Displacement maps, help

Prvelli

I have no idea how many i asked it. But so far, i didn't get any good about this.

I want to know, for making characters for games, are displacement maps used? Or normal maps are still used? Or displacement maps are used only on films and cinematic

What i know about this, is that, Normal maps, give fake illusion on low polym model making them to look as a high poly right?

But, for displacement maps, so far, i understand that it chances the silhouette Or not?

What is the workflow of making disp... maps? Are you using it for game production? Can you tell me please how it is created?

glottis8

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85787&highlight=displacement+maps

there is a search tool in polycount. You should use it to look around and see if this topic has been discussed in other threads.

Prvelli

I tried and read all the threads. But it is too technical explained.

Shiniku

You can use displacement maps, in conjunction with tesselation, to create a less polygonal silhouette for your characters. When you tesselate you add more geometry in between your polies, and the displacement map acts as a guide, telling where the geometry should push outward and when it should go in.

You generate them the same way you generate normals or AO or anything really, you bake the information from a high-poly to a map.

Yes, games are making use of this in addition to normal maps. An example that I recall because it's the first time I really noticed on a character was in Max Payne 3. You could toggle the tesselation, and when you did his head and ears would round out and you wouldn't see the edges, so they were using a displacement map.

NegevPro

I'm a bit skeptical of using displacement maps to be honest. From some "pop out" floor tests I did in marmoset toolbag, it seems like you really need a lot of tessellation to be able to achieve a realistic "pop out" effect in a floor or wall. Is it really cheaper to use a displacement map + tessellation versus just modeling out a floor?

What would be the best possible method for making things such as floors "pop out"?

ZacD

Tessellation isn't useful on everything. It's good for medium sized detail, so like rocks or larger shapes. It's great for mostly flat things or things thing harsh edges or very clean cutout shapes.

Boban

I get it. I want to use or at least i want to learn how to use this map, for characters and creatures. So is the same process as creating normal maps, but instead. i need more polycount on the low poly mesh to work?

JordanN

I was watching a UVW unwrapping tutorial yesterday and the guy used a displacement map at the end.

Unlike a normal map,an object with displacement can be zoomed in on and you'll see real geometry and shadows (whereas an object with just a normal map looks flat).

It also uses a lot of geometry to look right (he used a sphere and turbosmoothed it to 5 million polygons with a displacement map).

This is likely a reason games haven't been using it till now (DirectX 11 has a dedicated tessellation pipeline though it's still performance heavy I believe).

Boban wrote: »

I get it. I want to use or at least i want to learn how to use this map, for characters and creatures. So is the same process as creating normal maps, but instead. i need more polycount on the low poly mesh to work?

In the same tutorial, the guy used the same bump map texture for the displacement map. But yeah, it really requires a lot of geometry to not look bad.

ZacD

From what I've seen, displacement maps require evenly spaced and as square as possible geometry.

Like this



Is better than

Prvelli

So for the second one, normal map will for better?
So to summary about displacement map.

It created as same as normal map.
It change/modifies geometry.
Need more polycount to work.
UV's are very important/

Now i need proper tutorial to see how to create:D

ZacD

The 2nd one is a pretty standard low poly model for Xbox 360/PS3 specs. It'll use normal maps without displacement maps. The tri count and topology is set up to animate well and only have geo where it effects the silhouette.

The 1st one is a base mesh for zbrush, but models that will use displacement maps will work better with geometry set up the same way for similar reasons. You will want to use a normal map with a displacement map, for games they work together. With displacement maps, silhouette and optimization does not work in the same ways.

EarthQuake

Displacement maps do not replace normal maps, at least in games (it can for offline rendering). Even with displacement/tessellation you still need a normal map for the shading information.

Prvelli

Wait a sec. Normal map and displacement map can be used both as the same time?

ZacD

Yes. In most game engines you HAVE to use them both at the same time. Displacement will not effect the lighting at all, it will just offset geometry. The normal map will add the lighting detail, the displacement is just to add geometry and effect the silhouette.

EarthQuake

Yeah, its probably worth checking out the tutorial I wrote on displacement maps, its for Toolbag 1, but many of the concepts are universal.

http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/displacement

Prvelli

Thanks. I read it. But, won't be good to make tutorial for CryEngine and UDK? Why Marmoset?

BARDLER

Prvelli wrote: »

Thanks. I read it. But, won't be good to make tutorial for CryEngine and UDK? Why Marmoset?

Because he works at 8 Monkey Labs, who make Marmoset Toolbag XD. There are plenty of google results if you look up how to do displacement in both of those engines. Also that tutorial EQ posted covers every concept about displacement and is applicable to any other engine out there.

Snader

ZacD. Just square, though, right? Not necessarily equal sized squares, but merely squares to avoid elongated triangles?