BobM'S Workshop
Hello there,
To quickly introduce myself, I'm a former big dota player who felt into 3D modeling for games a week ago or so.
To be honest, I'm currently really passionnate about this and i really can't understand how i didn't noticed this my entire life.
Since i have 6 free months to spend, i can involve myself alot into this (like 10+ hours a day), and i most likely will.
Ok that's over the life story telling.
I'm trying to learn as fast as i can but since i had no knowledge a week ago, it's hard to get started.
I'm currently modeling with Blender for low poly, Zbrush for sculpting and Photoshop for texture editing and masks.
I started with a dragon head idea for Dragon Knight (not really original i guess :poly136: ) so here is my first 3D model ever !!
Doing this and trying to bake etc made me understand the amount of stuff i have to learn to do items good enough for the workshop. So i'm in tutorial mode trying to absorb as many notions as i can.
Still, i have some questions i couldn't find answer for in tutorials or quick searching in Google, so here they are for you guyz
1)
I was a bit disappointed when importing my normal map, obtained by baking High poly onto low poly, in dota 2 because the effect is very very different from the rendering in Blender.
I can barely see the difference between my normal map and no normal map in the Dota 2 viewing tool, is it normal?
2)
Is there a way to do average normal map in Blender so that my low poly hard edges don't show up so brightly ?
I learned how to fix seams but i'm having a hard time finding a way to do this with Blender. Maybe Zbrush can do it i'm still in learning mode for this one.
3)
I saw in the texturing guide that Valve includes normal map in the color map by baking Point Light maps.
So my question is : Is there a way to bake these light maps in Blender ?
I guess i need some sort of projection in render mode or something but i'm not really succesfull at the moment.
If not, is it possible with Zbrush?
4)
My workflow for this item was :
- make low poly
- Sculpt to do high poly
- Baking etc
I read that it's better to go from high poly to low poly as it better fit the high poly but i don't understand how to get a good low poly out of a high poly.
I have tried blender decimate and a lot of simplification methods on Meshlab but my mesh always collapse when i go from 300k to 600 poly and it looks like nothing. Is there a secret trick to reduce so drastickly the poly number without collapsing everything?
Another problem i have with beginning with high poly is that I find it hard to estimate the level of big details you can have on your high poly that will fit in the low poly. (Ex : Horns and teeths for the dragon head)
Anyway, i have some exciting specific concepts i have been thinking on and doing basic 2D draws and i'm really looking forward to make them live through the workshop. I will present it to you in this thead to get feedback don't worry
See you around guyz and sorry for the text wall.
PS : Sorry for the English, this is not my primary language.
To quickly introduce myself, I'm a former big dota player who felt into 3D modeling for games a week ago or so.
To be honest, I'm currently really passionnate about this and i really can't understand how i didn't noticed this my entire life.
Since i have 6 free months to spend, i can involve myself alot into this (like 10+ hours a day), and i most likely will.
Ok that's over the life story telling.
I'm trying to learn as fast as i can but since i had no knowledge a week ago, it's hard to get started.
I'm currently modeling with Blender for low poly, Zbrush for sculpting and Photoshop for texture editing and masks.
I started with a dragon head idea for Dragon Knight (not really original i guess :poly136: ) so here is my first 3D model ever !!
Doing this and trying to bake etc made me understand the amount of stuff i have to learn to do items good enough for the workshop. So i'm in tutorial mode trying to absorb as many notions as i can.
Still, i have some questions i couldn't find answer for in tutorials or quick searching in Google, so here they are for you guyz
1)
I was a bit disappointed when importing my normal map, obtained by baking High poly onto low poly, in dota 2 because the effect is very very different from the rendering in Blender.
I can barely see the difference between my normal map and no normal map in the Dota 2 viewing tool, is it normal?
2)
Is there a way to do average normal map in Blender so that my low poly hard edges don't show up so brightly ?
I learned how to fix seams but i'm having a hard time finding a way to do this with Blender. Maybe Zbrush can do it i'm still in learning mode for this one.
3)
I saw in the texturing guide that Valve includes normal map in the color map by baking Point Light maps.
So my question is : Is there a way to bake these light maps in Blender ?
I guess i need some sort of projection in render mode or something but i'm not really succesfull at the moment.
If not, is it possible with Zbrush?
4)
My workflow for this item was :
- make low poly
- Sculpt to do high poly
- Baking etc
I read that it's better to go from high poly to low poly as it better fit the high poly but i don't understand how to get a good low poly out of a high poly.
I have tried blender decimate and a lot of simplification methods on Meshlab but my mesh always collapse when i go from 300k to 600 poly and it looks like nothing. Is there a secret trick to reduce so drastickly the poly number without collapsing everything?
Another problem i have with beginning with high poly is that I find it hard to estimate the level of big details you can have on your high poly that will fit in the low poly. (Ex : Horns and teeths for the dragon head)
Anyway, i have some exciting specific concepts i have been thinking on and doing basic 2D draws and i'm really looking forward to make them live through the workshop. I will present it to you in this thead to get feedback don't worry
See you around guyz and sorry for the text wall.
PS : Sorry for the English, this is not my primary language.
Replies
1: Valve mentions that their normal maps in game don't do a lot. Mainly it's used for baking shadows into the model so it looks great in game.
2: If you are getting triangle edges in your normal there is a way to smooth the mesh. Not a blender user though.
3: You can bake lightmaps in blender, again I don't know blender. Basically you set up point lights around the model with no shadow casting. Bake and use for overlays according to the guide.
4: There are multiple ways to skin that cat, really depends on model, etc.. Hard edges are easier to get by modeling, sub-d. A lot of people completely sculpt high res organic models.
Or you can start with a lower res model for the basic shape.
retopologizing is making a low that will fit the high good. You could make a new one or use the base for your sculpt. You gotta find a workflow that works for you and your programs.
I'm using ModoSE and its got a pretty cool retopo tool that snaps planes onto your high poly.
These are pretty simple blender Q's so someone will probably answer. But You tube is a great resource for blender tuts. You can probably find answers to baking there.
To solve my Blender issues, i think i will go onto Zbrush :P .
Looking a lot of Zbrush tutorial right now and it seems it got all the tools to solve my problems aka averaging the low poly and uv before baking normal maps and even baking lightmap via projection master.
About the workflow, i think i'll stick with my way of doing a basic shape in blender, then sculpt on Zbrush and trying to retopologize after that.
About the lightmaps, I think i missunderstood the concept.
You do it to bake your high poly details into your low poly textures right ?
I know how to bake low poly details with specific lightning onto the low poly UV but not how to bake high poly details with specific lightning onto the low poly UV.
I though i could use the normal map to do so but didn't succeed as the new light map erase the normal map and only retain the low poly details.
Every program has a way to bake lightmaps.
It's the same process as normals and ao basically. You just have to find the right button.
(In Modo I just apply a base dark grey texture, add lights, and bake a 'full color' map). Since the model only has grey on it it bakes a greyscale image.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OWy1QJN9c
Finally Dota 2 item tutorials are more relevant than specific ones
After a bit of tests and learning on the Dragon Knight Head, I have decided to move onto something else :
A fire djinn set for Ember spirit !
So far i have 2D concept for all parts and i began to make low/high head poly :
We can say it's my second 3D model
I'm trying to bake light map to make the color textures, but here is the problem :
The edges of my poly are interfering and i just want the details of the normal map to go in my color textures, not the edges.
Have you guyz a trick to contourn this issue ?
Are you retopologizing a specific way or something ?
Can't even try to make good textures with this currently so it's a bit frustrating :C
See you around.
Looks a lot better now.
I just need to find a way to fix these normal map seams and i'm good to go for texturing
Thank you again all for all your help !
edit : I'll probably do another Workshop topic when my workflow and methods are OK to have a clean topic with only results/models.
You really just need to find the smooth groups action. Sorry I can't be of help, surprised nobody else has said how yet.
I saw it mentioned in a thread a week ago but I have no idea what thread it was. Only half paid attention since I don't Blender.
--
Your normal is picking up the hard edges from your low. You low should look like a big smooth pile of dough with no creases. Your normal will take care of the hard edges.
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As far as crits on the piece, I think it's a good idea and fitting.
But your sculpt looks more like random bumps then seperated fabric wraps. You'd probably be better actually modelling in some obvious cloth wraps. Then sculpt in wrinkles and folds, etc..
quick google for genie came up with this, best I could find.
It doesn't really look like a turban to be honest. instead of making it look so smooth, use clay tubes to make it look like cloth is actually being wrapped around his head, instead of it looking like clay
Also learning is about your pace, but don't burn out. I would really highly suggest you look into the tutorial thread to gain an understanding of what you are doing.
Everything i found indicates that split edge is the Blender equivalent for smoothing groups on Max. That puzzles me.
Are you sure smoothing groups don't also augment the vertex count when in the engine?
I'll take another look.
@Mohsen & Heboltz3
I'm really struggling at making it look like actual clothes.
My attemps so far all look like clay, even with claytubes.
Everytime, the area beetween wraps looks ugly.
I think i'll check one or two cloth modeling videos.
I guess you can't become good at sculpting in 2 days
Put in the time and take it slow.
Yes, smoothing groups do the same thing. They split edges between them.
But that is NOT what you want. You want to have the low poly be one smooth blob.
The normal and bakes will give you the hard edged "look".
Only split if obsolutely nescesary.
I'm still trying to do something cool with my djinn ember set idea.
It currently looks like this :
I'm planning to add some details (cracks etc) on blades and shoulders.
Main colours will be Red/Yellow/Brown to be consistent with the basic color scheme of the hero.
I would appreciate any feedback before i proceed on retopologizing!
Keep in mind that this is my first serious item/set so be gentle
See you around
edit : I'm still not very pleased with the head, but i spent countless hours trying to make it look like actual clothes and i need a break on this :poly124: