The is another way in max. If you planar map your model and put a gradient map in the diffuse. You can use render to texture and bake out the diffuse to your model. Nice part about that is you can control as many points and colors to the gradient as you want.
@ TAN - I really would recommend not using that workflow. It may save time, but it is a huge loss in quality. Being able to change the forms as you go is a huge part of learning to sculpt. If you can't change it than you are stuck with any mistakes you make at the early stages. Also if you have to fix anything major it is a huge time sink. If you want to get better I would ditch your current process all together. You want to get quality first not speed.
Okay, I am falling way behind but I got a little work done. Low poly of the head with textures. The beard is a huge wip, still trying to figure out how to do it properly. I think thinner hair and more cards in less orderly manner will help.
I will make a second post for critiques!
Ok, here's some critiques. Sorry if I didn't get to everyone.
Ravenok: Looking pretty good so far. looking forward to more progress.
Anthony44: Not sure if its the angle but his face is really scary, and big.
his waist is a tad small considering there's several layers of cloth and armor
on it.
Rafferty: Looking pretty nice man. Maybe add a bit more fullness to the hair?
Also that pommel on that sword is huge!
Pav3d: I really like how its turning out. The bear is looking pretty good so far
Tierzilla: I feel you on the alpha cards. Keep experimenting!
JohnnyRaptor: I like the cloth definition on his shoulders. The face has a lot of character.
DarthBartas: Nice start. Looking forward to some updates.
Tan: I need to see it from the other angles but the face looks like it is too
flat in certain spots like the forhead and their is something weird going on around your eye.
CapableWizard: I like what you got so far. A lot of character in that face
Steveston: Looking really nice man. No complaints other than i feel like
the cheeks are doing something weird. Looks like an indentation of some sort.
Kapoff: The cloth looks great. I think the metal parts look a little too soft
and lumpy.
@ Dimfist - The important thing to remember about card hair is it takes a really long time to do. Really high quality hair takes a month or two to make. It is a slow process... After starting on the beard I realized they are even harder than regular hair because of the amount of layering and variation. My recommendation is breakdown the hair into different layers. One card spread around a whole bunch of times is not going to get you a beard.
@ Kapoff - good start on the texturing. The metal is looking very plastic. Also the pants and boots are looking too sharp.
Small bit of progress. Beard is really slowing me down... Hope to have his head done by the end of the month and the rest later.
Ok, so decided to try to change my approach in terms of materials and do things way more PBR oriented instead.
The metalness instead of the spec, albedo with a lesser AO impact and a gloss map that does a way greater job than before. Bit so far... it's a true PAIN IN THE A@!# So yeah... That...
Here is another article/ tutorial to give you an understanding of PBR. It is really not complicated. Basically:
Albedo = Flat color/ color changes. (if using metalness this is where you define specular inensity and color.)
Reflectance = Flat values of material reflective. ( Very similar to spec).
Metalness = Black and white metal mask.
Glossiness/ Roughness = How rough your surface is this should be the most detailed map you make.
Other things to note. Metal should always be black in albedo, unless you are using the metalness workflow. This is because in using the metalness workflow the metalness map automaticly make the albedo black and then uses the albedo to determine reflectance/ spec. The should be no AO/ Cavity in any of your maps. There are built in slots for this in PBR engines you should let those control it.
Yeah It was globally clear before but the metalness map and the spec map started to confuse me. I guess that you still need a Reflectance map (just a new fancy name for the spec due to the fact that the specular light isn't just a value but a full range of reflective information of the environment) even if you use a metalness map?
Problem is that for instance in Toolbag 2 you have to chose between a spec and a metalness map. And as far a simple chest plate goes, the thing looks OK. But when I work with my metalness map for objects both metallic and dielectric the dielectrics go apeshit and are cruelly ugly. You have absolutely no control as far as the reflectance value goes in a metalness map, you just choose is the object is metallic or not. And that, for dielectrics is not suitable.
So what, the metalness map is just there for objects composed mainly of metal or is there a thing that I don't get?
Small update. Tweaked the body materials and painted, baked and started working on the head. next step, the hair planes and the underlying hair layer... Boy that will be a challenge.
Kapoff: Looking good man, armour is looking nice and battered
Quick question, has anyone modelled the breastplate using sub division methods? I'm having a bit of trouble with the raised lines I;ve spent all weekend battling with it and came up with this:
It works ok, but I'd love to see if anyone else has had a shot. It would probably be a lot easier to do in Zbrush but I don't want to give in, I'd rather do it using subdiv even if it's more of a challenge
It works ok, but I'd love to see if anyone else has had a shot. It would probably be a lot easier to do in Zbrush but I don't want to give in, I'd rather do it using subdiv even if it's more of a challenge
You're a nutcase That looks great, good effort man!
@ CapableWizard - I modeled a sub-d base mesh. I tried to model in some of those details, but it just wasn't clean. I found it much cleaner and faster to get those things out of Zbrush. That said your attempt looks good, though you might have some topology issues going into zbrush ( pinches and such).
@stevston89 Really like your face, what are you rendering that out in? As someone who struggles with faces I really like how you capture the nose and mouth in particular.
@capablewizard I have always found subd more hassle than its worth My experience of them is pretty limited though. Your cloth work is fantastic btw
Here is my update, it's been awhile so I have fallen a little behind.
My skin and eyes result. Not sure if I will introduce some hair planes in the eyebrows.
EDIT: Started to work on the hair planes.
Tested a few different setups. Tried the thinner with less coverage method but without success sadly. Threw some planes with the Object Paint option in Max and experimented with different amounts oh hair on each plane and so far this is the best result I got. Any piece of advise would be welcome guys. I'm currently getting that result with 83 instances of 4 different planes for a total of 390 tris so i think I can go way beyond that. The question would be how to do it in order to make it look as badass as Joel's beard.
@ Kapoff - That look pretty good beard wise. It would certainly be good enough to hold up from 3rd person. I would say you need some more geometry and variation. Some smaller hairs and smoother transition to the face. The thing about something like joel's beard is it was most likely reworked and optimized several times. It probably took a month or two to get right. They probably hand placed each card to get the best look. The thing I have found is that any speedy/ automated way of doing hair is always just a start. You need to going in by hand and fix up stuff for the best result.
Since some people have been asking me about skin and some of you seem to be struggling a bit I will do a breakdown of my skin at the end of the challenge. First pass pretty much done on the beard. Gonna do another set of cards now with smaller hairs and transition hair. Also gotta paint the hair and get the normals sorted... Lots to do little time... Will most likely have to finish off the rest of the character later. Anyways here is a screen:
Nice beard Kapoff, the orbits of the eyes could do with some colour variation, or it might just be thats hes lacking eyelashes, it always throws me off :P
Could I see your beard textures? theyre looking pretty good atm. Also what are you rendering them in?
Oh man, nice beard you two got there. I have so much to catch up now.
I was working days and nights on the art test, and when it's almost done, I found out the deadline is like a month away from now #_# So yeah, I'm coming back to this +.+
It probably took a month or two to get right. They probably hand placed each card to get the best look.
Yeah I guess good looks requiering a good amount of work makes sence. But I will probably try to smooth out my card a little bit and add some density variation ones as you said it. Looking forwark for the breakdown of the skin at the end of the month dude, I always enjoy peeking at other people workflow, there's always something to learn from someones way to work. Eager to see the post.
Nice beard Kapoff, the orbits of the eyes could do with some colour variation, or it might just be thats hes lacking eyelashes
Here are the textures, it's a crop from the big head texture sheet. And I'm running it in in Toolbag 2 atm. Will maybe test in Cryengine but it would be in march already.
@Alemja - Good start. Careful of the feet they bow in a bit too much right now.
Thanks for the crit, I have such a hard time with feet. Sorry for not replying back sooner.
Hey ladies and gents I'm hosting a hangout for anybody who wants to join, I'll be working on my character for this challenge and maybe something else, but feel free to work on whatever.
So, I haven't really been here much, but I wanted to say that you guys are doing awesome. Some quick notes.
stevston89 - I think the beard could use some different colors in it. Some variation in the hair color could really push it as right now it just seems like a block. Look at some of the character art from "The Last of Us"
Kapoff - Materials on the body look pretty good. I think you need to push the color temperature zones on the face though. Right now it feels like it is one color and makes him look waxy/dead.
@ praetus - Yeah. I haven't painted the texture yet. It's still a solid color until I finish laying out all of the cards I want. It's really just blocking out with alpha as a first pass.
Hey guys , been a long time. been testing some of the beard and stuff so.. here is what i have , its all the same card and texture space.. im gonna make diferents cards and a little more variation in the uvs , thanks a lot for the tips and links!
here is the preview.
The highpoly is almost done. I realize I could have defined some of the materials better but I've learned a lot I am late enough as it is. Tomorrow I will try to detail the face and hopefully start working on the lowpoly.
I fear I have nothing to contribute as I have zero experience with anything other than sculpting, but it's very pleasing to see everyone progress and improve.
Not sure if I plan on keeping the fibermesh beard or not, first time using it. demon5026 I think you need to watch the feet and the fingertips, they both seem rather bulbous. You do have a lot of nice details in your mesh though.
Well almost, i might come back at it and tweak the textures and maybe a few planes but I'm kind of satisfied with the result here so I move on... to bed.
Also, I derped a little bit in marmo' to render a pertier image.
920tris so far.
PS: Was My first Google hangout this night and I was surprised how well this thing is designed, it actually works pretty well. Might even do it again!
PPS: I made a post but pobably forgot to post this last time. Pav3d you asked for the texture sheets for the hair. And as I already said it above, I render in Marmoset Toolbag 2 atm but I might wanna try it out in Cry' but it would probably be in march already.
But Kapoff, you didn't share your screen as you work at all :P
Added:
So here's what I was doing during the g+hangout. I started out on lowpoly topology. So I could join the fun of making beards. Well, I was, until I decided to test the texture map so far[Normal, and AO maps]. Nasty seam down the body " Grrrrrr. And I don't know how to fix it. Sometimes I get the seams, and sometimes I don't. I don't know what I am doing right or wrong. Head isn't duplicated/mirrored, so it's safe. But the body is mirrored. The mirrored UV is moved 1 unit. And all edges are softened. I also used Triangulated cage to bake.
Steps I took:
-Duplicate body with Scale -X.
-Freeze Transformation
-Reverse Normal
-Combine
-Merged vertices
-Soften Edges
-Export out :poly122:
@ PyrZern - Make sure you put separate smoothing groups on the mirrored halves. If that doesn't work make sure you have your tangent space set correctly ( if you are using marmoset 2.0).
@ PyrZern - Make sure you put separate smoothing groups on the mirrored halves. If that doesn't work make sure you have your tangent space set correctly ( if you are using marmoset 2.0).
I'm using Maya btw. I thought smoothing group is for Max ? Using Marmoset 1.0 btw.
Not sure if I will finish in time. Been screwing around too much but I will finish this one!
Kapoffmthe beard looks epic!
Everyone is doing a great job!
More successful baking result here :P Only because the center piece isn't mirrored <_<" I will figure it out later when I'm not rush for time like right now.
6.6k Tris so far. Don't think I will make him realistic though :P Still a lot for me to learn before that happens.
Well done to the recent posters, good to see people are still keeping on with the challenge
Went back and sorted some bits out as I wasn't happy with them the first time around, just hoping to grunge him up now as well as get the weapons done.
Well done to the recent posters, good to see people are still keeping on with the challenge
Went back and sorted some bits out as I wasn't happy with them the first time around, just hoping to grunge him up now as well as get the weapons done.
Yeah I think that the metal is way too shiny and smooth atm Torch. You gotta make that sucker dirty.
Torch, I love the wrinkles around his pants and boots. But I'm not sold on how his sleeves look.
Umm... How do you add in nice details like armor cracks and chips without blowing up your ZBrush ? If I am to add cracks to his armor, it would be like a 6-7 mill points subtool.
Umm... How do you add in nice details like armor cracks and chips without blowing up your ZBrush ? If I am to add cracks to his armor, it would be like a 6-7 mill points subtool.
For superficial stuff you can paint them into spec/gloss or use something like crazybump to convert a scratch map to normal and use it as a masked overlay on your normal map, nice cheap way of breaking up the surface.
Replies
How-To in Maya: http://www.pinterest.com/pin/463448617876586851/
How-To in Max: http://www.pinterest.com/pin/463448617876583982/
Sorry I have been busy trying to finish my art test. Just drop by and say Hi :P
No real progress from me.
I hear you mate. Just wanted you to know.
I will make a second post for critiques!
Ravenok: Looking pretty good so far. looking forward to more progress.
Anthony44: Not sure if its the angle but his face is really scary, and big.
his waist is a tad small considering there's several layers of cloth and armor
on it.
Rafferty: Looking pretty nice man. Maybe add a bit more fullness to the hair?
Also that pommel on that sword is huge!
Pav3d: I really like how its turning out. The bear is looking pretty good so far
Tierzilla: I feel you on the alpha cards. Keep experimenting!
JohnnyRaptor: I like the cloth definition on his shoulders. The face has a lot of character.
DarthBartas: Nice start. Looking forward to some updates.
Tan: I need to see it from the other angles but the face looks like it is too
flat in certain spots like the forhead and their is something weird going on around your eye.
CapableWizard: I like what you got so far. A lot of character in that face
Steveston: Looking really nice man. No complaints other than i feel like
the cheeks are doing something weird. Looks like an indentation of some sort.
Kapoff: The cloth looks great. I think the metal parts look a little too soft
and lumpy.
@ Kapoff - good start on the texturing. The metal is looking very plastic. Also the pants and boots are looking too sharp.
Small bit of progress. Beard is really slowing me down... Hope to have his head done by the end of the month and the rest later.
stevston89: I think your individual hairs are way too thick, take a look at this image from the crytek doc
I think your hairs are maybe 3 or 4 times too thick?
The metalness instead of the spec, albedo with a lesser AO impact and a gloss map that does a way greater job than before. Bit so far... it's a true PAIN IN THE A@!#
So yeah... That...
And for those that are not yet suffering like me: There's that thing and it's written version
Enjoy and learn folks!
Albedo = Flat color/ color changes. (if using metalness this is where you define specular inensity and color.)
Reflectance = Flat values of material reflective. ( Very similar to spec).
Metalness = Black and white metal mask.
Glossiness/ Roughness = How rough your surface is this should be the most detailed map you make.
Other things to note. Metal should always be black in albedo, unless you are using the metalness workflow. This is because in using the metalness workflow the metalness map automaticly make the albedo black and then uses the albedo to determine reflectance/ spec. The should be no AO/ Cavity in any of your maps. There are built in slots for this in PBR engines you should let those control it.
Problem is that for instance in Toolbag 2 you have to chose between a spec and a metalness map. And as far a simple chest plate goes, the thing looks OK. But when I work with my metalness map for objects both metallic and dielectric the dielectrics go apeshit and are cruelly ugly. You have absolutely no control as far as the reflectance value goes in a metalness map, you just choose is the object is metallic or not. And that, for dielectrics is not suitable.
So what, the metalness map is just there for objects composed mainly of metal or is there a thing that I don't get?
On another related unrelated note, the voting thread for next month is now started here
Small update. Tweaked the body materials and painted, baked and started working on the head. next step, the hair planes and the underlying hair layer... Boy that will be a challenge.
Quick question, has anyone modelled the breastplate using sub division methods? I'm having a bit of trouble with the raised lines
It works ok, but I'd love to see if anyone else has had a shot. It would probably be a lot easier to do in Zbrush but I don't want to give in, I'd rather do it using subdiv even if it's more of a challenge
You're a nutcase
@capablewizard I have always found subd more hassle than its worth
Here is my update, it's been awhile so I have fallen a little behind.
My skin and eyes result. Not sure if I will introduce some hair planes in the eyebrows.
EDIT: Started to work on the hair planes.
Tested a few different setups. Tried the thinner with less coverage method but without success sadly. Threw some planes with the Object Paint option in Max and experimented with different amounts oh hair on each plane and so far this is the best result I got. Any piece of advise would be welcome guys. I'm currently getting that result with 83 instances of 4 different planes for a total of 390 tris so i think I can go way beyond that. The question would be how to do it in order to make it look as badass as Joel's beard.
Since some people have been asking me about skin and some of you seem to be struggling a bit I will do a breakdown of my skin at the end of the challenge. First pass pretty much done on the beard. Gonna do another set of cards now with smaller hairs and transition hair. Also gotta paint the hair and get the normals sorted... Lots to do little time... Will most likely have to finish off the rest of the character later. Anyways here is a screen:
Could I see your beard textures? theyre looking pretty good atm. Also what are you rendering them in?
I was working days and nights on the art test, and when it's almost done, I found out the deadline is like a month away from now #_# So yeah, I'm coming back to this +.+
Here are the textures, it's a crop from the big head texture sheet. And I'm running it in in Toolbag 2 atm. Will maybe test in Cryengine but it would be in march already.
Thanks for the crit, I have such a hard time with feet. Sorry for not replying back sooner.
Hey ladies and gents I'm hosting a hangout for anybody who wants to join, I'll be working on my character for this challenge and maybe something else, but feel free to work on whatever.
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi27561tbde6510ujf2tcdg?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
stevston89 - I think the beard could use some different colors in it. Some variation in the hair color could really push it as right now it just seems like a block. Look at some of the character art from "The Last of Us"
Kapoff - Materials on the body look pretty good. I think you need to push the color temperature zones on the face though. Right now it feels like it is one color and makes him look waxy/dead.
here is the preview.
like 3k tris =S
I fear I have nothing to contribute as I have zero experience with anything other than sculpting, but it's very pleasing to see everyone progress and improve.
Not sure if I plan on keeping the fibermesh beard or not, first time using it.
demon5026 I think you need to watch the feet and the fingertips, they both seem rather bulbous. You do have a lot of nice details in your mesh though.
Also, I derped a little bit in marmo' to render a pertier image.
920tris so far.
PS: Was My first Google hangout this night and I was surprised how well this thing is designed, it actually works pretty well. Might even do it again!
PPS: I made a post but pobably forgot to post this last time. Pav3d you asked for the texture sheets for the hair. And as I already said it above, I render in Marmoset Toolbag 2 atm but I might wanna try it out in Cry' but it would probably be in march already.
Added:
So here's what I was doing during the g+hangout. I started out on lowpoly topology. So I could join the fun of making beards. Well, I was, until I decided to test the texture map so far[Normal, and AO maps]. Nasty seam down the body
Steps I took:
-Duplicate body with Scale -X.
-Freeze Transformation
-Reverse Normal
-Combine
-Merged vertices
-Soften Edges
-Export out :poly122:
I took a break from making endless beards and made the diffuse maps and then went back to it :P Heres the diffuse maps flat shaded:
@PyrZern: make one smoothing group for the whole thing OR delete one half and bake, then mirror it.
Fookin yessssssssss
and 360
I'm using Maya btw. I thought smoothing group is for Max ? Using Marmoset 1.0 btw.
I deleted half, baked, and mirrored. Set UV-1, combined, and soft edges again. Doesn't work O o'
I think it's set at 16 right now.
I'm going to be switching back and forth between the character challenge and something else I am working on.
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpj8la7c5u78nn92k1kfl8n0?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
Here's another WIP after todays hangout, slow going.. Almost finished with the accessories excited to get back to some proper sculpting
Progress after todays hangout here too. Going to attack the weapons now!
Kapoffmthe beard looks epic!
Everyone is doing a great job!
6.6k Tris so far. Don't think I will make him realistic though :P Still a lot for me to learn before that happens.
Went back and sorted some bits out as I wasn't happy with them the first time around, just hoping to grunge him up now as well as get the weapons done.
Yeah I think that the metal is way too shiny and smooth atm Torch. You gotta make that sucker dirty.
Umm... How do you add in nice details like armor cracks and chips without blowing up your ZBrush ? If I am to add cracks to his armor, it would be like a 6-7 mill points subtool.
For superficial stuff you can paint them into spec/gloss or use something like crazybump to convert a scratch map to normal and use it as a masked overlay on your normal map, nice cheap way of breaking up the surface.