Wow I am impressed with the effects you did! I always wanted to learn how to make awesome particles like urs!
I have a small question, how do you make ur particles spawn at the place you want on a custom created weapon hold by heroes that have no existing particle on the wep like Axe/Sniper to be replaced/altered? Example you want ur blade of ur custom made weapon appearing electric or flames etc. Or glowing smoke on an orb on the weapon. I cannot possibly add attachments to it as it requires bones right?
Amazing work man! im looking for a way to put a particle emitter in a item that dont have one... Im searching for days and found few info about this...
Maybe you can enlighten us
Amazing work man! im looking for a way to put a particle emitter in a item that dont have one... Im searching for days and found few info about this...
Maybe you can enlighten us
Putting particles on an item without that integration already isn't too hard once you know how, but understanding the coding that goes into the .qc file for compiling may take a bit to get used to.
Hey man, can u make custom particles for my sword? And how many % u want?
No, sorry - I got a lot to do at the moment and I'll focus on more complex projects in the future as they are just more fun to work on . Good luck with that sword, though!
Putting particles on an item without that integration already isn't too hard once you know how, but understanding the coding that goes into the .qc file for compiling may take a bit to get used to.
That guide is spot on! archie, El Morco - that's exactly how particles on items work. Decompile the mdl, create an attachment, recompile the .mdl, then test it ingame.
Ty for the help i am learn a lot about this but still have problems. I put some custom particles in a blood seeker helmet, and work fine:
But now im working in a ward, and have some issues, it seems that the particle code in the .qc is making the model invisible... it compiles all ok... but I dont know what part in the .qc is wrong... maybe the materials? also having problems trying to make some glass for the eye container.
El Morco, I am not quite certain at all about this as I haven't tried it with ward, and I don't remember if using the workshop worked with this, but honestly I would go ahead and try to replace the original files.
like, I went over replacing the original file that appeared in the decompile folder after you decompiled, by making a copy of your item, renaming it to the exact filename of the one you're replacing (i have no idea what it would be for you, i'm guessing default_ward(_sentry), and then recompiling that into the wards file, while using -override_vpk in the launch options, as described here. at that point, just launch a custom game and choose your hero, then try it out.
another thing I noticed that might mean something but i would wait until you try the suggestion above, has to do with this:
I haven't dealt with multiple materials, and you seem to have done your research, and THEN I don't know if this even actually matters at all, but I think since you are using multiple material skins, you might actually need something in $cdmaterials as demonstrated here, as:
If your compiled model doesnt show up that might also mean that the client doesn't find the texture materials. As schnoodle said, make sure you specified the correct path in $cdmaterials and then check wether your .smds (or what other file format you use for the importer) were assigned the correct materials before exporting. The name of the material they have in your 3D-modelling software has to be exactly the one of your .vmt, so if your .vmt is called "Ward_Texture.vmt" the material of the .smd should be called "Ward_Texture".
Ty all, I make some advances now, but in the Workshop Tools, I load the model, put all the materials, and messing arround with the particles... the thing is how can you compile the model in Workshop Tools... if that is possible.
Ok, I haven't updated this thread for a long time, so here are two projects I completed in the meantime - both for DotaCinema's chest.
First, there's the Centaur Warrunner set. SUNSFan requested a custom ability effect to fit the new Double Edge animation - a headbutt. As I think Neteo did a really great job on the model I tried to accompany the helmet with a little glow on the horns so the effect doesn't feel disconnected with the theme of the set.
I was also working on the angel/demon courier for DotaCinema which didn't really hit the workshop as yet, mainly because of Valve now requiring the EIN/TIN of every contributer in order for the item to show up on the workshop. I'll add the links here once we got it to show up properly.
...and now for something completely different: Some of you might remember one of my first experiments with the particle editor, the Celestial Spark for Wisp. To be frank, it was fairly crappy in hindsight:
However as my obsession with Wisp is yet to fade I've spent a huge amount of time over the past 8 months to rework my old Celestial Spark for a new, updated release. As I'm pretty much done now (just doing some final tweaking) I'm ready to show some semi-final .gifs of the new version.
In advance: please excuse the crappy quality of these .gifs. My recording software is not exactly professional and tends to have a pretty unreliable framerate, often resulting in unrealistic speed.
First off, here's a short gif showing the new Wisp main body. The old version had significantly more sparks in the central sphere but I felt like that created a lot of visual clutter. Instead I settled for a less turbulent main appearance and gave Wisp three rotating orbs that circle his body randomly - a theme I picked up in a few of the abilities that follow. The gif resolution unfortunately doesn't show a large amount of even smaller stars which form the background in wisp's main body.
Here's how the orbs behave during movement.
As I thought the old death animation was too simple and too large, I created a smaller, more complex effect this time. Since I consider Wisp (with this item) to be basically "compressed night sky", he now explodes into fragments of the night sky upon death which then proceed to return to their celestial origin.
To close the thematic circle I created a very similar spawn effect. Io, the falling star.
The tether was one of the few old effects I still liked so I largely kept its old appearance, yet refined and reworked most parts of it. The tethered target also recieves those three rotating orbs Io's main body has.
The spirits probably recieved the most attention ( - creating this effect took me way more time than I want to admit). I wanted those spirits to pick up wisp's origin and hence also "fall" from the sky. To avoid gameplay impact I created a transparent position marker for the second it takes them to land. The transparency of the position marker is still a thing I'm considering to change - but then again you don't have a whole lot of time to react when a spirit spawns directly next to you either way.
Upon death the spirits "served their purpose" and return to the sky, each of them with a more or less individual path.
The overcharge was one of the effects I recreated completely. I still picked up the sun theme for the overcharge but this time with a more flaming effect (which also drastically reduced the particle count of the old overcharge).
Relocate is the second ability that is still up for tweaking, as the target location marker is not finished yet and the teleport effect might also recieve some more work. The origin marker is mostly done, though. Since a lot of people mentioned that the old relocate markers were too large, I created a smaller one that would still be visible enough to not affect gameplay.
Sooo in case you made it past this huge wall of text and .gifs - I'm always up for feedback or criticism!
I absolutely love this! Very well made.
I do have a few crits though:
-I feel the spirits should not return into the sky, mostly because it's really confusing in game, but also because they're supposed to explode.
- You could maybe make the spawn animation more of a falling star.
Currently it's just the reverse of death and looks kind of weird.
Very nice all around. The only thing I can criticize is the tether which could be slowed down to half speed maybe. Everything else is stellar (hah, stellar, get it ...)
I don't think the orbs flying off after exploding would read well in game, and i think you should put a Movement Lock to Control Point on the sprite trails of the ambient orbs. Looks weird when he's moving.
uuuuuuh nightsky wisp! that's so pretty! Really love the idea behind it.
But I agree with Vovosunt, the wisps flying back up is very confusing. for the spawn animation, I would work on it more, it looks too much like the death-implosion right now (especially with the nightsky-cloud quickly getting bigger and then smaller again). maybe just letting the "cloud" fly down and making the "collapse" slower could work?)
are you working on a custom attack animation as well?
love the particles, creative stuff indeed, btw im making a set for gondar (bounty hunter) but i cannot figure out how do i make his Weapon particles only activate when Jinada is ready for use, i ty in advance for reading this,
cheers.
- Quimera
Whooooaaaa that wisp looks brilliant! I really like how the particle effects are nicely themed and designed without being over the top. Particle effects as they should be imo.
@Vovosunt & Todestomate: I initially had a version in which wisp would fall from the sky similarly to the spirits but I then scrapped it in favour of the current version which has one big advantage: you can immediately identify Wisp's location. As the spawn effect is not really an animation (and was never really intended to exist in the first place) wisp can move freely during the effect, so if the spawning takes too long there might be a short moment after his respawn during which it would be hard for enemies to target him, given that his hitbox location is invisible. I tried to avoid that. You are right to critizise the similarity to the death effect, though - I'll rework some (or all) of it to make it a bit more different.
I don't really want to remove the spirits after the explosion since I feel like they add a fairly unique touch, though I see your point. I'll try turning them a bit more transparent close to the ground.
@Drew Carrymore: In a very early stage of this item I had the trails locked to the main body but removed the operator because it felt pretty stiff during the movement. It's been quite a long time since then, though - I'll try it again and maybe upload some .gifs for comparison.
@Quimera/zatanas0102: If I recall correctly Bounty Hunter's weapon particles are vertex-based? As I've never really worked with BH's particles I can only guess, but I'd say the best way is to edit the Jinada glow to fit the weapon effect you had in mind and just ignore vertex-based particles completely.
your work is gorgeous. beyond praise. since this change does not break the visual image of IO and vice versa reveals. I loved the death animation. like a small universe disappears into a black hole. the only thing I did not like it - very bright trace after relocate. but its imho) good luck with this project
It's this time of the year again? The Celestial Spark has once again hit the workshop. Thanks for all the kind words and feedback, guys - I really appreciate it! If you want a closer look at the final version check out the video below (no more crappy .gifs - yay!).
- slowing down the tether helix was a great idea by spudnik, it looks a lot more tranquil now
- the spawn animation recieved some minor tweaks but remained otherwise the same; I tried a few other variations but those always seemed to end up messy, confusing or affecting gameplay
- the spirit explosions still rocket back up in the sky, albeit they set out rather transparent and gain opacity on their path to the sky now;
- the relocate teleport effect recieved a complete rework
- attack warmup and projectile effects are now present
- Wisp's main body recieved quite an overhaul (including a small meteor flying through the sky)
Time for updates! I've been collaborating with Konras lately to create particles for a pretty amazing set for Dazzle he is working on at the moment. I really dig this project since Dazzle is one of my all-time favourite heroes and I've been waiting a long time for an opportunity to create particles for him. The theme of the set is a darker, slightly twisted version of Dazzle which I think will fit the character of the hero quite nicely (after all he is a shadow priest). Mind that the colours of the following effects are still not 100% synchronized between each other.
So let's get started: the first effect I created for the set is an ambient glow for the staff Konras has been modelling. It's still missing textures but it should suffice to give you a rough idea of its future look. As dazzle's lore states that he mastered the dualistic aspects of shadow and light to a point where these effects were inverted I thought I'd pick this aspect up in the staff glow: The effect in the center of the staff switches periodically between a dark and a light phase.
Working on Poison Touch is fairly tough since its colour scheme deviates from the other abilities pretty hard and with a display time of roughly 0.5 seconds (considering the extremely fast velocity of the projectile) there's not a lot of room for complex effects. After a lot of tinkering I settled for this effect as I consider it to offer a fairly good balance between unique visuals and simplicity.
I was fairly cautious with Shallow Grave at first as this effect can have a very high gameplay impact and changing too much of it might draw attention away from the ring that acts as a duration marker. Hence - in order to provide some room for customization - I changed the ring as well: as I felt it was fairly disconnected to the rest of the effect I applied some changes so it now acts as a "shield" (with a semi-transparent tube, I hope that idea gets across in the .gif).
A thing that always bugged me about Dazzle's third ability - Shadow Wave - was that it never really looked like an actual Shadow Wave. Well, I took a shot at that. I'm afraid the .gif doesn't properly show the effect due to its short duration and the low framerate but it should give you a faint idea of its general look:
Weave was the effect that probably took me the most time to create as yet. I always wondered why the effect for an ability called "Weave" wasn't actually woven, so I experimented a bit (or rather a lot) and what I ended up with is sort of a ying-yang-inspired portal to the Nothl realm:
And since the ingame effects once again suffers from the low framerate of my gifs here's another shot taken straight from the particle editor:
As always I'm open for feedback or suggestions so don't hesitate to let me know what you think about it!
That Weave effect is amazing looking. I want that Dazzle weapon so badly already.
Not sure if it is too jarring for the game, though. I know compared to the original Weave it certainly pops a ton more.
Poison Touch, Shadow Wave and Grave look boss, but the Weave effect feels overdone and too much to me. If possible, try lowering the contrast and the making it less opaque to reduce the visual impact on gameplay a bit but still retain your original design.
I think you are right on the Weave effect - I probably let myself get carried a bit too far away from the original design during the creation process. I think I'll try reducing the opacity of the background (as Spudnik suggested) and maybe the woven lines, as well as reducing the saturation a bit so the colours will be less... spikey?
@Soldeus, schnoodle & Saiainoshi: I'm not using the workshop tools particle editor as I find it pretty unintuitive (but maybe I'm just used to the old one =P), plus I think that editor creates .vpcf instead of .pcf files. I'm not using Alien Swarm either, though, as the particle editor included in the Source Filmmaker seems to be closer to the actual Dota 2 particle editor and hence offers a lot more options.
Time for updates again! The High-Priest of Dezun set for Dazzle I have been collaborating on with Konras has just hit the workshop. I thank you guys for the feedback and criticism! The hotlink and the gif below link to the collection and the particle submission respectively. As always, feel free to drop feedback or criticism below - it might come too late for this submission but it's always valuable to learn for future projects! Cheers!
Oh, and it comes with a really neat hand-drawn loading screen by Konras's better half. I personally dig the art style a lot, though (or rather because) it was experimental - it's a bit different from the rendered loading-screens that seem to be a dime a dozen at the moment :poly121:
This looks great! I especially like the staff, its simple but I think it needs some pink (I know its not your department).
The only thing about the particles that I don't like is how dark shadow wave got and that the ulti probably won't work with the sound file that plays with the default. The default has this enchance feel to this while yours feels somewhat arena trap (similar to bloodseeker's new ability). While the defualt has a flow feeling this one seems abrupt.
The dark colour of the Shadow Wave was intended to, well, make it a literal shadow wave - I never quite understood why Valve chose to turn an ability with that name into one of the brightest effects in the game.
The one part of your feedback I can not quite relate to (and which frankly shocked me a bit), though, is why you feel that the Weave effect I created is more abrupt than the default effect and lacks its "flow". In fact I felt (and still feel) the exact opposite as I created it to tackle the exactly this issue: While I think the default effect just gets projected instantaneously on the map with barely any visual development, the effect I created weaves its pattern. Could you please elaborate what exactly causes it to lack flow compared to the default one in your opinion? One tends to get a bit blind on the job so I'm genuinely curious if I missed something obvious :icon15:.
Oh, and please check the video for reference in case you didn't already do that, the .gif has - as always - a slightly distorted display speed.
Okay, as for the the shadow wave, I do understand what you mean about the shadow wave
The weave effect (default) kind of like a breathe, it activates abruptly and then it fades to nothing slowly, (Like summoning). You added dynamic rune markings to the spell which it starts to indicate "channeling/cast time" [Like how Elder Titains 1st spell gets stronger until the channeling is over. Or how Bloodseeker's 2nd ability has a delay in which the area affected recieves this insignia (Upon completion it finally deals damage).]
Default (Magic circle AOE (1), Light Ring (2), Dust [that might cause the +/- armor] (3) )
so when it is casted (2) and starts to wax then (1) appears then (3), then (1) fades, followed by (2) and then (3)
Yours kind of lingers
It establishes the AOE, then it has a rune build up then the AOE fades, and the runes' fade
Cast > Build up (Rune completion) > Effect > Fade
By making the runes complete/fade creates a delay or duration to the effect.
If you look at your video look at it in .25 speed on youtube, its easier to how different your spell
Maybe a way to fix it would be having the runes complete before it starts to fade, and after it reaches its peak effect, it fades with the runes.
Or the runes show up first (like how it is currently) then the aoe magic circle is shown, then the runes disappear all at once or in sections(Outer/Inner).
I'm not saying that particle is bad, I'm saying that it's used out of context. Sorry if its difficult to understand
Edit: I also should mention that I felt like something big wouldve happened after the runes disappeared. (Like Elder titan's ulti)
@GhostDetector True or not its worth noting that Weave is instant ability. Its not dodge able and its effect is shown instantly by negative or positive shields above player heads. As long as no one will mess up with blood seeker particles and make them purple for some kind of reason I am sure people will not get confused about it.
I can say even more that Dazzle ult should be longer as area of effect is active for full duration and people staying inside it are losing/gaining armor. So in my opinion phase/duration here is not a problem.
Dazzle's Weave is fact instantaneously (meaning that all effects spawn at the exact same time, the circle, the ring and the dust), there are no three phases like you listed. The effect "lingers" almost exactly as long as mine: My effect displays only 0.3 seconds longer than the default one (1.8 seconds until the last particle disappears as opposed to 1.5 seconds it takes for the default). I suppose what you meant is that the default effect starts flashy and the deteriorates while mine starts of fairly basic, builds up and then deteriorates -but as I said, that was the idea behind it. I wanted to achieve a more flowing effect which is just not possible with slapping a complex pattern on the ground.
More complex instantaneous AoEs will always suffer from a certain display delay as they have to build up first. That goes for the default Weave as well as for mine - both "peak" effects come too late for the actual buff since it's not possible for the effect to display before it was cast simply because the effect is supposed to work instantaneously (that would require Valve to hire an oracle =P). Most complex instantaneous effects display too slow: just think of Omniknight's heal which deals damage and heals even before the beam actually hits the target. Same goes for TA's Psionic Traps or CM's Frost Nova. Wether people see an issue in that or not is up to personal preferences - in the end it doesn't really matter since nobody can change that anyways.
One last note: I personally don't think the later "peak" of my effect is an issue as the AoE might be applied instantaneously but the buff persists. I think of it as a compleation of the spell as the first actual armour debuff is applied (1 sec into the buff).
@Konras
The Dazzle Ulti isn't dependent on how long the people stay within the AOE, its whoever is affected by the ability in that AOE. Any hero can travel across the map and still retain the buff or debuff.
@Automedic
As I said I'm not an FX guy, I looked at the particles and saw which ones "parts" emerged first. And yes, I was trying to get the point across that it starts flashy and then deteriorates (I just couldn't find the right words).
As for the build-up you wanted to achieve (Even though the FX still looks like a valid spell) , you couldve made the runes start off first, and then when the runes complete then have a blast of light into a quick fade. That way it'll show the buildup.
As for the ability lingering on after the initial effect, a visible particle buff that in which effects get stronger after time would be better. That would be new and actually easier to see but that'd take some more tinkering . (Like how Ogre Magi's buff makes the Hero bigger with some red particles).
I completely agree with you on the complete AOE delay not being able to sync with dmg/buff, but the reason why its there is because of cast time (balancing spells) If there weren't any cast times, everything would be instant. For example TA's psionic traps can be triggered manually without delays. And rubic can steal spells and cast them with no delay (fissure, earth splitter).
The peak of your effect wasn't really the issue for me, it was mainly how the runes faded.
Dazzle's Ulti is similar to Venomancer's Ulti. Once you get affect by that you will start feeling the after effects.
Well it doesn't matter 100% on whether you change it or not, it'll all depends on valve's view on how it'll interact with gameplay.
@GhostDetector Whaaaaaaaaa? This spell description is soo missleading :
"Applies a buff that increases the armor of allied heroes while decreasing the armor of enemy heroes in the target area over time. Upgradable by Aghanim's Scepter."
But yeah I just read on wiki that movement after spell was cast is not important. I thought I will not be surprised after so many hours in dota
My take on it is that I think it DOES flow very nicely, especially at first, but the "sharp" ending feels odd. I feel like a sort of 'disperse' would make the effect feel more, for lack of a better word, comfortable. The default effect kind of poofs, while your effect draws itself, with pinpoint accuracy, which creates a different feel to work with, definitely. The vanilla feeling is something that we kind of compare it to, I think people generally think it should have a similar feeling to it.
does that make any sense?
Like I feel it would benefit from a dispersal or poof/pop. Maybe like a fade-away while floating into the air, like a faster version of the lifesteal effect.
Meh, I suppose we should just leave it at that. I won't change it, given that most people who commented on it prior didn't consider this an issue (quite the opposite, they felt it was too extreme), everyone commenting on the submission now doesn't think so and neither do I
I do see your point but to be frank it's not really worth changing it. One has to find a balance between the attention the effect draws and its duration it can remain on the ground without affecting gameplay. Letting it disappear with a "poof" would a) draw more attention (which is bad, given that the effect is quite flashy already) and b) implies the effect would take place in the end (the peak issue). Letting it fade out smoothly over a longer period of time wouldn't work because it either a) would take significantly longer than the default Weave or b) wouldn't allow me to do the pattern build-up which is the core idea of this effect (Dazzle weaving the ability).
Replies
I have a small question, how do you make ur particles spawn at the place you want on a custom created weapon hold by heroes that have no existing particle on the wep like Axe/Sniper to be replaced/altered? Example you want ur blade of ur custom made weapon appearing electric or flames etc. Or glowing smoke on an orb on the weapon. I cannot possibly add attachments to it as it requires bones right?
Maybe you can enlighten us
Putting particles on an item without that integration already isn't too hard once you know how, but understanding the coding that goes into the .qc file for compiling may take a bit to get used to.
That said, check out this thread, where Drew Carrymore goes over exactly how to add particles to an item!
No, sorry - I got a lot to do at the moment and I'll focus on more complex projects in the future as they are just more fun to work on
That guide is spot on! archie, El Morco - that's exactly how particles on items work. Decompile the mdl, create an attachment, recompile the .mdl, then test it ingame.
But now im working in a ward, and have some issues, it seems that the particle code in the .qc is making the model invisible... it compiles all ok... but I dont know what part in the .qc is wrong... maybe the materials? also having problems trying to make some glass for the eye container.
Here is the ward without particles in the .qc:
Here is with the particles haha:
And here is the .qc in the ward:
$cd "F:\Workshopo\dedecompiled\wardsilloDD" $modelname "items/wards/wardsillo/wardsillo.mdl" $model "default" "wardsillo.smd" $lod 1 { replacemodel "wardsillo.smd" "lod1_wardsillo.smd" } $cdmaterials "" $texturegroup skinfamilies { { "models/items/wards/0x02442306/wardsillo/wardsillo.vmt" } { "models\items\wards\0x02442306\wardsillo\wardsillo_sentry.vmt" } } $hboxset "default" $hbox 0 "joint1" -8.269 -26.514 -28.701 114.496 27.414 27.069 $hbox 0 "joint2" -4.509 -27.727 -5.111 54.719 7.423 3.937 $hbox 0 "joint3" -3.314 -26.247 -16.213 64.234 14.060 15.187 $hbox 0 "joint4" -26.538 -19.138 -15.904 43.849 13.338 16.930 $hbox 0 "joint5" -15.904 0.000 -14.794 16.930 21.440 17.852 $attachment "attach_hitloc" "joint1" 0.00 0.00 0.00 rotate -0.00 -0.00 0.00 $attachment "attach_particle" "joint1" 0.00 0.00 0.00 rotate -0.00 -0.00 0.00 $keyvalues { particles { effect { name "crystalmaiden_ward_b" attachment_type follow_attachment attachment_point attach_particle } <further effects> } } $surfaceprop "default" $illumposition -13.057 -0.816 67.710 $sequence ref "ref" fps 30.00 $sequence ward_idle "ward_idle" loop ACT_DOTA_IDLE 1 fps 30.00 $sequence ward_spawn "ward_spawn" ACT_DOTA_SPAWN 1 fps 30.00 $sequence ward_death "ward_death" ACT_DOTA_DIE 1 fps 30.00 $sequence portrait_idle "portrait_idle" ACT_DOTA_CAPTURE 3 fps 30.00gaem is hard :poly122:
like, I went over replacing the original file that appeared in the decompile folder after you decompiled, by making a copy of your item, renaming it to the exact filename of the one you're replacing (i have no idea what it would be for you, i'm guessing default_ward(_sentry), and then recompiling that into the wards file, while using -override_vpk in the launch options, as described here. at that point, just launch a custom game and choose your hero, then try it out.
another thing I noticed that might mean something but i would wait until you try the suggestion above, has to do with this:
$cdmaterials "" $texturegroup skinfamilies { { "models/items/wards/0x02442306/wardsillo/wardsillo.vmt" } { "models\items\wards\0x02442306\wardsillo\wardsillo_sentry.vmt" } }I haven't dealt with multiple materials, and you seem to have done your research, and THEN I don't know if this even actually matters at all, but I think since you are using multiple material skins, you might actually need something in $cdmaterials as demonstrated here, as:$modelname mymodelfolder/mylamp.mdl [U][B]$cdmaterials modeltextures/mytexturefolder[/B][/U] $surfaceprop metal $staticprop $body studio "mylamp.smd" $texturegroup skinfamilies { { "lampon" } { "lampoff" } } $sequence idle "mylamp.smd" fps 1 $collisionmodel "mylamp_phys.smd"and also the backwards slashes in the sentry file code bother me a bit although i don't think that matters really
First, there's the Centaur Warrunner set. SUNSFan requested a custom ability effect to fit the new Double Edge animation - a headbutt. As I think Neteo did a really great job on the model I tried to accompany the helmet with a little glow on the horns so the effect doesn't feel disconnected with the theme of the set.
[ame="
I was also working on the angel/demon courier for DotaCinema which didn't really hit the workshop as yet, mainly because of Valve now requiring the EIN/TIN of every contributer in order for the item to show up on the workshop. I'll add the links here once we got it to show up properly.
[ame="
However as my obsession with Wisp is yet to fade I've spent a huge amount of time over the past 8 months to rework my old Celestial Spark for a new, updated release. As I'm pretty much done now (just doing some final tweaking) I'm ready to show some semi-final .gifs of the new version.
In advance: please excuse the crappy quality of these .gifs. My recording software is not exactly professional and tends to have a pretty unreliable framerate, often resulting in unrealistic speed.
First off, here's a short gif showing the new Wisp main body. The old version had significantly more sparks in the central sphere but I felt like that created a lot of visual clutter. Instead I settled for a less turbulent main appearance and gave Wisp three rotating orbs that circle his body randomly - a theme I picked up in a few of the abilities that follow. The gif resolution unfortunately doesn't show a large amount of even smaller stars which form the background in wisp's main body.
Here's how the orbs behave during movement.
As I thought the old death animation was too simple and too large, I created a smaller, more complex effect this time. Since I consider Wisp (with this item) to be basically "compressed night sky", he now explodes into fragments of the night sky upon death which then proceed to return to their celestial origin.
To close the thematic circle I created a very similar spawn effect. Io, the falling star.
The tether was one of the few old effects I still liked so I largely kept its old appearance, yet refined and reworked most parts of it. The tethered target also recieves those three rotating orbs Io's main body has.
The spirits probably recieved the most attention ( - creating this effect took me way more time than I want to admit). I wanted those spirits to pick up wisp's origin and hence also "fall" from the sky. To avoid gameplay impact I created a transparent position marker for the second it takes them to land. The transparency of the position marker is still a thing I'm considering to change - but then again you don't have a whole lot of time to react when a spirit spawns directly next to you either way.
Upon death the spirits "served their purpose" and return to the sky, each of them with a more or less individual path.
The overcharge was one of the effects I recreated completely. I still picked up the sun theme for the overcharge but this time with a more flaming effect (which also drastically reduced the particle count of the old overcharge).
Relocate is the second ability that is still up for tweaking, as the target location marker is not finished yet and the teleport effect might also recieve some more work. The origin marker is mostly done, though. Since a lot of people mentioned that the old relocate markers were too large, I created a smaller one that would still be visible enough to not affect gameplay.
Sooo in case you made it past this huge wall of text and .gifs - I'm always up for feedback or criticism!
I do have a few crits though:
-I feel the spirits should not return into the sky, mostly because it's really confusing in game, but also because they're supposed to explode.
- You could maybe make the spawn animation more of a falling star.
Currently it's just the reverse of death and looks kind of weird.
But I agree with Vovosunt, the wisps flying back up is very confusing. for the spawn animation, I would work on it more, it looks too much like the death-implosion right now (especially with the nightsky-cloud quickly getting bigger and then smaller again). maybe just letting the "cloud" fly down and making the "collapse" slower could work?)
are you working on a custom attack animation as well?
cheers.
- Quimera
Killer stuff Automedic, really.
@Vovosunt & Todestomate: I initially had a version in which wisp would fall from the sky similarly to the spirits but I then scrapped it in favour of the current version which has one big advantage: you can immediately identify Wisp's location. As the spawn effect is not really an animation (and was never really intended to exist in the first place) wisp can move freely during the effect, so if the spawning takes too long there might be a short moment after his respawn during which it would be hard for enemies to target him, given that his hitbox location is invisible. I tried to avoid that. You are right to critizise the similarity to the death effect, though - I'll rework some (or all) of it to make it a bit more different.
I don't really want to remove the spirits after the explosion since I feel like they add a fairly unique touch, though I see your point. I'll try turning them a bit more transparent close to the ground.
@Spudnik: Puntastic
@Drew Carrymore: In a very early stage of this item I had the trails locked to the main body but removed the operator because it felt pretty stiff during the movement. It's been quite a long time since then, though - I'll try it again and maybe upload some .gifs for comparison.
@Quimera/zatanas0102: If I recall correctly Bounty Hunter's weapon particles are vertex-based? As I've never really worked with BH's particles I can only guess, but I'd say the best way is to edit the Jinada glow to fit the weapon effect you had in mind and just ignore vertex-based particles completely.
[ame="
As for the changes:
- slowing down the tether helix was a great idea by spudnik, it looks a lot more tranquil now
- the spawn animation recieved some minor tweaks but remained otherwise the same; I tried a few other variations but those always seemed to end up messy, confusing or affecting gameplay
- the spirit explosions still rocket back up in the sky, albeit they set out rather transparent and gain opacity on their path to the sky now;
- the relocate teleport effect recieved a complete rework
- attack warmup and projectile effects are now present
- Wisp's main body recieved quite an overhaul (including a small meteor flying through the sky)
I hope you like it
So let's get started: the first effect I created for the set is an ambient glow for the staff Konras has been modelling. It's still missing textures but it should suffice to give you a rough idea of its future look. As dazzle's lore states that he mastered the dualistic aspects of shadow and light to a point where these effects were inverted I thought I'd pick this aspect up in the staff glow: The effect in the center of the staff switches periodically between a dark and a light phase.
Working on Poison Touch is fairly tough since its colour scheme deviates from the other abilities pretty hard and with a display time of roughly 0.5 seconds (considering the extremely fast velocity of the projectile) there's not a lot of room for complex effects. After a lot of tinkering I settled for this effect as I consider it to offer a fairly good balance between unique visuals and simplicity.
I was fairly cautious with Shallow Grave at first as this effect can have a very high gameplay impact and changing too much of it might draw attention away from the ring that acts as a duration marker. Hence - in order to provide some room for customization - I changed the ring as well: as I felt it was fairly disconnected to the rest of the effect I applied some changes so it now acts as a "shield" (with a semi-transparent tube, I hope that idea gets across in the .gif).
A thing that always bugged me about Dazzle's third ability - Shadow Wave - was that it never really looked like an actual Shadow Wave. Well, I took a shot at that. I'm afraid the .gif doesn't properly show the effect due to its short duration and the low framerate but it should give you a faint idea of its general look:
Weave was the effect that probably took me the most time to create as yet. I always wondered why the effect for an ability called "Weave" wasn't actually woven, so I experimented a bit (or rather a lot) and what I ended up with is sort of a ying-yang-inspired portal to the Nothl realm:
And since the ingame effects once again suffers from the low framerate of my gifs here's another shot taken straight from the particle editor:
As always I'm open for feedback or suggestions so don't hesitate to let me know what you think about it!
Not sure if it is too jarring for the game, though. I know compared to the original Weave it certainly pops a ton more.
I think you are right on the Weave effect - I probably let myself get carried a bit too far away from the original design during the creation process. I think I'll try reducing the opacity of the background (as Spudnik suggested) and maybe the woven lines, as well as reducing the saturation a bit so the colours will be less... spikey?
Thanks for your feedback, guys!
On a side note, what tools are you using for this? Is it all in an editor for DOTA or are the assets made in an external tool and exported in?
[ame="
Oh, and it comes with a really neat hand-drawn loading screen by Konras's better half. I personally dig the art style a lot, though (or rather because) it was experimental - it's a bit different from the rendered loading-screens that seem to be a dime a dozen at the moment :poly121:
The only thing about the particles that I don't like is how dark shadow wave got and that the ulti probably won't work with the sound file that plays with the default. The default has this enchance feel to this while yours feels somewhat arena trap (similar to bloodseeker's new ability). While the defualt has a flow feeling this one seems abrupt.
The dark colour of the Shadow Wave was intended to, well, make it a literal shadow wave - I never quite understood why Valve chose to turn an ability with that name into one of the brightest effects in the game.
The one part of your feedback I can not quite relate to (and which frankly shocked me a bit), though, is why you feel that the Weave effect I created is more abrupt than the default effect and lacks its "flow". In fact I felt (and still feel) the exact opposite as I created it to tackle the exactly this issue: While I think the default effect just gets projected instantaneously on the map with barely any visual development, the effect I created weaves its pattern. Could you please elaborate what exactly causes it to lack flow compared to the default one in your opinion? One tends to get a bit blind on the job so I'm genuinely curious if I missed something obvious :icon15:.
Oh, and please check the video for reference in case you didn't already do that, the .gif has - as always - a slightly distorted display speed.
The weave effect (default) kind of like a breathe, it activates abruptly and then it fades to nothing slowly, (Like summoning). You added dynamic rune markings to the spell which it starts to indicate "channeling/cast time" [Like how Elder Titains 1st spell gets stronger until the channeling is over. Or how Bloodseeker's 2nd ability has a delay in which the area affected recieves this insignia (Upon completion it finally deals damage).]
Default (Magic circle AOE (1), Light Ring (2), Dust [that might cause the +/- armor] (3) )
so when it is casted (2) and starts to wax then (1) appears then (3), then (1) fades, followed by (2) and then (3)
Yours kind of lingers
It establishes the AOE, then it has a rune build up then the AOE fades, and the runes' fade
Cast > Build up (Rune completion) > Effect > Fade
By making the runes complete/fade creates a delay or duration to the effect.
If you look at your video look at it in .25 speed on youtube, its easier to how different your spell
Maybe a way to fix it would be having the runes complete before it starts to fade, and after it reaches its peak effect, it fades with the runes.
Or the runes show up first (like how it is currently) then the aoe magic circle is shown, then the runes disappear all at once or in sections(Outer/Inner).
I'm not saying that particle is bad, I'm saying that it's used out of context. Sorry if its difficult to understand
Edit: I also should mention that I felt like something big wouldve happened after the runes disappeared. (Like Elder titan's ulti)
I can say even more that Dazzle ult should be longer as area of effect is active for full duration and people staying inside it are losing/gaining armor. So in my opinion phase/duration here is not a problem.
Dazzle's Weave is fact instantaneously (meaning that all effects spawn at the exact same time, the circle, the ring and the dust), there are no three phases like you listed. The effect "lingers" almost exactly as long as mine: My effect displays only 0.3 seconds longer than the default one (1.8 seconds until the last particle disappears as opposed to 1.5 seconds it takes for the default). I suppose what you meant is that the default effect starts flashy and the deteriorates while mine starts of fairly basic, builds up and then deteriorates -but as I said, that was the idea behind it. I wanted to achieve a more flowing effect which is just not possible with slapping a complex pattern on the ground.
More complex instantaneous AoEs will always suffer from a certain display delay as they have to build up first. That goes for the default Weave as well as for mine - both "peak" effects come too late for the actual buff since it's not possible for the effect to display before it was cast simply because the effect is supposed to work instantaneously (that would require Valve to hire an oracle =P). Most complex instantaneous effects display too slow: just think of Omniknight's heal which deals damage and heals even before the beam actually hits the target. Same goes for TA's Psionic Traps or CM's Frost Nova. Wether people see an issue in that or not is up to personal preferences - in the end it doesn't really matter since nobody can change that anyways.
One last note: I personally don't think the later "peak" of my effect is an issue as the AoE might be applied instantaneously but the buff persists. I think of it as a compleation of the spell as the first actual armour debuff is applied (1 sec into the buff).
The Dazzle Ulti isn't dependent on how long the people stay within the AOE, its whoever is affected by the ability in that AOE. Any hero can travel across the map and still retain the buff or debuff.
@Automedic
As I said I'm not an FX guy, I looked at the particles and saw which ones "parts" emerged first. And yes, I was trying to get the point across that it starts flashy and then deteriorates (I just couldn't find the right words).
As for the build-up you wanted to achieve (Even though the FX still looks like a valid spell) , you couldve made the runes start off first, and then when the runes complete then have a blast of light into a quick fade. That way it'll show the buildup.
As for the ability lingering on after the initial effect, a visible particle buff that in which effects get stronger after time would be better. That would be new and actually easier to see but that'd take some more tinkering
I completely agree with you on the complete AOE delay not being able to sync with dmg/buff, but the reason why its there is because of cast time (balancing spells) If there weren't any cast times, everything would be instant. For example TA's psionic traps can be triggered manually without delays. And rubic can steal spells and cast them with no delay (fissure, earth splitter).
The peak of your effect wasn't really the issue for me, it was mainly how the runes faded.
Dazzle's Ulti is similar to Venomancer's Ulti. Once you get affect by that you will start feeling the after effects.
Well it doesn't matter 100% on whether you change it or not, it'll all depends on valve's view on how it'll interact with gameplay.
"Applies a buff that increases the armor of allied heroes while decreasing the armor of enemy heroes in the target area over time. Upgradable by Aghanim's Scepter."
But yeah I just read on wiki that movement after spell was cast is not important. I thought I will not be surprised after so many hours in dota
My take on it is that I think it DOES flow very nicely, especially at first, but the "sharp" ending feels odd. I feel like a sort of 'disperse' would make the effect feel more, for lack of a better word, comfortable. The default effect kind of poofs, while your effect draws itself, with pinpoint accuracy, which creates a different feel to work with, definitely. The vanilla feeling is something that we kind of compare it to, I think people generally think it should have a similar feeling to it.
does that make any sense?
Like I feel it would benefit from a dispersal or poof/pop. Maybe like a fade-away while floating into the air, like a faster version of the lifesteal effect.
I do see your point but to be frank it's not really worth changing it. One has to find a balance between the attention the effect draws and its duration it can remain on the ground without affecting gameplay. Letting it disappear with a "poof" would a) draw more attention (which is bad, given that the effect is quite flashy already) and b) implies the effect would take place in the end (the peak issue). Letting it fade out smoothly over a longer period of time wouldn't work because it either a) would take significantly longer than the default Weave or b) wouldn't allow me to do the pattern build-up which is the core idea of this effect (Dazzle weaving the ability).