these things for them. Why? I don't know. Perhaps it's because there have been SO many submissions that this is simply a way for them to get us to cut down in the meantime before re-introducing them.
And if I were expand on that more, I'd also alocate courier and rare sets that come included with summons/ablities/etc as rare rewards for the set chest, and alocate wards and single summons as the rare rewards for the singles chest.
Man, you have no idea how many sticker capsule keys I've purchased in the last few days just to get my hands on the new SWAG sticker in CSGO. But to tie this into the thread, there is no reason they couldn't treat singles like CSGO treats stickers. :thumbup:
#deycallmedaswagmasta
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134171
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134142
covers your question from more perspectives. It's actually been coming up a lot lately.
But I bought a lot more keys when there where single items in a chest like a legendary mount or special weapon.
Like Andrew said why don't they add a single item chest next to the sets, maybe that would be a nice way for Valve to see what ppl would rather bu or spend there money on, single items or sets?
Also we did have a thread, the future of the workshop? Maybe we can make that a sticky and place these kind of questions in there?
Also Anuxi you have great contacts with Valve, why don't they let the community know what way they want to go? I really hope they will gte back to single item chest, because I love making single items. And I will stop making them if Valve would communicate that no single item will be accepted in the future!
If they're only doing sets in chests now (no non-sponsored set added for months?) how do you determine value? A 4 piece set vs 6+ pieces with custom ultis / particles etc. How is that split? I do believe the point of the chests are to balance value, I can state with confidence that a very popular set generates much more income then having a few average ones, just based on income / release dates.
If they're experimenting why not experiment more, so we have a rough idea whats going on, add a ward chest - chuck 5 wards in it, see how that sells, there are so many good wards on the workshop there's no reason not to. The weapon bundle and hair bundle were always top sellers, they must have been successful? Why not more of those?
I think Valve experimented with sets and single items during New Bloom where we had option to spend beast currency both on both. Maybe they saw most people went for sets. There are many questions but little answers to all this sadly.
I would be all in for single items but they should also change something in your hero. Like give you new animation, new particles, change one of your skills etc etc. That would be awesome!!
With that said, I love single items because they allow freedom that sets don't. One can make an amazing item that works so well and stands out nicely which sometimes isn't possible with a set due to set theme constraints. It is possible ofcourse, but that is a great challenge to make a set that matches an awesome single item.
Anuxi, are you gauging this community for Valve or something
People like sets because there are more items. If you had a choice to pick between 1 apple or 5 apples, everyone will pick 5 apples.
Plus the sets had a loading screen attacked to them and that itself was worth more than any of the single items.
I disagree. It depends on the apple. I'd rather have one awesome apple than 5 okay ones. And perhaps I don't want to equip an entire set, maybe I like the default, but just want a different weapon or piece of armor? I think there's a place for both.
I'm always for more options vs less options.
Also, the 'requirement' of a loading screen now is, to be blunt, kind of shitty. It weeds out a lot of people that might not be confident enough in their 2D skills but would still be good enough to pump out a great looking single or set without one.
Instead the Ti4 merch workshop gave me bigger freedom on what I feel confident at *__*
And you know what blows, chest revenue never went to the couriers.
"We dont pay out royalties for unusual couriers. We are under no obligation to pay for items included in crates if they were already listed on the store"
But hey, I signed the workshop agreement. :thumbup:
Yes please, I'm growing tired of watching wards only get accepted though league bundles.
I agree.
I'm, admittedly, a pretty weak 2D artist but I have been getting by with some good Marmoset renders and some background painting. But supposed "requirements" of sets have been increasing lately. This time last year a set was a set. Nowadays it almost feels like you need a loading screen and I can see custom icons, animations, particle effects and the like becoming that way too.
Absolutely this. The bar is raising and it's starting to reach the point where it's pointless even trying unless you have a small team of pro level artists or you have a deal with a team or league (which, from my experience, is terrible idea having been let down on three separate occasions).
Without single items as well, what chance is there for a hobbyist or new artist to get their foot in the door, let alone find any success with it? If I felt like I needed to make a set just to have a chance, I wouldn't have even started.
The longer this goes on, the more I feel like the workshop as we knew it is gone and that's really upsetting to me. It's really nice to see that the "big names" in the workshop feel the same.
I can justify spending time on a single item and it not getting in because it doesn't take long. It's harder for a set when I'm sacrificing family time and sleep to finish it in a timely manner with nothing to show. Seeing single items getting phased out (or at least no attention) is probably going to stop me from participating much more in the future.
Where are you getting this info from? I've never heard this, and was unsure to this point if loading screens were a good time investment or a waste.
OT: Never was interested in making single items, always wanted to turn cool single item ideas into full sets to complete a theme.
I really wish they would actually update the requirements if it is true. Or at all. Where's the particle/animation systems?
Loading screens are expected now because every set that gets in has a loading screen(or atleast most).
I think the loading screen is kind of pointless mainly because the point of the loading screen is suppose to be about the game in general instead of a certain hero.
The loading screen is just the promotion banner so its not that much time investment. Its just basically creating a giant promo, and cropping it to fit the banner image proportions
On one hand, sets truly are a cool thing to work on. They are very challenging design wise, quite technical on the execution side, but all in one, they are extremely rewarding and unique art projects (and great portfolio pieces too - much more relevant to actual game industry jobs than the average Zbrush standalone character). They do take a fair chucnk of time to build though, and them being used as "chest fodder" might, even indirectly, cheapen their perceived value.
I think it's only natural (and a good thing !) to see that the quality of submissions is evolving. It's challenging, but it also means that everybody gets a chance at getting better !
Regarding loading screens : not only are they a cool bonus but they also save Valve a lot of time, since a loading screen doubles up as a cool marketing picture that Valve can use directly on the store front page. I think it's up to the artists to think of anything that can give an item an extra edge, and the promotional material has always been a big part of it. [edit : basically what GhostD just said.]
On the other hand ... I do believe that single items can still be relevant, even at a time when Valve doesn't seem to be putting them in the spotlight. I feel like it is a matter of thinking outside the box of the bread and butter "cool sword for hero X". There is so much untapped potential !
Yeah, it's a similar aspect ratio. I usually work at 2x + res, only difference with loading screens is I get super anal about looking good at 1920x1080 up close, which I don't really bother to do otherwise.
It's less about the gamer or individual making items for their favourite game, instead it's becoming more and more serious and people expect more and more. I think this way the whole idea behind the workshop is completely thrown away.
That way Valve can also ask other game developpers to make items for the game and pay them a share. You know you have good quality, and people are working on it that know what they are doing. But than again the idea for the workshop was that the community could make things for the game, and that's about the end really quick this way!
So lets say you make a concept for a whole set, but only fully make one component of it like say.. a weapon or a head piece, and while that's on the workshop maybe half finish some other piece.
If the fist piece you uploaded does well, then slowly release the set piece by piece. that way you don't feel like you have to rush the rest of the set out to ride on the momentum of the first piece if it gets immensely popular (I certainly feel like the rest of the clock master set was rushed in order to keep it relevant.)
BUT, lets say the first component of a possible full set you released does less than favorable after a day or two. If it doesn't seem to demand a whole set, you could save time and effort be moving on to something completely new, rather than spend your time on something no one is interested in.
maybe post a picture of the whole set concept asking if people want to see more?
for instance..
lets say you post a cool helmet for Centaur or Axe, and you post with it the full concept and maybe some progress shots captioned with "Want to see more? let us know in the comments below!" it has the potential for more community involvement, hell even valve involvement.
maybe everyone is commenting "giff set" and stuff like that but also other suggestions like "maybe make the bracers a little more interesting"
or "I like everything but the weapon" so you can refine the set as you slowly release it bit by bit..
what do you guys think?
maybe start sets as singles and slowly build up as opposed to dumping the whole finished product on the workshop.
edit. Thinking about it a bit more I could see people shouting for full set however I am a bit worried after remaining pieces would be finished people would forgot they were waiting for a full thing...
This.
+1
volvo y u no post and giff update?
seriously... even just a word. "Yes we're going to update it. Stay tuned." or "No, it is how it is".
but I suppose that would then take away their option of doing whatever they want whenever they want if they "committed" one way or the other
Not at all, you can always upload a single item, if you then wanna make a set out of it, you upload again as a set.
sorry - I mean for valve. If they speak out with anything, then they can't as easily change their mind without potential backlash.
Also I didn't notice this but the last 2 chests added to the store were mostly from new contributors.
So guys get excited and don't lose hope!
Oh man, this is really great to hear. Thanks a ton for acting on the community's behalf! I believe a lot of people will be making collective sighs of relief haha
"The last set crate we shipped had items from mostly entirely new contributors, but I dont know if the community noticed. We want to make sure were regularly shipping content from up and comers, but maybe we should be more explicit about that goal."
I definitely noticed, I'm super happy they seem to have heard us, at least in some form.
thanks a ton for reaching out to them in regards to this, Anuxi!
Thank you so much for sending that email! It's a bit sad that we needed it to be done, but I'm glad that they replied.
Thanks a ton for doing this Anuxi! Its nice to know that they want to add more stuff from newcomers, I was about to give up hope
Amazing what just that small amount of info can do for morale
Thanks Anuxi.
Yeah I asked him to post on this thread as its always nice to hear from them directly, but he gave a very respectable answer that I can understand his reasons.