How can Polycount help?
polycounter lvl 20
Hello!
Adam here from the Polycount team.
I'd like to get a thread started to hear from the Dota 2 content creator sabout how we at Polycount can make things easier for you. Many of you have been gracious enough to share revenue with us as a third-party contributor and we're really, really appreciative of that. We're really happy that so many of you call Polycount 'home' when it comes to being a video game artist.
We have a new, huge update coming to the site and would like to start talking with you guys about what we can do as a website to help you in creating your Dota 2 items.
One thing we're going to start doing is help promote the monthly community contests that have been happening for awhile. We'd also like to give away an officialy Polycount prize (...hmm...) to the winner of each of these contests.
Some ideas we've come up with:
Do you feel there are ways we can help support you as a content creator or someone looking to learn more about it? Please let us know.
I'm always available on Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/manchild/
Or you can reach me directly: adam AT polycount.com
Adam here from the Polycount team.
I'd like to get a thread started to hear from the Dota 2 content creator sabout how we at Polycount can make things easier for you. Many of you have been gracious enough to share revenue with us as a third-party contributor and we're really, really appreciative of that. We're really happy that so many of you call Polycount 'home' when it comes to being a video game artist.
We have a new, huge update coming to the site and would like to start talking with you guys about what we can do as a website to help you in creating your Dota 2 items.
One thing we're going to start doing is help promote the monthly community contests that have been happening for awhile. We'd also like to give away an officialy Polycount prize (...hmm...) to the winner of each of these contests.
Some ideas we've come up with:
- Help promote tools and tutorials specific to Dota 2 content creation.
- Help promote community events. (E.g. If there is a team of content creators working on a large content package, we would help promote it.)
- Showcase the contest winning entries.
- Official Polycount Dota 2 contests.
Do you feel there are ways we can help support you as a content creator or someone looking to learn more about it? Please let us know.
I'm always available on Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/manchild/
Or you can reach me directly: adam AT polycount.com
Replies
Workshop stuff requires a lot of marketing considering the amount of great entries, and I think it would help offer a lot of needed exposure, especially to new artists getting into the game with quality items.
All the ideas suggested in the OP are great though.
greez
Interesting idea! Would you be using that license as part of your toolset when promoting your items?
Do you mean in the same vein as our Recaps? Who would be deciding on what is shown? This is a really interesting idea, lets talk about the logistics of this idea as a community.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100016
Even could be a highlighted tutorial or thread to keep an eye on at the bottom. Basically just a recap clone for the dota community?
I think that we could maybe archive this thread, then split it up into two, like "WAYWO 2014 Dota 2 Edition - WIP and Critique" and "Dota 2 Workshop Releases and Showcases". The first one for progress pics, general critiques, feedback and suggestions, then the second one dedicated to Workshop links and finished item showcases.
Pretty much, in the style of the recaps would be fantastic, with links to workshop entries to allow new and existing users to vote (As suggested earlier).
Ideally a neutral third party would choose what to show, which I believe is the current system in place for 'what are you working on.' There's a lot of clicks and bias in the small Dota UGC scene, it would be ideal to avoid that from creeping in (From what I've seen).
Not sure if something like that would be within your reach, but it would be could provide lots of useful information!
Anything is possible.
What sort of questions would be asked?
I think a thread and then selecting top answers is probably the best bet for something like that.
Personally I would like to know more information on how the selection process works, how important votes actually are and what purpose they serve (With the unveiling of upvote scandals), how some sets get added after being on the workshop for over a year.
Echoing adding some Dota stuff to the Weekly Recaps. I've seen very little Dota stuff in the recaps despite there being a HUGE amount of amazing work from the Red Moon guys, Jeremy Klein, etc. I know there was a recap last week but I definitely think Red Moon's Three Virtues submission should be included in the next: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=217835377
And YES, more Polycount Dota 2 contests would we awesome to the Nth degree!
Maybe do periodic updates of what has been put into the game that has been made by Polycounters?
If you'd like, I'd love the upvote to get this exposed: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1vpni3/dota_2_content_creators_how_can_polycount_help/
Similar to that, we could have something like a "newbie" week, where once a month we organize something similar to the "Monthly Noob Challenge", to help people with the whole process of submitting an item, from concept to rigging and importing it in-game, we could pick a hero, item slot and theme (or maybe even a concept like they do on the Noob Challenges) and then people start to do stuff based on that, with people helping out and lots of critique.
Definitely cool, would be amazing if that happened on a bi-weekly or monthly basis. Maybe even a live chat (a man can dream...)
Don't know about the a weekly Recap, seems a little bit too much, maybe monthly.
Hmmm not sure how keen I am on this idea. There's plenty of people here on Polycount willing to help for free which is something I really like about the community. The more established artists do it out of the goodness of their heart to help the new guys, not to make money doing it. If you feel like you need help, Teriyaki, there's plenty of people to walk you through it for free
I'm going to second Sukotto on this. Not really a fan. I think theres too many variables to say that there is a guaranteed formula yet for the workshop so the profit is out the window. As far as the info I think there is a ton of great information out there, and that that first workshop entry should be special, it should be your baby.
Finally I'm not really sure how I would feel if I got in my first item because I worked with rockstars
ofc i would
Oh, I understand how the process of the workshop goes, I think that introducing %'s and submitting items in a mentor/student fashion just isn't the proper way to go about learning in this setting and it would probably just confuse end goals and make things weird.
Like it's been said, we all don't mind helping for free so we just do that. Belkuns idea about a noob challenge would be tight. Weekly challenge based on certain criteria and constraints, and everyone posts that project in the same thread. I can see the learning now. It couldn't be "too" defined of a goal, or else the workshop might be seeing 100 of the same item, haha.
We could just get a concept from a fellow polycounter, or do like on the "Monthly Noob Challenges" over at Pimping and Previews, where they get a cool character/scenery concept from the internet, and everyone starts on the same level. The objective could be just to finish the item, get it working in-game and some marketing, no need for submit so we don't clog up the workshop with 100 of the same item as you said haha.
With a small section for captions, so you can say a little about the set/item/WIP etc. not sure if that's possible.
There used to be monthly challenges, but then they kind of just stopped. Not sure what happened there. They were a great boost in the small community we had here, even if I didn't take part in them. :thumbup:
Well that's good to hear! I missed that thread, always tons of great work in there!
This doesn't mean I am against this idea. In fact that's far from the truth. The new site even allows us to showcase artwork much, much easier now than it ever has been. I am genuinely curious to hear why you'd like to see others Dota 2 artwork easily showcased.
Inspiration? Comparison? Review? All sound reasons to me, but I'd love to hear from you on this.
And pretty much the other reasons you listed
All the above. To expand on this maybe for work form the threads it would be cool to see something like what cghub has with its popular thumbnail gallery.Could be easy way to find work you may not have known of
To answer a question with a question. I'd counter: Why not?
It's just as valid as any other form of game art. The only difference is that we have a pre-defined starting point and limitations. People still find incredibly unique ways to enhance the characters and showcase their own work. Great work is still great work. The original models by the Valve artists aren't too shabby either.
If you want to make a living doing Dota art there's not a ton of time left over for personal artwork that would be typically seen in a banner, recap or P&P.
In terms of how PC can help in general, I have no idea. Really everything we need has to be done by Valve.
On the subject of how Polycount could help, I agree with the general theme expressed in many posts already : exposure. The Dota Polycount subforum is actually quite known in the Dota workshop community, but ironically I have the feeling that many people posting on PC in the regular GD, TechTalk and PnP forums might not really know about it at all.
What's even more ironic is that some of the exchanges going on here in the Dota2 subforum are starting to be quite reminiscent of what some refer to as "the old Polycount" in terms of exchanges, critiques and mutual help (probably because the Dota2 subforum is centered around a specific game pipeline and art style, just like how PC used to be centered around Q2, Q3A and UT2003/4 back then.)
I think a great way to bring exposure to this quality content would be to have some kind of aggregator page ,showing the full list of Dota items made by PC members. Currently some artists use the general workshop thread for that, but it's not really a set rule and it's a bit hit and miss really.
Therefore It would be great to have a special page featuring a simple grid layout, filled with the workshop thumbnails of the items created by PC members, linking straight to the the corresponding Steam Workshop pages and maybe the corresponding PC thread. There could be something similar with Collections too, showing promo pics instead linking directly to full sets. And of course there should be an option to filter between sets already accepted in the game store, and sets still pending.
Basically, something just like this, but filled with PC-originating contributions only :
http://steamcommunity.com/
There could be an image banner linking to this special page, rotating along with the other regular featured art. That way, anyone browsing the regular PC forums would have a chance to know about it and go visit it. That could potentially bring a lot of traffic to items pending acceptance, and shed light on some awesome yet little known Dota UGC artists.
Now of course I have no idea how this could be technically implemented - it would be great if it was somehow automatic, probably with some kind of special flag/tag system. Or maybe it just needs to be curated through a wiki-like system where everybody simply adds their own links.
Just my 2c !
For me the hangout has been a huge learning experience. The head to head contact with other more experienced artists has been a huge blast and a real big impact on my learning work. The forum is great to get feedback, ask questions and stuff but due to the immediate response and the screensharing possibility the hangouts have taught me a great deal.
The polycount hangout users have been talking about this before, there is a 15 people license for the hangout which businesses can get. It would be awesome to have 15 slots, or if there would be another video/chat conference tool that would suit our needs that would be just as good.
Seconding the idea of having a gallery to give greater exposure to the amazing artwork that is created in this sub-forum. I think that Pior is totally correct when he says that a lot of users from the "main" sections are pretty unaware of the work that gets posted in here - I had no idea that there was much going on in here until I decided to jump into making items myself, and was blown away by the thriving community in here, and the amount of awesome work being created - and that's from somebody who checks the forums multiple times a day!
This also brings up the point about exposure again - there is SO MUCH amazing artwork being created, it is easy for items to get lost in the sheer volume of work posted (either in a thread here or on the workshop). This is a pretty common complaint that, unless your item hits the front page of the workshop and rakcs up thousands of views/ votes from there, it can sink into obscurity quickly. Having a gallery to showcase the Polycount communities current contributions would be a great way of helping the artists in the community gain a bit of traction with exposure of their items I reckon.
How about for TF2/CS:GO community can get fair treatment like dota 2 community for upcoming new features for this website?
- Return of Monthly Challenges- this seems completely doable. It's also been noted that this is due to a majority of us being busy with a much bigger 'challenge'
- Marmoset as a possible prize for these challenges
- A bi-weekly or monthly recap of the art that has been created, with links to the WIP page and Workshop page so people can vote if they choose.
- Possibly breaking up the main Workshop Thread into two separate entities:
1) A 2014 DOTA 2 WAYWO-style thread for showing off WIPs, getting crits, and asking questions
2) a Dota 2 "It's Finally Finished" style thread for sharing your submissions for others to peruse and vote on.
I'd like to hear what more people think about this one in particular - are you interested in WIP and 'Done' being in separate threads?
- AMA with a Valve artist/dev, we could either gather questions to ask or if they are open to the idea perhaps twitch stream a Q&A that people could watch live and ask things in real time.
I imagine if this happened a lot of people would be interested, so we could have the session recorded and have prepared questions from those that know they won't be able to participate due to their time-zone (we're an international bunch!
- Dota 2 banners at the top of the page featuring art by the people in this community.
I'm actually already working on this one. If you have any awesome polycounter Dota art that you would love to see up there feel free to PM me a link to it!
- A 'mentorship' thread, perhaps where someone could either offer themselves up as a mentor or someone inexperienced looking for a hand to guide them. How much interest is there in this?
- More tutorials and sharing of knowledge. Perhaps more tips on creating masks.
- An expandable "Polycount Forged" page that showcases all the Dota 2 sets currently in the game that were made by polycounters, with links to the workshop page and thread if applicable. (I love this idea)
- secondary hangout or expanded hangout
- more exposure to the rest of polycount!
Does that about cover it?
I have also been pondering the idea of occasional interviews or 'spotlights' on members within this community - Showcasing a polycounter, their work, how they got into the scene and what makes them tick, etc. Is that something you guys would be interested in?
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My goal is to help foster the community by bringing everyone together in a collaborative way. I want to make sure we keep active with things you guys have interest in including guides, challenges, and recognizing those who are doing great art but may not already have a lot of exposure or attention.
I apologize for the lengthy post. I look forward to hearing your thoughts, and please feel free to keep adding more suggestions of ways we could possibly help.
bounch!
As much as I love this place and aren't really involved in TF2 or Counterstrike, it seems to me if there's going to be a something like a dedicated gallery to user generated content (which sounds like an awesome idea I'm all for), why not just include all the steam workshops with a subforum? From what I've gathered, dota seems to be the most active one, but that's no reason to neglect the others.
Just a thought, mind you. Like I said, I'm fairly new here, so I don't know the ins and outs of the forum yet. So if I said something that doesn't make sense, feel free to correct me.
And please, the argument of challenging one self is still valid even in a segregated competition. Everyone want to have a try at something achievable. And in regards to "join to learn", well, yeah that can work. Though it doesn't need a competition as many of us have been making stuff outside competitions and learning as much.
And by tutorials i mean have some information about stuff that are needed throughout the whole item making process!
I know there are threads with tutorials but they are not enough for most ppl.
What you should do is ''hire'' experts in dota 2 item creation and create different categories for the whole process.
For example
1)Texturing
2)Modelling
3)Rigging
4)Animating
5)Sculpting
6)Retopo
These categories should be created with loads of information to help ppl with their items.THey should also include a wide variety of videos for each matter+definitions and small details that newcomers could benefit from!
As far as the call for more tutorials, I hope that is in addition to The Tutorial Thread, and The Glorious Polycount Wiki. Granted there are some topics that don't have as much coverage as others in the thread, and the polycount wiki isn't specifically targeted at Dota, but I'd be willing to bet that everything in the "general pipeline" is at least glazed over, or worked through in one of these videos/articles.
Since the Dota community is a mixed bag of professional talent, gifted enthusiasts, and new guys to the realm of game art, it's really tough to make a "end all be all" tutorial, especially with the complete seemingly randomness in pipelines. I've been struggling with this a bit in a rigging tut I'm planning out/working on at the moment. To combat this I find it way easier to go through my own pipeline, but then explain the steps of why I'm doing X and Y instead of how to do X and Y. I use Maya to rig, but I'm trying to arm the viewer with the knowledge that they could have some practical idea of what they should do in order to skin an asymmetrical belt, or weapon in 3ds max, and more importantly, why they should do it.
I don't think making tuts for the sake of making tuts is good/fashionable any more(with the amount floating around, not to mention polycount wiki), they should be designed for the community that needs them, and in our case that's a difficult target audience to pinpoint.
I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but if the resources on item creation are not enough, then you should focus on your fundamentals. The only thing special about dota is its style, and its shader. There are several good steam guides, written by polycounters, on the subject. If anything just compile the existing resources in a Dota specific section on the wiki
http://wiki.polycount.com/
Valves mask guide not good enough, try Vlads
http://www.workshophatemachine.com/2013/05/04/masks/
I think the idea of an open channel between polycount dota 2 artists and Valve would be a great idea. I'm not sure if one chat would be enough honestly, lots of people have different questions, so it would be nice (if possible) to establish some kind of continuos comunication where periodically Valve people can actually answer our doubts...
Someone already asked "how the selection system works?" and yes, i share that doubt too.
Also it would be interesting to know from them what are the limits we have to stand in between to push our creations to the next level. At the beginning Valve posted a list of guidelines to follow for us, but with time, these guidelines have been broken multiple times with very interesting and awesome results...so now where do we stand? we can do anything? or there are still some limits? i wouldn't like to work for a month or more on a set with customization in mind for then getting it rejected for technical issues.
Hey Pior you can actually do this though would require a "bot" to crawl through the pages and get the images etc. I had a basic prototype running on my Dropbox when I think it was Ace-Angel who asked if he could just get a picture only waywo page.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/391285/PolycountImageTest/test.html
Tricky part would be to restrict it to the Dota 2 workshop doesnt classify it as a seprate group so would have to crawl all pages till whatever was last cached. Not tricky just slow but I did a test of a 100 pages and was about 2-3 mins for waywo