Can you liveoff freelancing? - tips welcome
polycounter lvl 5
Hello there polycount,
I'm a jr level artist who gets the attention by indie studios quite often (must be luck of some sort) to get work, and I did some freelancing gigs. So my question is for current freelancers that are living out from it, and I know this topic was mentioned couple of times I read all of them, but maybe there are some that are doing it for the last 6 months or so and would like to share a few tips.
What I know is livingoff the freelancing can be really tricky because of building the client base can be slow and time menagment is a key. Should I just get every possible job and work with 5+ clients at the time? Because what I'm afraid of is not being able to meet the deadlines by an individual client.
My main goal is to be hired by a studio, and freelancing is just a way to back up my portfolio with some acuall experience in the industry.
Thank you for spending your time reading this/replying.
Cheers,
Martin
I'm a jr level artist who gets the attention by indie studios quite often (must be luck of some sort) to get work, and I did some freelancing gigs. So my question is for current freelancers that are living out from it, and I know this topic was mentioned couple of times I read all of them, but maybe there are some that are doing it for the last 6 months or so and would like to share a few tips.
What I know is livingoff the freelancing can be really tricky because of building the client base can be slow and time menagment is a key. Should I just get every possible job and work with 5+ clients at the time? Because what I'm afraid of is not being able to meet the deadlines by an individual client.
My main goal is to be hired by a studio, and freelancing is just a way to back up my portfolio with some acuall experience in the industry.
Thank you for spending your time reading this/replying.
Cheers,
Martin
Replies
My advice would not be to juggle multiple clients and try to stick with having one at a time - if the work is coming in slowly, you can possibly manage a second. Too many jobs at the same time disallows you time to focus on any single task and runs you at risk of not being able to deliver for all clients.
It also depends on the cost of life ofcourse but i for example would never start freelancing here in belgium since they make you pay through the nose for it.
Hey Ambershee,
I'm thinking of stepping up my freelance. You mention your at the top end of the market. Do you have tips for sourcing work? Are you mainly word of mouth or do you do a lot of cold introductions?
Games is an unstable career to work in to begin with, but there's no stability in freelance. If you want to do it for any length of time you're going to need to be careful and plan out your finances sensibly (more so than me at least) otherwise you'll end up spending half your time washing dishes at the local cafe.
I have a pretty reasonable reputation, so I'm often approached rather than the other way around. It takes some time to build this up, but being very active on places like here, relevant engine forums, indie communities and places like LinkedIn will help. There are adverts for freelancers pretty much everywhere though on the small scale indie side of things, so work shouldn't be too hard to find for someone who's actively looking for it (NB, the work might not necessarily always be good).
the more people see your work the better chance you have to attract more clients.
https://www.freelancer.com/
Does anybody have experience with these? Does it worth to build up a reputation there? Or any suggestion where to start to look for work? I read through the wiki but it's still rather unclear, most of the people were saying that it's just about posting in the Pimping and Previw and waiting for somebody hiring. But I guess this only works for the high-end artists only, not the best technique for newbies like me.
$50!?
If that takes you more than ~6 hours to complete the entire thing, you're making less than minimum wage!
For a highly trained skill utilizing expensive professional tools, no less.
I don't care how new and inexperienced someone is in the field. If someone walked up to me and said "Hey, so you've got this skill you've been working on for years, and you've spent thousands of dollars on the tools and training that allow you to do it. I'll pay you $50 to spend ~8 hours making something for me." I'd probably jam a fork in their eye-socket.
Hell, I once made $100 spending 2 hours making a printed billboard for someone to hang outside their store. A job I approached them for.
often i don't get this.. as "Young professional" why
people are willing to earn so less money - as freelancer or full time job.
Sometimes this makes me think about switching, cause of this attitude campanys are often pay less and less - (dont get me wrong ,pal). There areas where you can earn 4 times more - with the same technical skills.
@topic: never freelanced in this area before - but I heard you can get some decent money. As the others said - problem could be unstable situations.
The trick is, to earn good money -- moreover to spend your money where it has a high value. (Spending your rent in LA is expensive then be in Taiwan for example
Nope it is worse, you are horribly devaluing your self, and setting up a pretty fucked up president.
Like your working skilled work, that required a investment of computer gear, internet, and software to, work for less money than some kid at their first job flipping paddys at a fast food joint. (Who had to invest nothing)
That is not good for you are any other freelancer you're competing against.
Learn to show pride in your work and value your work.
@op networking is the most important skill, I make enough from freelance to live well, and got the jobs from knowing the right people and having my name brought up at the right time.
1) location: you need to make sure you live somewhere that has a lot of work and demand for your skills.
2) networking: knowing people across various studios and industries is going to make it a lot easier for getting work. although saying that, do not be afraid to cold-email a company if you have heard that they have a project that might need help (from you).
3) flexibility: (but not too much). when it comes to pay, have a bare minimum and a favorable high end. so for example, 150-400 with 400 being your normal price for companies who can afford it. being flexible for small contracts (1-2 weeks) with smaller companies, is going to give you a good relationship with the management. if they know that you have been kind enough to lower your price because they are a smaller company then they will appreciate your work a lot more (and as a result might come back to you time and time again) than someone who just comes in with a figure they want (or lower).
A few more things:
* make sure when you are contacted by a company or contact a company that you get to know the companies background, this allows you to better present yourself and make a lasting impression. it also allows you to roughly calculate how much they might be willing to pay.
* if you have the choice between a long term contract and a few shorter term contracts. it could be worth considering taking on both (if you think you can handle it), otherwise weigh up the companies and the projects. choose the contract that is going to most likely result in another contract.
* Know your shit. being able to go into a studio or work remotely and not just sit and do the work but actually get involved in the project and tech, giving feedback on the engine, direction and project. they are paying you as a professional not as an employee, they want your feedback on their project. This is because (and it is sad but true) your opinion will often be more valued by higher-ups than that of a permanent employee.
* Finally, I would say not to go into full-time freelancing until you are at a senior level. you learn a lot more in a permanent position in the first few years of your career and it will stand you in better stead later on. you network for the future in those first years and coming in without that is going to make it a lot tougher.
also I'd say that even if you have reached a senior and above level it is worth doing 1+year in and 1+year out of permanent and freelance (unless you have a massive backlog of freelance offers). This 1 year in 1 out is about expanding and strengthening the network you have.
crowdfunded, how you can make legit profit off IPs you don't own by pretending you're doing a "fan project"
:poly127:
It means xx number of artists will work for free and only one will be picked and payed a crazy little amount of money.
I'd rather build up my skills and work security or as a waiter then lose my time on shit projects you have to rush and can't even put in your portofolio.
I've been freelancing in the arch viz business for quite some time and freelance is as much being a business man as an artist.
If you're putting your pants down because you are desperate, you'll get ravaged, overloaded with boring projects no one wants to do for almost no money.
You will learn nothing, work like a dog and barely survive. Time will pass and your portofolio will stay empty.
All freelancers learn this the hard way, I know I did!
Have big hairy balls of steel and show the client HE needs YOU.
Never never explain why you charge the amount you do because you know what you are worth (and the client is only trying to mindfuck you into lowering your rates)
Welcome to the jungle
I have seen this thing a few times and I didn't understand the other side of the point of view either.
The thing I don't understand is the "McDonald's or nothing" philosophy. There's a segment of the middle-class that produces kids who are incredibly mentally lazy. If they can't get a job in AAA game development, they sit at home doing nothing for years then choose a dead end job in retail or fast food. Really sad to see people with all the advantages in life piss it away.
All I will add is that it is really hard. Not finding clients, just the work in particular, it can be very draining. You have to keep up a good pace, be organized, and there isn't time to suffer from procrastination if you want to keep up. This seems fine until you are on your 20th NPC dressed in casual jeans and your eyes are starting to bleed plaid button up tears.
So yeah, its definitely possible, its even a great gig at times, but not always.
Question: Does everyone else agree with this? I think unless you're really well established you need to take work when you get it. If you can't handle it all, sub contract some of it out to your friends. This has been the philosophy of places I've worked at. Doesn't matter how busy we are, if a client contacts us and wants us to jump on a rush project, we do it.
You know there was some effort to unionize the VFX industry in the wake of the life of pi pseudo scandal.
I don't think unionizing is a bad idea at all, I think it could really increase our living standards and win us more rights across the board, more fair pay, for fair work.
[ame="
If the client is not firm on the dates, I can set things up after a project ends. I just don`t like to juggle tons of work. This is a personal thing. I know people who can do 2~3 medium/large projects at a time. It is up to you to know your own limits.
Now that I am asking these questions... Do I add you on FB? Should I msg you about stuff there? Where is the limit.
TL;DR: I barely meet other artists.. How do I connect with them online without ever meeting them?
EDIT:
Regarding a union. It sounds like a good idea like writers guild..
How effective is looking for openings on individual company websites? Have you tried using a recruiter? What was your experience?
I know if I were a client, and I contacted someone because I liked their work, paid them, and they off-loaded that work on to someone else with a different style and skill-level, I'd be super pissed.
I think this is totally acceptable so long as the sub contracting is up to the standards and style that you yourself would deliver, otherwise yeah this is a no go.
I hire contractors at my job occasionally, and some of them sub contract some of it out (without asking beforehand. Sometimes I find out later). I pay them because I need to get the work done. As long as they do it on schedule and to the quality I want, I'm happy.
What do you do when it's not?
Well that's just a part of doing business with someone you've never worked with before. Every now and then they fuck you over. You just never work with them again.
as for subcontracting, it depends whether the vendor is an outsourcing house like ArtBully Productions. they can legally subcontract the work to other individual artists. although it is done very carefully and the artists are usually vetted.
if you are an individual it is usually illegal to subcontract your work off to another artist unless the contract specifically allows it. even then i personally never ever subcontract work to anyone. what i do instead is recommend other reliable freelance artists for the job.
back to original posters questions, since you consider yourself a junior artists i would be cautious about venturing into fulltime freelance. however anything is possible if you work hard at it.
i only focused on three things before going fulltime freelance.
1. quality of my work(portfolio).
2. speed of my work.
3. communication skill - writing and speaking.
i believe you need all these is ANY job. however, communication is the most important of all if you are offsite. the ability to communicate with clarity is very important and reduces the amount of iteration during production and avoid possible future bottlenecks. you also need to make the client believe in your capability and make them trust in you. you do that by providing high quality work every single time.
lastly, i rarely lower my rate for any client. i dont like to race to the bottom. it hurts my future as well as all other freelance artists futures. some people do that, i rather go without work for few months than race to the bottom. the only exceptions are when the client is ok with lowering the quality/polish in the work due to tight schedules.
besides all that, always try to provide high quality work every time and stand your ground on what you are worth. that is the only way to establish mutual respect and long term security. clients will keep coming back once you show them what you can offer for the right price.
Hi MM, during your 4 years of freelancing, have you got any gap that is too big that you call it a financial hardship which is hard to go by withing just sitting there not making any income, how do you go about that?
no. on the contrary i have skipped over many many projects over the years simply because i didnt have enough time.
several but very few are as efficient
i am sure you can find several with google...
one more question, you can ignore it if you don't feel like answering, are you making more money (averagely) than an average full time job at your level?
That's one of the reasons why it's better to attempt freelancing after you have already been employed for a couple of years. (The other being the experience/getting to know actual art pipelines, as well as already having some connections.
Also, if you get laid off, you might get some kind of unemployment benefits and combined this gives you a pretty comfortable start.)
If that's not possible for some reason, then you should start as early as possible in your life, when you still can get by with relatively little money.
Just be aware that you can plan only so much and best be prepared for the worst. E.g. companies screwing you over or going bankrupt. (While you probably can't afford a lawyer and there is no more money to collect, anyway, and if, it usually goes to the employees first. )
Less dramatic but equally dangerous, some tasks might simply take longer than expected, be it your fault or the customers, so if you have already been low balling, this might quickly break your back.
Don't wait too long to write your invoices, (e.g. don't wait 3 months because something isn't completely finished. Ask if you can write an invoice for the finished parts. If you can, set up the contract accordingly with smaller milestones.)
This way, if things go south, there is less money at risk.
If you can, ask for part of the payment in advance from completely new customers.
(Though i'd say that's probably more relevant if you work for customers in different countries and private individuals and less usual if you work for established companies. I've been a freelancer for 10+ years now, mostly for smaller low profile titles and there never was an advance payment. might be an oversight from my side, though.)
Ask for feedback regularly and point out problems early.
(Without getting on their nerves.)
I would advice against taking on several contracts at the same time, especially when you still need to find your footing.
(Perhaps if you have one big contract, you can accept really small ones in addition from time to time.)
Also, like it was pointed out earlier, don't subcontract, especially not without telling your client.
Of course it could go well, but also horribly wrong.
An exception would be if you have some friends who are in a similar position like you who you can trust. Then you could set up some kind of network or light version of a studio and approach companies as a group. Spread the workload and risk around, accept bigger contracts, share connections etc. But you have to be the right type of person for it and things still could go wrong, of course. You need someone to organize everything, be the contact person for the client etc, and the legal side is probably even more complicated. Friends or not, it's important to set up contracts for a situation like that, too.
Basically you'll pretty quickly have to act like a "real" outsourcing studio and chances are you are unprepared for it.
no.
but if i was after the money then i would have accepted one of many job offers that i received over the years that were senior/lead level roles. i just like doing the actual work rather than managing or leading other artists who do the work.
if you want big money, then forget about making art yourself. get into a lead/management role or even an executive role.
there are other better benefits to fulltime freelancing:
*no vacation limits
*variety of work/art style
*no mandatory crunch
*no layoffs
*no relocation with different jobs
*more artistic ownership
*less noisy/crowdy
however, if i wanted to make more money then i would go into crunch mode and take on more work if available (not recommended). there was a time when i did this often but it wasn't fun and now days i have gotten a bit lazy too :poly124:
however, the good thing is this is voluntary crunch with equal pay unlike a staff job where you are obligated to go through crunch periods without any overtime pay most of the time.
He's kinda at the 'high end' of freelance, who has been very active on various CG communities for a long time. He's placed highly in many contest, he's been featured on the top row of many sites, and has many shipped titles, and a long list of referrers.
No offense to the OP in any way, but you likely don't have anywhere near the credentials or experience that MM has.
even without extensive experience, i have seen lots of freelancers in this line and lot of them are not active in this community so we dont hear from them. there are more fulltime freelancers than you might think. it is becoming a more secure option now days with the corporate layoff trends.
also, if you read my first post in this thread i did mention how long i been in the industry and i also cautioned the original poster about junior artists thinking of going freelance.
if you are serious about doing this then you have to work hard every single contract. it isnt like a fulltime job where you can afford to get too lazy and complacent because either way you get the paycheck at the end of the month.
I mainly work off site for vfx companies - normally short projects, but high profile companies. Suits me fine and I could n't go back to working in a studio full time( I do still work in house occasionally though)
Just to mention prior to freelancing I worked in the games industry and without that I couldn't do what i am doing now.
you really need that studio experience before going in to it seriously
If you're just starting out you are much better off working at a company inhouse and getting more experience working as part of a team, it'll give you more of a leg up in terms of understanding the process and what potential clients will ask for.
Yes, but it will be less common. People hiring freelance tech artists usually have difficult problems that they want solving, rather than say, piles of generic environment assets they need farming out.
Just came to give a bit of my 2 cents here,
Maybe not the best to give anyone input, I've been freelancing for about 3 months now but still, here I am.
I think it will be very hard for an artist without much experience/a student to find much freelancing work right away. Of course if you are actively looking for work and still manage to get yourself some small contracts, that is great!
I think you really need to build up your experience in an actual studio, putting a lot of money on the side before attempting it.
I worked in the video game industry for about 3 years before taking the leap of faith, I would probably advise people to wait some more, depending on how much contact-visibility you actually have.
I was not really happy with my current studio job and so I started pilling up money, you need to be prepared to survive for fews months (or even a years, like MM point out) without any paycheck if contracts are hard to find.
Make yourself visible, go to events, meet people, be active in the community and help each other. There is way more chances people contact you instead of anyone else if they had positive contact with you before etc.
Like some said before, don't take on too many contracts at the same time, it will bite you in the ass later as you won't be able to deliver the quality you want for everything. Don't undersale yourself, of course you got to eat but know your value and selling your work away for peanuts will not help yourself or any other freelancer.
Keep your portfolio pieces rolling when you don't have any contract work.
I used to work in Quebec city were the salaries were not as high as some other places, so far I would say I'm pretty much making the same or even more money than in my studio position.
I've been quite lucky tho, I managed to secure my first year as a freelancer with a 1 year contract, those are golden and will make you feel safer for a little while, don't forget to keep on piling up money!
So far,
Pros of the freelancing
-Freedom! Manage your workload/ work hour yourself
-more ownership of your work
-Less long term ''robot task'' (downscaling, resizing texture, tweaking shader)
-Projects change (more) often
Cons :
-no real stability $$(except for long term contracts)
-You got to be organized and have a lot of self-discipline
-You got to manage the finance part of it (taxes etc)
-You need to take care of all communication with the client yourself (mo producer-finance or project manager team)
-You are pretty much working alone, all the time
Anyway I hope I haven't repeat so much of what has been said before aldready,
Once again I just started freelancing, you never know, might be sad and starving in a month but for now Yeeeeeee
I'm also working for minimum wage, it's really hard for newcomers to get client base of resonable size.
Thats what I'm aiming for but sadly all of the studios in my town are not interested, so its either move out or become far better that i'm now.
What I'm really afraid of in this is the time managment and speed of my work, and I don't know how to improve these aspects besides doing more practise work.