Fan Art : Final Fantasy 7 : Fusion Sword

avenali312

Hey all,

It's my first post here (even though I've been a member since 2012 haha). I found this high poly model I made way back in 2009 for a speed modeling challenge (hence why the sword isn't 100% accurate to the film, I was in a rush! haha). The high poly was modeled in 27 minutes back in the day.

I decided it was a good warm up to get back into high to low poly conversion and baking, so here's my initial attempt and specs. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

Mesh : 1.7k tris
Maps : 2k diffuse / specular / normal
Tools : 3ds Max 2013 / xNormal / Photoshop CS5 / Xoliul Shader / Grabviewport 2.5

praetus

The textures feel very much that you simply applied pictures of metal and because of this it doesn't actually feel like metal. I'd say it reminds me more of something made of wood for cosplay and painted to look like metal. I think you need to redo the textures to make them read as actual metal and not "weathered photograph of metal."

stevston89

I would recommend going back to the highpoly and cleaning it up. The edges are way to sharp. Also the diffuse for you metals is too bright. Metal has almost no diffuse information at all. It should be mostly black with all information coming from the spec. The handle could use some work as well. It looks like flat colors with an overlay. I would looking adding details like leather wrapping around the handle or something like that.

avenali312

Thanks to both of you! Very insightful and great information. I'll address the issues.

avenali312

stevston89 wrote: »

I would recommend going back to the highpoly and cleaning it up. The edges are way to sharp.

Went back and started with the high poly comments. Adjusted quite a bit of the mesh and got rid of all the super sharp edges. Now they are small rounded edges. Found some more reference and adjusted the overall shape and added some details.

As always, feedback is appreciated.

stevston89

I should have mention this as well but you want as bit of a bevel to your edges as well. Nothing should cut straight down. Reason being is with the bevel you get more information for the rays to cast down to while baking. Here is a little image I made to show you what I mean. You have a much cleaner bake if you start to do this. Also you do have to have huge bevels small one will work just fine.

avenali312

stevston89 wrote: »

I should have mention this as well but you want as bit of a bevel to your edges as well.

Thanks. I was trying to do that in some areas. It may be the render doesn't show it too well. Here's a closeup with a wire. Do you think I need more bevel?

stevston89

Yeah it needs more still. It should be noticeable fully zoomed out. Though the floating piece by the guard of the sword is the most concerning. I would make it so it doesn't float and has a bevel that connects it down to the blade.

avenali312

stevston89 wrote: »

Yeah it needs more still. It should be noticeable fully zoomed out. Though the floating piece by the guard of the sword is the most concerning. I would make it so it doesn't float and has a bevel that connects it down to the blade.

Totally agree. For the life of me, I can't find a reference photo showing how that piece is connected. I really don't like how it's just floating there either.

Setes

@Stevston, i dont think he needs to make such slopes on this mesh, as the mesh itself is sloped compared to the indets, so the rays will have a slight angle to them.


As for the floating mesh, how about "just" making it a part of the sword itself?

I'm rather impressed that you did that highpoly in 27 minutes, well done

stevston89

@ Setes if that were the case than the original bake would have worked fine. It doesn't matter how you retopo it is almost always a good idea to bevel your edges. It just allows for more information while baking. It's a really good habit to have either way.

avenali312

Setes wrote: »

I'm rather impressed that you did that highpoly in 27 minutes, well done

Thanks for the feedback! It was created using Lightwave for the Newtek forum's weekly speed modeling challenge where you get 30 minutes to build a mesh related to the week's category. Definitely a lot of fun :thumbup:

avenali312

Okay, here's another attempt at this. Added more bevel and smoothed transitions between surfaces. Made some design decisions regarding the floating blade.

avenali312

Okay, another update to this. I worked a bit more on the high poly and adjusted the low poly to fit the new revisions. Baked out a quick normal and occlusion to see how it was coming along. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

High versus Low


Low with Normal

stevston89

Looks Much better than your first bake. Though I am still not a fan of the floating blade piece.

avenali312

Started blocking out some of the diffuse map. Really trying hard not to photo source the way I did originally and use it in a smarter way this time.

Read a couple really helpful texturing tutorials by Alan Van Ryzin and Kevin

stevston89

If you are using difuse/spec/gloss workflow. I would suggest making your diffuse a whole lot darker. Mark has almost no diffuse information. All of the light you see from metal is specular.

avenali312

stevston89 wrote: »

If you are using difuse/spec/gloss workflow. I would suggest making your diffuse a whole lot darker. Mark has almost no diffuse information. All of the light you see from metal is specular.

That makes a lot of sense. I'll adjust it once I get a spec map going and can tweak both the diffuse and spec at the same time.

I've actually never painted color into a spec map before, but after doing some quick reading, it seems like something I've been missing out on.

stevston89

Yeah metals are make up the majority of the real world objects with colored spec. Taking advantage of that fact can rally sell your materials. It also helps with distinguishing different metals.

avenali312

Anyone else? Shape, bake, color combo? The more feedback the better! :thumbup:

RailbladerX

What i can tell you is that the texture needs more work. It looks more like concrete, and less like metal. Remember without proper lighting Sword metal is on the darker grey side. even polish metal is dark. Increase the spec. make it look more like metal.

But great job!

avenali312

RailbladerX wrote: »

What i can tell you is that the texture needs more work. It looks more like concrete, and less like metal. Remember without proper lighting Sword metal is on the darker grey side. even polish metal is dark. Increase the spec. make it look more like metal.

But great job!

Awesome, thanks!

avenali312

I've been trying to concentrate on the metal material recently and this is where I'm at so far. More specifically, darkening up the diffuse and putting all the detail in the spec map. Any feedback is awesome feedback. Thanks!

avenali312

Put some more time into the maps for this piece in particular. Feel like it's definitely going in a better direction than my initial attempt. Also, I made the switch over to Marmoset for previewing purposes.

stevston89

This is looking good. Only crit for the blade right now is maybe so more thought/ logic to the wear. The wear will mostly hit the edges ( which you have currently), but it will all be at the areas of use. So scratches across the edge of the blade, dirt in the crevices, and dulling/ wear of the corners will help sell it better. Keep it up!

avenali312

Some more work on the blade area:

avenali312

Some more progress. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

stevston89

you nee more spec on that copper piece. I would make the diffuse for the copper piece very very dark orange and then put a bright orange in the spec. Currently I can't tell what material it is. Keep it up!

avenali312

stevston89 wrote: »

you nee more spec on that copper piece. I would make the diffuse for the copper piece very very dark orange and then put a bright orange in the spec. Currently I can't tell what material it is. Keep it up!

Thanks! I'll take a look at that for sure.

I decided to try and get some sort of material on all the pieces in hopes of getting more feedback. I'm by no means calling this final yet. Hopefully, it's almost there though.

avenali312

Another update taking into account the recent comments. I'm also posting my maps with hopes of getting some feedback on them as well.

Any and all comments are greatly appreciated!

Equanim

Looking good! I like the subtle imperfections on the blade, it really reads as steel.

The handle could use some more definition. I've seen sword handles that are in sort of a leather sleeve, the way yours is now, but I think if you made it look like it's wrapped, it would really put this over the top.

Nice work!

avenali312

Equanim wrote: »

Looking good! I like the subtle imperfections on the blade, it really reads as steel.

The handle could use some more definition. I've seen sword handles that are in sort of a leather sleeve, the way yours is now, but I think if you made it look like it's wrapped, it would really put this over the top.

Nice work!

Thanks for the great feedback!

I gave the handle another attempt after looking at some reference for alternate styles.

avenali312

I wasn't really happy with the updated handle. The two different types of leather were reading too similar, so I went back in and adjusted my maps to break them up a bit more and give the wrap piece some wear.

Let me know what you think!

Rurouni Strife

Not a fan of the leather wrap on the handle as is. I'd find a different reference-even if it is accurate. The pattern is odd. As far as the texture of the wrap, it's too clean compared to the beat up sword.

Other than that this is looking quite nice.

avenali312

Rurouni Strife wrote: »

Not a fan of the leather wrap on the handle as is. I'd find a different reference-even if it is accurate. The pattern is odd. As far as the texture of the wrap, it's too clean compared to the beat up sword.

Other than that this is looking quite nice.

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, I was still up in the air about it even after the update. The reference I can find actually from FF7 usually show something very flat like this:



I was hoping to get a little more detail and definition in the area to help balance it with the huge blade. My next choice was something like this:



or this:

Ssjtroll

I like your progress! I agree with Rurouni Strife that the leather doesn't read well. I would also expect from the condition of the blade that the hilt would be more warn too.



Keep up the awesome work, I look forward to seeing more

avenali312

Ssjtroll wrote: »

I like your progress! I agree with Rurouni Strife that the leather doesn't read well. I would also expect from the condition of the blade that the hilt would be more warn too.

Keep up the awesome work, I look forward to seeing more

Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it!

I gave this another try to see if I could get some improvement. Went with more of a traditional wrap and tried to paint in the areas where the hands would be gripping most.

avenali312

Tweaked some more maps and materials. Also trying out Marmoset 2 for a few days before I upgrade my copy. Any feedback is welcome!

ripper351

Looking so much better!

ripper351

Try and work on the silhouette of your handle. Right now it just looks very flat and only has color information, could use some displacement or bump to the leather straps.

avenali312

ripper351 wrote: »

Try and work on the silhouette of your handle. Right now it just looks very flat and only has color information, could use some displacement or bump to the leather straps.

Thanks for the feedback!

Right now I'm working on the spec/gloss for that area to help give it some definition. It has a pretty strong normal there, but without the spec, it's lost.

As for displacement, I've only ever done that process for pre-rendered meshes, never real-time. Would that be the equivalent to a height map out of xNormal?

oxblood

such a huge improvement, i think the copper could have a little rust on it, its still a bit clean, and I personally think the regular lighting u had showed off your materials alot more also.. This is really looking good though.

avenali312

oxblood wrote: »

such a huge improvement, i think the copper could have a little rust on it, its still a bit clean, and I personally think the regular lighting u had showed off your materials alot more also.. This is really looking good though.

Thanks! Totally agree about both comments. I just moved to Marmoset 2 and have been looking for the closest equivalent to the "Garage" preset from version 1. That's what the initial images are using. I may have to go on a hunt for an HDR image that doesn't have too much color in it.

avenali312

So, I think I'm calling this one done for now. I've noticed my focus and motivation slipping a bit, so it's time to move on to something new and get refueled with drive.

Thanks to everyone for helping me out. It's awesome to go through the thread and see the progress. The first images are garbage haha, and now I know why.

Feedback is still appreciated, I just may not look at this file again for a short while.