Asking Maxers to recommend Alt.
polycounter lvl 18
I seriously have had enough issues with this app that i am looking to switch, i never thought i would have to but omg it truly saddens me as this was my first love.
So it is time to part ways i want to hear from some previous maxers who made a switch, which did you go to and how long do you think it took to get that oh so lovely comfortable feeling.
And yea i played with the 2015 beta sure Shader FX is great an all but the bugs are just lingering and there is no way i can work like that.
I am thinking Maya but i totally hate that space bar crap... sry but i am a right clicker.
Time to spill and spread your love for your choice app.
So it is time to part ways i want to hear from some previous maxers who made a switch, which did you go to and how long do you think it took to get that oh so lovely comfortable feeling.
And yea i played with the 2015 beta sure Shader FX is great an all but the bugs are just lingering and there is no way i can work like that.
I am thinking Maya but i totally hate that space bar crap... sry but i am a right clicker.
Time to spill and spread your love for your choice app.
If anyone wants to know why i chose this, it was because of the pelt mapping and retarded rotation in the uv editor plus the scaling was fine but some how decided to just go full blown retard on me and i just flipped out. I also installed textools so... it still was bad, thanks for the plug though.
I know your listening Autodesk this is horrible already...
Replies
Use Maya's marking menus? It's like right clicking in Max but faster.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't have all these issues with Max. To be fair though, I usually do my unwrapping either with Textools or in a program like UV Layout.
I also used Modo for 3 years and loved it as well. Maya felt like a faster modeler because of the marking menus, but Modo's stability and some really powerful modeling tools make up and surpass that edge Maya had in speed for me. Also the UV tools in Modo are the best I've used. Modo is more keyboard hotkey heavy by default than what I use in Maya.
This, at least for modeling (Maya for animation).
The main negative for Modo is probably that Luxology ignored game artists almost completely. The last release really pissed off some of their fans in that field as a result. But hopefully with the recent changes in leadership (to The Foundry) some changes in direction will also happen.
Luxology I felt has listened to its user base very well, but you are right the game art side is lacking. I think the history of that company shows if there is large enough interest they will implement more game art friendly tools and more innovative tools. Also with the Modo + Valve stuff it looks like things are moving in the right direction with them getting their foot in the door more on game art.
If blender does not seem right then I would second modo as well, a bit lacking on the game art side but nothing that can't be fixed
As for Maya, it takes a while to feel at home in the application.
I was a long time 3dsMax users/developer and the first 4 months or so of Maya where not enjoyable at all.
I probably would have bailed if it wasn't for the fact I had to use it for work
After that, I started to feel more at home.
But after two years, I still do not use the marking menu thing.
It is just not for me.
I just right-click or go the the file menu.
(During modelling I rip of the mesh file menu so it floats to give me a 3dsMax-like modeling experience of the modify panel)
UV editor in Maya still feels awkward. Probably because I have not used it enough.
Shader editing goes really well though :poly136:
I am hearing modo a lot and i was going to boast it in the first post but i have to say i am surprised, i heard good things and it seems it was not just talk, hmmm.
cpt and nate, yea i never tried HeadusUV though yesterday i looked over a few plugs and they suggested i added headusUV to the pipe, i forget what it was that suggested it but it seemed to make uving just awesome.
Granted it was the uv's that had me flip out and damn it if i hanged out since 2009 for Autodesk to wake up i really did but god damn stop adding and start fixing you know how many people would come back it is ridiculous for them to not add the fixed into 2015, i am telling you Auto that is your last chance... to bring them back... you want the money fix 2015 with all the issues since 2009, you will get everyone and i mean EVERYONE back... if they paid $4g i mean come on i would be beyond pissed if i paid $4g and you guys didn't solidify it's functionality i love you guys since R4.2 but come on please for the love of god and Jehovah fix your breaks.. your killing the software and i love it so much you suck for not fixing it.. I am sorry it has to be said.
2015 is your last hope idc what anyone says, and i played with the beta again downloaded but f-it i am being real points to sig 100% i will not pay for broken shit...
I will look at Modo but don't you have to pay for HeadusUV ?
Edited:
for Mr.fantastic i will say thank you for creating shaderFX did you make a good amount off that?
A simple smile will do but thank you for coming to my thread and expressing your situation, i won't lie i have been on and off with Maya one for my cousin being so involved into it but had left 3D all together and i feel so bad about that and then again for a work related project having to do with an environment game mesh 1st time holy shit i was so lost thank god for video tuts.
Also how the f-uck come maya doesn't have a alternative config to adjust to max when maya is purchased from the same company or am i just missing it?
But seriously, has there been capabilities added to any new version of Max that wasn't already handled by plugins? When I have the free time I'm going to reinstall Max with Per's 3DS clean voodoo.
Additionally you have some great substance designer support which works directly inside of modo, theres also mesh fusion and some great community made scripts/plugins.
If you cant stand to lose the modifier stack workflow, then using Blender + 3d coat usually covers most of bases while retaining that modifier workflow.
Other than that I would also recommend modo.
Personally I've been putting more priority into improving at free form sculpting in stuff like ZBrush, tools like clipping brushes, panel loops, etc. rather than going back and forth between modeling apps and which is best to go with. The reason is that most of the time a studio is always going to be using ZBrush, and it removes the 'Am I learning the right tool - if I learn something less used in the industry, will it hinder me?' concerns.
As already mentioned I hear Modo is really good especially if working remotely/freelancing so it would be worth taking a look at!
1) Smoothing group support
2) Baking tools (add a cage, etc)
It would be an awesome solution for game artists. It still IS a great option but I find I have to combine it with other tools to get work done efficiently. I usually move my pieces into Max to finish off the smoothing and bake out final maps. It just never works 100% correctly in Modo for me.
EDIT: Don't read that as my bagging on Modo though. It does a LOT of stuff really well. The modeling tools are great, the topo tools are top notch, Mesh Fusion is like magic for designing props, the UV tools are solid (although I find myself using Headus UVLayout a lot anyway), etc.
haha Sorry I coudln't stop my self
That's why you don't put your old install disc through a shredder when you upgrade. My IT background has taught me that nothing good comes from upgrading your software, hold out until you absolutely have to upgrade
There are two things that are wrong:
1. No axis selction when exporting. So when I work in Z-up axis, it will be converted to Y-up axis on export.
2. FBX export automatically break edges if there is something wrong. I can't say option for memory right now, but in max you had to uncheck single box to prevent it. In any case it causes the vertex count on meshes to sky rocket when importing FBX mesh to UE4.
Other than that I love modo, but FBX export really suck. They got animations but haven't fixed and added basic options for exporting static geometry..
Have you file bugs or feature requests on the FBX features you need from Modo? The more vocal us game artists get, the more likely the Modo developers will address our needs. The squeaky wheel...
You know, this is kind of sad, I've heard a lot of Max bashing in this particular forum(which most of the time make absolutely no sense to actual Max users), but this line was kind of a new thing for me, let me get this straight, you've used a beta pre release of Max which has a lot of bugs, interesting, one question: have you actually used the latest stable release of Max(also known as Max 2014)?... because it's known as one of the most stable releases of Max in ever.
About the UV tools, I wonder, what version of Max are you using? have you even used the new Peel mode? I have a strong feeling that you are using a very old version of Max, the UV tools were completely redone in 2012, and they are actually done very well, actually Pelt mapping isn't the preferred method anymore!
You know, never mind, here just take a look at this video:
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I'm too lazy to manually place support loops. I haven't tried edge creasing in modo yet though.
1. The above-mentioned game-industry weak links in the armor. Maybe that will all get resolved in 801 whenever it drops, but should you consider Modo, you need to go in with your eyes open. Even though it costs less than Maya or Max, it's not cheap.
2. Most studios will still expect you to know Max or Maya and might not look too kindly on having to spring for another application that is essentially what they already have with their Autodesk applications. Maybe they'll let you use your own Modo license. Maybe they won't. Probably best not to be too dependent on a non-industry standard tool. That's been my experience. If it's freelance or personal work, then it's really not a big deal what you use.
I have focused mainly on making Blender my go-to supplemental application and I'm in love with it. It's seriously good at so many things, it's free and there likely will be no licensing kerfuffles with the company IT guys if you use it. Can't say enough good things about Blender.
Still, Modo does so many things right, I would never discourage anyone who really was curious from learning it. I have used it since 2008 and I think it's an incredible tool.
I actually get the impression on here that Max is pretty well liked, you should go take a peek at the "Softimage is being Discontinued Thread" every other post on there is calling for Maya to die a horrible and violent death.
P.S. It's 2014 and Max still have selection tools from 1999.
Sorry - but how can you ever judge the new version when you actually don't give it a change for some time ? Max 2014 IS actually a great release. Fast performing and stable. There where changes you have to get familiar with. IMHO much of this retro-glorifying Max 2009 is because people don't like change of their day-to-day tool and never tried to get accustomed to the new versions. Of course there are justified cases, but in general: Max 2014 would deserve more kudos than i see it getting in the community.
Of course this all Autodesk's fault , but give the package a chance...
You may have chosen the wrong profession.
Yes. I did it first time fbx export was added. And then few times.
And what seem to be easy fix, is still not in 0_o.
Maybe if more people report this, they would fix it.
Woah, I actually never knew this. I just looked at the documentation. RAD!
http://docs.luxology.com/modo/701/help/pages/modotoolbox/Tools/EdgeBevel.html
For example ... in Max what I love doing is doing an auto-smooth on a mesh (say, 60 degrees) and then throwing a Quad Chamfer modifier on, using the 'Smoothing Groups' option. It's a super fast way to get nice edges on a simple blockout mesh.
Modo has no way of mirroring that functionality because the smoothing is such a mess. :-/
1. Customizable & exportable tangent basis + an editable baking cage
2. Ptex
3. Open Subdiv (late birds will miss an industry standard - Maya is in good light right now)
4. Painting/sculpting/UV performance
5. Non-destructive UV stitching & rectifying - & a peeler that is able to handle everything that it should
6. Simpler snapping
7. Easier way of setting hotkeys (3D-Coat's way is good)
8. Bevel that merges overlapping geom - revived pipe tool that deploys straight geom
9. Viewport support for all maps that are used in games - properly displayed alpha maps
I should have specified, I meant quad chamfer by smoothing groups. I wrote a little tutorial here http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132383
Edge creasing might be a viable alternative, but I just think this method is a lot more efficient than manually placing support loops (though some manual tweaking is usually needed)
Maybe it is possible in modo, I'll have to look into it.
Although, I wonder how hard it would be for someone to write a script that selected all edges that are bordering differing smoothing groups. Hmm...
In that video he runs into the same scale issue i was having and says interesting...(I know 2012 though) probably a setting he click to lock the unwrapped object into the uv spacing and didn't allow it to be scaled outside the bounding uv box.
But yes I've been using an OLD method of unwrapping and i have 2009,2012,2014, and pre.
I'll be honest and say didn't know about peel mode because i usually keep what works for me (..I know change with the times-addressed below..i dislike that though if it works why change it?)
Though it does help as i can see in the video, even though the demonstrator didn't use the shortcut for the modifiers list if he would have clicked the little icon under the modifier arrow (c.m.s. config mod sets) he would have short "cutted"(i know not a word) to place the uv options to the top of the mod. stack selection instead of scrolling down as he did (no biggie).
I still would like options, yes as i said it was my first love and i hate to even bring this to light of any issues I've been having but i was just fed up on wasting time and felt i needed a backup plan (app) when i run into situations i really dislike with an application.
Perhaps it was me in my hastiness but i hate wasting time now-a-days.
So true, but again no one likes change at least i wouldn't think so, guess it depends on the person/situations.?.
2014 does seem stable but I've run into some odd normals and view-port issues i have no clue what happen but i fixed it by exporting to obj and re-importing though if i would have rigged this thing with that problem i would be, beyond bonkers over it.
As long as this thread remains on a positive track i am all ears on what people suggest me and others due about applications we use daily and if we should make a change or not.
Some change is good others are not and I've dealt with max since 4.2 and have stuck with finding work around's ever since so if i lasted that long i can remain a maxer as long as the issues get resolved eventually, overall it just sucks to have them fill it and fill it and fill it with new things and never address the crashes and issues that pop up.
If they don't listen to the community who use their application daily what is the point of making a new release..(i also don't post on there forums, too many user names and passwords, already.)
Granted i am sure they have it on the list of things to do and they get to some a little here and a little there but i just have been waiting and if your saying 2015 will be the reckoning then i can't wait to use it (I know 2015 is bug filled i meant everything below that number, i see i misspoke there.)
Thanks for the video i'll try to implement peel into my work flow in the future, I guess they keep old stuff in so that people can find what they like?
Cause if they are making changes why don't they just remove the old and keep the new? idk.
Thanks every body sry for the TL,DR post.