AR-15_High_Poly

Jetta89

Hey guys, I started working on my first weapon, an AR-15. I have been working on the picatinny rail. Its the high poly is not 100% done but I am looking for some input on what I should fix and what is good and what should be added. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
[IMG]http://www.polycount.com/forum/<a href=http://s1253.photobucket.com/user/jetta8911/media/1_zps98adf658.jpg.html target=_blank>[/img]

Jetta89

Sorry pictures didnt up load. Here they are.

C86G

Correct me if I´m wrong, but all of the edges might be a bith too sharp, especially the picatinny parts.

Jetta89

C86G-the edges on real rails are pretty sharp. Not knife shark but the edges is very tight. Thats something thats playing with my mind.
Should they still be soft even though in real life talot of objects have pretty sharp edges?

fearian

Jetta89 wrote: »

Should they still be soft even though in real life talot of objects have pretty sharp edges?

Short answer: Yes! Long answer: Mostly yes, It depends on your texture size, your bakes and how you are rendering it.

Basically you want to have a transition between surfaces in your normal map yes? A slight bevel, even if it's very small. However the size of that bevel is limeted by the amount of pixels it takes up on your normal map. If its only 1px wide, then there's essentially no transition. Also think about how this object will read from a distance. If it's viewed in a players hands you will see lot of detail, but still not as much as in a portfolio render. Alot of people will make exaggerated edges to have the guns 'highpoly' shape read well from a third person view.

Just think about how much of your high poly is going to make it onto the texture!

C86G

Well, your high poly is meant to get baked down to a normal map for a low poly mesh, right? If so, you really want to soften the edges even if they are way sharper in reality.

Usually somebody posts a nice image showing how edge sharpness results with growing distance. I don´t have the image right now, but people here are great and will post it and say something to it : )

Jetta89

So what you guys are saying is that for the normal, the edges need to be more soft then in reality in order to get the depth in the normal. If its to sharp then it will feel flat. Right?

Jetta89

But if the edge is soft and you have to put the low poly edge on top, wouldnt there be to much spacing between the soft edge of the high and the hard literally sharp edge of the low?

Nosslak

Jetta89 wrote: »

So what you guys are saying is that for the normal, the edges need to be more soft then in reality in order to get the depth in the normal. If its to sharp then it will feel flat. Right?

Yeah, exactly! The bevels you have would in a best case scenario take up 1 or 2 pixels on the normalmap and look aliased from a distance. There will be some more disparity between the lowpoly and highpoly but it should work fine anyway.

Jetta89

I softened the edges just alittle. Please let me know if you guys think this is good enough so i can do the rest of it this soft.

C86G

Create a small part of the low poly and test it yourself : )
You got one little smoothing error on the front part, but it looks way better than before.

Nosslak

Jetta89

Nosslak- Thanks alot for the sample pic. It explains alot. Now i understand.

Jetta89

Guys, this corner is giving me a problem that i cant figure out. PLEASE HELP.
Cheers.

commador

Looks like you just need to add an edge on the vertical faces like you have on the horizontal side.

Stirls

Not sure if this is right, but have you tried adding another loop/bevel along this line, here?

Jetta89

Stirls-the loop behind the one you drew is the supporting loop. If I put another one it will be to sharp.

Mr. Brightside

You need something like this;


You have 3 edges going down the middle there which you do not need at all, you have a triangle on the left and a quad on the right, match them up dude! Keep quads not tris.

This is something you need;

Jetta89

Mr. Brightside- I will do exactly that.

Jetta89

Thank you guys. Here is the update. I think it looks much better.

Shrike

Do not make the mistake and work ultra zoomed in all the time. Dont forget the real size of your object and how it is viewed. It is very obvious that you work up close and match it for that "size"
For p.rails, you may even have the edges on the front of the gun wider in a linear fashion, than the back ones, to counter perspective a bit
Weapon cameras use a FOV from 60-45, thats a pretty hefty perspective

If you would go for offline rendering, movie CG you could do the sharp edges thing, but in games you need the soft ones, aliasing is a enemy, and shiny edges really sell your material. With powerful offline lighting, sharp edges can look very convincing, but we are not there yet

Jetta89

Hey guys, a small update on my rifle. I am trying to base it off my personal rifle. I reworked the quad rail, added some more holes, also added a few more rails on the picatinny. I also made the delta ring for a free floating rail system. Please let me know what you guys think and please let me know of something i missed and i could fix.
I know this may take alot of you less then a day to build the whole thing but its my first weapon and I want to make it perfect from the beginning. Dosent matter to how long it takes, its a personal project.
Cheers.

MultiCamil

I'm modelling AR based carbine in some other thread too and hey, it's going really well round holes in curved areas have always given me a headache and I will have to get through that stage soon. Good job and I am going to watch this thread regularly, to see your progress.

The only thing I noticed that bothers me is the 'teeth' of the railing are too close to each other. Spaces between them are too small. I'm not really sure if any sort of attachment screw would fit between them. In the previous pictures they seemed to be right. Also, I have a feeling that the whole part is too thick but I may be wrong on that one.

Jetta89

MultiCamil wrote: »

I'm modelling AR based carbine in some other thread too and hey, it's going really well round holes in curved areas have always given me a headache and I will have to get through that stage soon. Good job and I am going to watch this thread regularly, to see your progress.

The only thing I noticed that bothers me is the 'teeth' of the railing are too close to each other. Spaces between them are too small. I'm not really sure if any sort of attachment screw would fit between them. In the previous pictures they seemed to be right. Also, I have a feeling that the whole part is too thick but I may be wrong on that one.

thanks alot. Yea the holes on a curved surface annoyed me too. I'm basing the AR off the one I own. I counted the number of rails and it has I think 18, and the spacing was really tight. That's what she said. I did the first models from memory but then I grabbed mine and actually looked at it and counted.

Jetta89

Hey Guys, I am really stuck here on the upper receiver. The typology is just messing with my head. Please help me out here. I am trying to clean it up and to get it to be clean for the turbo smooth but its just not working and I can not seem to figure it out. I am more then willing to send my file (you are more then welcome to keep it for yourself) to anyone who would be awesome enough to take a look at it and clean it up. Send me an email Grom15@outlook.com
Cheers,

MultiCamil

You don't have to keep all the loops clean. You can remove some edges and leave some ngons on flat areas, where smooth edges won't be affected. You only use it for highpoly baking right? It won't cause any troubles on the normal map or so, if you do it right.

Jetta89

MultiCamil wrote: »

You don't have to keep all the loops clean. You can remove some edges and leave some ngons on flat areas, where smooth edges won't be affected. You only use it for highpoly baking right? It won't cause any troubles on the normal map or so, if you do it right.

Thank alot MultiCamil. I will deff keep this in mind. I am taking a break from the receiver and working on some smaller parts for now.

Jetta89

Lads,
I am working on the gas block and I am having a smoothing issue. Its alittle hard to tell but its on the supporting verts of the circle. Any help is appreciated. Cheers.

maxivz

I think the edges on the circles are still too sharp, you have to make them fatter than they are in normal life so they translate well to a normal map

Gazu

Actually i have the same Problem with my M15. I think the right side of this weapon is not easy to model. Im stucking at the same part as you, but i have leave it for now and modelled in the sight. Then i will make the part under this part:


But MultiCamil said it: You can leave ngons on flat surfaces or connect them to a triangle.
Maybe this will help you out. But with ngons stay away from curved geometry.

MultiCamil

@Gazu: Remember to keep the edges smoother than they really are, if you want to bake the normalmap.



I realize that image appeared on this forum like zyllion times, but it's still usefull

Pedro Amorim

also. don't get caught up on those small areas that no one will see. the gas block will be covered with the handguard. so dont worry aabout it

EarthQuake

Pedro Amorim wrote: »

also. don't get caught up on those small areas that no one will see. the gas block will be covered with the handguard. so dont worry aabout it

Yep, don't model in little holes and shit that will just be covered by other parts. It will never be seen and it will give you problems when baking. Concentrate on the outer shell of what will actually be seen, not creating a CAD-level model of all the internals.

Gazu

Hehe, thanks for your comments, they are very helpful! :thumbup:
I will soften up the Edges at the end of the HP modeling process.
For now, im happy to get a nice result :poly136:

Some People told me to model all, not only the visible parts because of the third person version of the weapon.

Actually i dont know what will take more time, a new LowPoly for the 3rdPerson Version of the Weapon or a big collapse from the FirstPerson Version to a 3rdPeron Version.

Im scared about baking this Weapon, so for now i have only the HP in mind.
Would like to have a professional by my side, which showing me the complete baking process of my m15 included the correction of my failures on the LP and HP

But Back2Topic!
I dont want to steal the threadstarters thread!

THANKS!

Jetta89

Thanks for the idea guys. The gas block on the rifle I'm putting together is based of my personal one. With a 7" CAR quad rail, and a 10" barrel with a suppressor, without a front iron sight as the gas block, the gas block is just in front of the rail and right behind the suppressor will be seen so to get the depth of the whole is necessary but the smoothing issue isn't as big as I am making it out to be.

Gazu- please dude ask all you want and all please say what you want. I guarantee someone will say something I need lol.

Cheers

commador

You have an SBR with a can? Ha, kickass. I've just got a piston 16". Anyway, for the gas block, I would just add more edges to round out the shape, and add an additonal loop so those two poles closest to the front aren't being "pulled".

Jetta89

Gents, It has been awhile since I have worked on this piece, getting back into the modeling mood. I am having geometry problems with the butt stock. Please look and comment and any advise is always appreciated. Its not done of course, I am missing the friction lock and the slide lock lever.
Cheers,