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Ergonomics

polycounter lvl 7
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Mr.Moose polycounter lvl 7
My hands have been giving me issues, probably because I don't type correctly to begin with, my left hand covering most the keyboard and my right covering the mouse and a couple keys here and there.

I'm going to need this to change before I start getting serious problems. I've been doing some research on ergonomics and would like to try and purchase an ergo keyboard and mouse when I buy my new PC.

Anyone have experience with going from s normal keyboard to an ergo keyboard? Any differences in issues? Also would like a recommendation here and there for keyboard/mouse.

The websites for each keyboard I've seen state the relative same things. But Im curious of the split keyboards vs concave..etc.. Which has been best for you?

Then mice.. I feel like a trackball might make my thumb joint have issues? Verticle mice seem cool, but they wouldn't work well on a keyboard tray..(at least not in my mind)

Kind of all over the place on this post, but thank you for your time!

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  • EmAr
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    EmAr polycounter lvl 18
    I've quit using a mouse several months ago. I use Wacom+trackball and no, it doesn't give any discomfort to my thumb. The movements you make with your thumb are quite similar to the ones when you play a game with analog sticks on a joypad. It takes a while to get used to though. I still can't play games with the trackball(which is actually helpful in my case).
  • Mr.Moose
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    Mr.Moose polycounter lvl 7
    Do you find it easy to move vertices and all when modeling?
    I guess it wouldn't be different once toy mastered control of it. Doing subtle things though, I suppose you'd have to setup the sensitivity and scceleration?
  • Marshkin
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    Marshkin polycounter lvl 9
    You'll be cursing at the start, because it will feel foreign, but like with anything, you'll get use to it.

    I would also recommend evaluating your workspace as a whole. So make sure you're sitting with your arms at a 90 degree angle, same with your feed. Back straight etc. Make sure your desk is the right height as well as your monitors!
  • Skamander
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    Skamander triangle
    I copy my reply from the workstation tips thread:
    As someone who has to type nearly the entire day on his keyboard I would recommend a good keyboard. From time to time I had wrist pain on my old 0815 keyboard. Since I got a ergonomic Kinesis Advantage for cheap I never had wrist pain again.

    But keep in mind that I'm a Software Engineer, not an artits etc. I don't know how well this keyboard suits a professional artist, but I saw one guy from pixar use the same keyboard in a presentation about pixars presto animation thing.

    Video (not me): Touch type of Kinesis Advantage USB contoured keyboard - YouTube
  • EmAr
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    EmAr polycounter lvl 18
    The sensitivity settings I used for my mouse were pretty much useless. I eventually found some good values and got used to the device as well. While I'm now comfortable modeling with it, I still find making fine adjustments to be easier with the tablet pen.

    BTW these things require a little bit of regular cleaning. The ball collects dirt over time but it's not as bad as the old mice with balls. The ball comes out and goes back in easily. Cleaning it takes about half a minute and I need to clean it twice a week.
  • Mr.Moose
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    Mr.Moose polycounter lvl 7
    Well I know my desk isn't the right height, my chair sucks, but I am spending money as I get it to improve my situation here :) I don't know what my desk situation will look like next fall, moving to a university.. so we will see what they provide.

    Would really love to be in an efficient work-like space when Im modeling. Might help from getting distracted as well :)

    The Kinesis advantage looks CRAZY like, how the.. even...what!! + its a bit out of my price range.. $200 for a keyboard with only a 60 day gurantee >.> Like, C'mon.. A year for that price!

    Will read through the workstation thread!
  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 10
    Personally a mouse is SOOOOOO comfortable within 10 seconds of holding a pencil or pen my hands ache and I really want to drop it and mostly I drop it and then pick it up again and repeat

    And im only 16 :(
  • Super
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    Super polycounter lvl 18
    I'd get round and see a doctor then immediately.
  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 10
    Super wrote: »
    I'd get round and see a doctor then immediately.

    I know what it is.

    It is a mixture of disabilities so no 2d art for me :(
  • Skamander
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    Skamander triangle
    Mr.Moose wrote: »
    The Kinesis advantage looks CRAZY like, how the.. even...what!! + its a bit out of my price range.. $200 for a keyboard with only a 60 day gurantee >.> Like, C'mon.. A year for that price!

    Will read through the workstation thread!

    Yeah, a new one is expensive, I was lucky that a good friend of mine sold his keyboard. Only had to remove the keycaps, clean them and it was like I bought a new one.

    Is a 60 day money back guarantee low? Most items I buy only have 14 days money back. What I don't like is the 2 year warranty, for that price they could do a 5 year warranty.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    I think first and foremost you will have to detail your computer use to us a little further in order to get valid feedback. Most of the computer ergonomics recommendations available online deal with the "secretary" setup (ie mostly typing) and while this can totally apply to programming, everything flies out of the window as soon as an artistic use of the pointer is required (either 3D for vertex manipulation or 2D for painting).

    Can't wait to hear more - and I hope you will feel better soon. There is no need for anything fancy when it comes to desk ergonomics anyways - the most important thing is to get the right desk height and chair. So, start with a cheap, wide board and trestles, and get ready to use a wood saw to hack at it ! I just built my own ultimate desk for about 50$ last week and it is the most comfortable I ever had. For the record, the one I had right before that was just about 3/4 of an inch higher and it felt horrible to work on.

    Also, I personally wouldn't recommend any of these fancy spinning/tilting CEO chairs, as they are the office equivalent of overly cushioned mattresses. I'd say, get something cheap and stable like one of these :
    http://medi-plinth.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shops/eshop897721/50E4/394D/8D56/4E8A/B8B0/C31A/5AE3/DA9B/waiting_room_chair1.jpg

    These simple chairs are usually referred to as "waiting room chairs". They are dirt cheap and will last you forever. You can then build a good workstation around that.

    As for keyboards, I personally use a IBM model M clone by Unicomp. Pretty cool stuff, super loud tho. Since most of my work involves 2d and 3d work with a tablet or a Cintiq, I use the keyboard one-handed 80% of the time. (except for typing this of course !)
    http://www.pckeyboard.com/

    Think of getting a good footrest too. I have been using skateboards as footrests for years now - they stay in place when your feet are pushing on the long edge, but the wheels allow you to slide the board sideways while working, which keeps you active. Plus the trucks provide for a good springy sensation. It sounds kinda stupid but give it a try !

    Good luck !
  • StephenVyas
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    StephenVyas polycounter lvl 18
    pior wrote: »
    Think of getting a good footrest too. I have been using skateboards as footrests for years now - they stay in place when your feet are pushing on the long edge, but the wheels allow you to slide the board sideways while working, which keeps you active. Plus the trucks provide for a good springy sensation. It sounds kinda stupid but give it a try !

    What the... This actually feels good! :icon60:
    Thanks Pior
  • JamesTKirk
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    JamesTKirk polycounter lvl 8
    pior wrote: »
    everything flies out of the window as soon as an artistic use of the pointer is required

    Good point!
    I've never thought of this! Have you ever seen a good article about computer artist workplace?

    I have a very simple chair at my job. I was very frustrated when they gave it to me but now I have to say it is very comfortable indeed. But not every simple chair is good. The angle and shape of the backrest are very crucial. It must support your back and set your posture.
    Another great option for chair is Ikea markus.
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    pior wrote: »
    I think first and foremost you will have to detail your computer use to us a little further in order to get valid feedback. Most of the computer ergonomics recommendations available online deal with the "secretary" setup (ie mostly typing) and while this can totally apply to programming, everything flies out of the window as soon as an artistic use of the pointer is required (either 3D for vertex manipulation or 2D for painting).

    Can't wait to hear more - and I hope you will feel better soon. There is no need for anything fancy when it comes to desk ergonomics anyways - the most important thing is to get the right desk height and chair. So, start with a cheap, wide board and trestles, and get ready to use a wood saw to hack at it ! I just built my own ultimate desk for about 50$ last week and it is the most comfortable I ever had. For the record, the one I had right before that was just about 3/4 of an inch higher and it felt horrible to work on.

    Also, I personally wouldn't recommend any of these fancy spinning/tilting CEO chairs, as they are the office equivalent of overly cushioned mattresses. I'd say, get something cheap and stable like one of these :
    http://medi-plinth.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shops/eshop897721/50E4/394D/8D56/4E8A/B8B0/C31A/5AE3/DA9B/waiting_room_chair1.jpg

    These simple chairs are usually referred to as "waiting room chairs". They are dirt cheap and will last you forever. You can then build a good workstation around that.

    As for keyboards, I personally use a IBM model M clone by Unicomp. Pretty cool stuff, super loud tho. Since most of my work involves 2d and 3d work with a tablet or a Cintiq, I use the keyboard one-handed 80% of the time. (except for typing this of course !)
    http://www.pckeyboard.com/

    Think of getting a good footrest too. I have been using skateboards as footrests for years now - they stay in place when your feet are pushing on the long edge, but the wheels allow you to slide the board sideways while working, which keeps you active. Plus the trucks provide for a good springy sensation. It sounds kinda stupid but give it a try !

    Good luck !
    How the...
    How can you possibly use a chair without arm rests? That's crazy.
    It's terrible ergonomics to just let your elbows hang down at an angle and will wreck you in no time. And no one could just keep their elbows perfectly level for any extended length of time with no support.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Depends on the distance to the desk ! Measuring it right now, my left wrist (= mouse wrist) is resting 30 centimeters within the surface of the desk - making the desk itself the armrest :)

    hair_zps7ad74746.jpg~original

    Just goes to show that every case is different ...
  • Mr.Moose
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    Mr.Moose polycounter lvl 7
    pior wrote: »
    I think first and foremost you will have to detail your computer use to us a little further in order to get valid feedback. Most of the computer ergonomics recommendations available online deal with the "secretary" setup (ie mostly typing) and while this can totally apply to programming, everything flies out of the window as soon as an artistic use of the pointer is required (either 3D for vertex manipulation or 2D for painting).

    Can't wait to hear more - and I hope you will feel better soon. There is no need for anything fancy when it comes to desk ergonomics anyways - the most important thing is to get the right desk height and chair. So, start with a cheap, wide board and trestles, and get ready to use a wood saw to hack at it ! I just built my own ultimate desk for about 50$ last week and it is the most comfortable I ever had. For the record, the one I had right before that was just about 3/4 of an inch higher and it felt horrible to work on.

    Also, I personally wouldn't recommend any of these fancy spinning/tilting CEO chairs, as they are the office equivalent of overly cushioned mattresses. I'd say, get something cheap and stable like one of these :
    http://medi-plinth.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shops/eshop897721/50E4/394D/8D56/4E8A/B8B0/C31A/5AE3/DA9B/waiting_room_chair1.jpg

    These simple chairs are usually referred to as "waiting room chairs". They are dirt cheap and will last you forever. You can then build a good workstation around that.

    As for keyboards, I personally use a IBM model M clone by Unicomp. Pretty cool stuff, super loud tho. Since most of my work involves 2d and 3d work with a tablet or a Cintiq, I use the keyboard one-handed 80% of the time. (except for typing this of course !)
    http://www.pckeyboard.com/

    Think of getting a good footrest too. I have been using skateboards as footrests for years now - they stay in place when your feet are pushing on the long edge, but the wheels allow you to slide the board sideways while working, which keeps you active. Plus the trucks provide for a good springy sensation. It sounds kinda stupid but give it a try !

    Good luck !

    Being a student I am typing ALL OF THE time, papers.. research, googling questions for help etc. I use my left hand a ton while working in any of my 3d programs. Whether I have my tablet or my mouse in my right hand. Currently I am typing on a laptop, which set on my desk doesn't give the best angle for my hands. I plan to purchase a entirely new pc + keyboard quite soon, anyhow.

    I don't type as a professional typist therefore my left hand tends to feel a lot of the strain. Which is why I am sort of interested in getting one of those separated keyboards :P I've got large hands and do a lot of clicking so I am really starting to feel it in my index and middle finger ( I switch when one gets worn out)

    My desk is just a bit too high, rather. The chair is a bit too short. I have it all the way up and my knees are slightly bent and my arms are at a wrong angle for comfortable posture. I try to sit up straight when I can remember, but my chair doesn't really help because its not comfortable to lean back in and rest against it :P

    So, When I move to my uni I am starting to plan out everything I will need to do to perfect my workstation.

    Now how to find the money to do it... We will see when that comes ;P
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 19
    I'm an anti-armrest guy as well but I couldn't imagine sitting on a cheap chair, you must have buns of steel! I purchased a $500 fancy office chair about 5-6 years ago and it's survived about 5 moves.
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