Using Reference/Concept Art for 3D the right way

Chiffy

Hey guys, so I've got a question that's been brewing on my mind lately. As a 3d character modeler who has a decent amount of experience, when I make models, I often make front, side, and back views of whatever object I have for reference/concept art. Then I make the model directly on top of the reference, or in other words, tracing the contours of it. I've been thinking recently though that it just feels like that, purely tracing, even though I might be having some creative input in how the model translates in 3D I feel like I'm not using my creativity enough. Do you guys as 3D Modelers feel this way sometimes?

Also even having a decent amount of experience, the problem I have is when I do not have adequate reference, be it a direct front or side view (back view not as necessary), and the reference is in a pose; I have trouble translating the character like I want. I feel like having had front, side, back views has spoiled me and it's hard to translate posed characters or skewed references into exactly how I want them.

It's also more difficult to model even if I have front, side views of the reference when the images are on my other monitor, and not as image planes in 3ds Max that I can directly trace over. This concerns me because it's like I'm lacking the ability to look at the references, and then accurately model what I see without tracing directly over it. I suppose this is where the skill of drawing would come in handy, or the knowledge of anatomy, something I am beginning to learn. Definitely seems to take a lot more time to construct a model in this fashion though, but I suppose it would force you to truly learn?

ysalex

Working from reference is a skill like any other. If you feel like it's an area you struggle in, try thinking up some exercises to practice.

Chiffy

Yes I know that, I'm just wondering if other's know what I'm talking about regarding the "tracing" and have experienced what I have. And if so, whether they can offer any specific suggestions.

visoutre

I think this is where figure drawing practice from life comes in handy. It forces you to translate the proportions of the model onto your page by observation. Working from orthographic sheets can make you spoiled as all the proportions are figured out. It takes practice to develop the observational eye, but if you practice like any other skill it should become faster over time.

Personally I still trace orthos most of the time because it's more accurate but I take life drawing classes in college so I can model freehand, just takes a lot longer since I haven't drawn enough and measuring proportions is always a challenge.

Drawing is def good skill to have

D4V1DC

I had that happen though sometimes we need references you shouldn't depend on them.

Try this just make something if it is ugly no one will see it and it doesn't matter after you make a "fake" default body or whatever the goal is check it against a real reference that matches your design or attempt.

Perhaps looking at both can tell you where your weak areas are, then focus on those before moving forward, baby steps to progression.

^I will take my own advice.

Mongrelman

By increasing your knowlede in areas (eg. anatomy, clothing folds, proportions etc.) you can 'make what you knnow, not what you see' to fill in gaps in the concept you are working from. It also gives you some scope to do some design yourself, such as if the concept isn't super detailed. You may see a few lines inplying some kind of fabric, so you then use your knowledge on how materials fold and how particular materials behave to sculpt them.

Or you have only have a three quarter view of some muscleguy; muscles are laid out the same way in human(oid)s, same insertions, so you can use your knowledge to do the back and adjust it to fit the proportions indicated in the concept.

JustMeSR

Hope I am not too off topic, but I wanted to ask pros whether you create what is on concept art (assuming it is detailed enough), or you modify it, add details (not like better winkles, folds, anatomy, etc. but like adding ammunition belts, puches, bottles... and other larger changes), change proportions, etc.?

Chiffy

visoutre wrote: »

I think this is where figure drawing practice from life comes in handy. It forces you to translate the proportions of the model onto your page by observation. Working from orthographic sheets can make you spoiled as all the proportions are figured out. It takes practice to develop the observational eye, but if you practice like any other skill it should become faster over time.

Personally I still trace orthos most of the time because it's more accurate but I take life drawing classes in college so I can model freehand, just takes a lot longer since I haven't drawn enough and measuring proportions is always a challenge.

Drawing is def good skill to have

Really interesting thoughts, you know exactly what I'm talking about . Yeah this just reaffirms to me that drawing is a good skill to have, especially observational drawing. I think in general I also just need to practice learning anatomy more by looking at reference of humans, and possibly tracing at first, then going without tracing so I can really cement the knowledge into my head. Continuous practice really just takes a while, I'm impatient haha.

D4V1DC wrote: »

I had that happen though sometimes we need references you shouldn't depend on them.

Try this just make something if it is ugly no one will see it and it doesn't matter after you make a "fake" default body or whatever the goal is check it against a real reference that matches your design or attempt.

Perhaps looking at both can tell you where your weak areas are, then focus on those before moving forward, baby steps to progression.

^I will take my own advice.

This is good advice, sometimes I feel like once I start a model, I don't want to mess it up once I'm far along the process, so that slows me down because I'm afraid to change things on the model that would cause me to go back and fix them, cause it'd take too much time if they turn out wrong. I try to tell myself to just save versions though and remember I have auto back.

Mongrelman wrote: »

By increasing your knowlede in areas (eg. anatomy, clothing folds, proportions etc.) you can 'make what you knnow, not what you see' to fill in gaps in the concept you are working from. It also gives you some scope to do some design yourself, such as if the concept isn't super detailed. You may see a few lines inplying some kind of fabric, so you then use your knowledge on how materials fold and how particular materials behave to sculpt them.

Or you have only have a three quarter view of some muscleguy; muscles are laid out the same way in human(oid)s, same insertions, so you can use your knowledge to do the back and adjust it to fit the proportions indicated in the concept.

So just increasing your knowledge in these areas by observing reference, through enough practice where you just memorize and know how things are/act to the point where you can fill in the gaps on incomplete reference, got it.

JustMeSR wrote: »

Hope I am not too off topic, but I wanted to ask pros whether you create what is on concept art (assuming it is detailed enough), or you modify it, add details (not like better winkles, folds, anatomy, etc. but like adding ammunition belts, puches, bottles... and other larger changes), change proportions, etc.?

Interesting point, I would assume you would follow the concept as closely as possible, and anything that's not defined you could have some creative freedom. Major details I'm not sure, I guess you'd take it up with the artists?