Zero Gravity - PBR IBL Environment

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ngon master
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kimmokaunela ngon master
I have had this idea for a long time now. I started to model these models a year ago but now I have time to hopefully finish this. Idea is to create 1980 style space station. I also want to model and texture as modular as possible and maybe even do a little Unity game where you can move in zero gravity. Like the title says, main idea is to use physical based rendering and image based lighting.

Right now it´s rendered inside Marmoset Toolbag 2. I know that this is going to take some time to finish but I don´t care :)

Below is the final results:

Small video:
[ame=" Gravity - Real-Time Environment - YouTube[/ame]

15_5.jpg
15_1.jpg
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15_4.jpg

Making of can be found here: http://kkaunela.webs.com/lfi02.html

Replies

  • Mossbros
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    Mossbros polycounter lvl 6
    Looking real nice, I can see some kit bashing going on there that's pretty noticeable though.

    32e3154f7d8302fb4550627b90a30b95.png
  • Jaber
    Wow looking really nice man, excited to see where this goes.
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    Thanks. I just copy that normal info from my old gas tank model :) I need to change that but it looks pretty good consider the amount of work that went there.

    Here is a little update. I added hoses and I´m trying to make all the wires and hoses into one texture atlas so there is at least some logic. That hose maybe need some more tesselation for the silhouette to look good but for now I´m going to leave it without.

    dhux.jpg
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    Just some testing with modular pieces. Also a lot of fixing textures.

    3lm4.jpg
  • Sebvhe
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    Sebvhe greentooth
    This is awesome !
    Just out of curiosity, how much time does it take you to do let's say the new modular piece ? Is it photoshop only or some dDo magic too ?

    If you could make a whole station with this quality it will be incredible :)

    Oh and btw you have some strange shading artifacts on the outside of your tube on the last picture.
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    Thanks!
    Well this project is pretty easy because there are metal panels that stop and start on spesific points. I think the modeling so far has took about 1,5 day but texturing is the thing that takes most of the time. It´s always a lot of planning and vertex snapping when doing modular stuff but when you have the pieces done it´s so nice to start building :)

    I do all the basic stuff in Photoshop but I don´t have dDo. I think it will take all the fun out of things :)

    And thanks for pointing out that shading problem!
  • Jeff Parrott
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    Jeff Parrott polycounter lvl 15
    Really nice work! Tesselation on the hose would really push it.
  • Sebvhe
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    Sebvhe greentooth
    You're right keep using Photoshop, it gives you much more freedom ! I don't really like dDo, I feel it's pretty obvious to see if you're using it or not. That's why I was wondering if you were indeed using it, I thought you might have find a way to break the "dDo look" :poly124:

    Btw I totally agree on the Tessellation !
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    I used dDo for a few weeks and I kind of liked it. However I didn´t like just pressing buttons and wait for the results. Couple of months ago I accidently generate pretty similar results like dDo make but 100% with Photoshop filters. I made a small tutorial on it and it can be found here: http://kkaunela.webs.com/lfi01.html With this way I could do a pretty good base for textures and then start to do detailing and I have much more control and I could see the progress all the time.
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    Small Update. Added tesselation to hoses. I´m still learning that and I don´t want to use it too much because I need to switch back to my old pc maybe soon and that doesn´t have dx11 GPU. I just love this powerful beast that I have right now :) I also did this computer/terminal prop but textures needs a lot more work.

    igbj.jpg
    3j54.jpg
  • copenhagenjazz
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    copenhagenjazz polycounter lvl 10
    Looks gorgeous! Love the style!
  • Sebvhe
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    Sebvhe greentooth
    Damn I'm really a fan of your work !
    Tessellation is subtle but it add a little something

    And that computer looks so prehistoric I love it ! :)
    Are all the keys in the keyboard in geometry ?

    Can't wait to see more ! :poly121:
  • MeshModeler
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    MeshModeler polycounter lvl 7
    Fuck, this is awesome!
  • dtschultz
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    dtschultz polycounter lvl 12
    That's really cool, man! I love that 80s color scheme.
  • shaderfx
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    shaderfx polycounter lvl 9
    This is really awesome.
  • Pedro Amorim
    I think you should add some more segments to the big corners of that cmputer terminal. right now they have the same ammount of sides that the keyboad corner has, and the keyboard corner is smaller.
  • wester
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    wester polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah this is fantastic! I love this marriage between science fiction and space technology today with just a hint of the 80's.
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    Thanks all for the awesome feedback. That really push me forward!

    Sebvhe: Keys are modeled. It looks better that way :) You never know how close camera gets. Letters are flipped btw :) need to fix that.

    Pedro Amorim: Thanks for advice. I will add more segments there. I have done so much mobile assets and I´m optimizing too much :)
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    Texture tweaking and lighting testing. I don´t know which lighting look better, dark or brighter one. Testing continues :)

    mvl5.jpg
  • supaclueless
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    supaclueless polycounter lvl 8
    I personally prefer your older lighting model. I find the bright blue lighting to be too strong in the darker setting.

    Nevertheless, Awesome job on this mini scene!
    igbj.jpg
  • CyberGameArts
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    CyberGameArts polycounter lvl 7
    hey awesome work man! I am bit confused on the whole PBR thing maybe u can give a little insight since you are using PBR in your project. Where does all the detail go one formerly put into the Spec map? Does that go into the roughness map now? and what exactly does one put into the Reflective(/Specular) slot?
    haha I just feels like someone told you everything you ever learned is wrong hahah; i find this soo confusing. Anyways thanks alot
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    Thanks! It took me a little time to really get into this whole shading system. I studied a lot and watched some real materials. I think I got it but I could be wrong :)

    So basic idea is that you don´t bake stuff into texture maps like before you did. Right values are the key for realistic results. The main concept is that you have only the most important info in your maps and engine will do the rest.

    Diffuse or albedo contains basic colors but no AO or specular highlights baked in. I think you can however but some really small details like cavity because engine cant really do that in real-time? Snow is white and charcoal is pretty black. Metals however do not really have their own albedo color so I usually left those pretty dark grey or black. Here are the chart that Remember me team used: https://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Albedo_values.jpg

    Specular is where you put different values again based on the real materials. I usually keep this pretty clean and values like gold would be yellow and so on. You just have to think how different materials reflect light in real life. Metals are conductors so they will behave differently compared to non-metals. Non-metals will have grayscale values and metals could have colors. This is not written in stone so there are some exceptions. Usually I´m not putting scratches or similar detail to specular map unless there is some different material specular values like water splash over the metal plate. One good example is painted metal so paint have a different specular values than metal so in this case it will be a good idea to put scratches in specular map.Here like Here is a chart for basic materials: http://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SpecularChart.png You can also take a photos and do some tricks to pick up the same data.

    Roughness is where most of the detail stuff will go. I usually think what kind of roughness does the scratches have. In metal they would be much more rougher than part of the metal that don´t have any. Good example is car paint where paint is very gloss but scratches will have that rough feel. This reminds me of the old specular map in some way. You still want to be careful with contrast and right values. This will look awesome when you rotate model and see where that detail is and makes PBR so fun to use.

    This is a very good info package about PBR: http://www.fxguide.com/featured/game-environments-parta-remember-me-rendering/

    I hope this clear some parts of it and sorry for my poor English :)
  • JWalk
    I hope this clear some parts of it and sorry for my poor English :)

    Very clear, and thank you for your interpretation. I like the car paint analogy!
  • divi
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    divi polycounter lvl 9
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    I´m having a hard time to continue this project. I tried to do concept sketching and doing fast block structures in max but my inspiration is gone. Does anyone have a good advice how to get it back :) I guess couple days away from it could be a good idea.

    ct5f.jpg
  • Gannon
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    Gannon greentooth
    I generally muscle through it and it will come back.
  • Stormfreek
    Looking real good dude! It probably isn't much help but maybe looking at a few space ship interior references on google would help you to get a better idea on how to expand this? But yeah keep going dude this is looking fantastic!
  • RogelioD
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    RogelioD Polycount Sponsor
    Gannon wrote: »
    I generally muscle through it and it will come back.

    I second this. Don't rely on your inspiration to push you through, just get it done and eventually that inspiration will come back. Just don't "wait" for it. Make it happen.

    Awesome work btw! Looking forward to more!
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    Thanks for hints! I looked at some reference images like ISS and other. Now I have some sort of idea what kind of lighting conditions there are.

    First light iterations I made was really bright but that is just not right if you think how dark the space is and there is really no point to illuminate the whole station that bright. Now that I closed all the holes there is now way to light that scene the same way. Also there is a very limited light sources in space so lighting should be some sort of man made system. With these things in mind I did a lot of changes in lighting, materials and so on.

    Some models don´t even have uv data so keep that in mind :) I just want to get the mood right before I head further.

    nv0f.jpg
  • JustinSlick
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    JustinSlick polycounter lvl 6
    Geeze, those renders of the airlock section on page one are out of control. This is so gorgeous. Details like the raised foot loops and exposed tubing really sell it. Loving it!
  • nukes
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    nukes polycounter lvl 4
    man that last shot looks close to render cinematic movie quality.
    awed
  • Sebvhe
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    Sebvhe greentooth
    That scene is getting better and better so fast !
    You should definitely add some windows (or is the thing in the left one ?) to contrast the really small and narrow feeling of the station with the space's vastness
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    I will definitely put some windows there! I have a bad feeling that Marmoset is not the right engine for complex environments and I´m waiting UE4 so bad :) Marmoset is awesome for rendering small things with beautiful details but example multiple dynamic lights will make the scene heavy and this scene will have a lot of those. I think Marmoset Toolbag 2 uses forward rendering?

    I wanted to do something else for a change. It´s zero gravity so there is going to be a lot of stuff flowing. I watched Gravity and one prop just hit to my eyes so I had to make that :)

    xsgi.jpg
  • Aerashi
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    Aerashi polycounter lvl 7
    Beautiful stuff Kimmo! Any chance we could get a PBR texture breakdown on those pliers?

    For inspiration maybe watch 2001 Space Odyssey, Even Horizon and random old Star Trek stuff. I find I have to push through when inspiration lags but having a film playing that I've seen and is of the same genre/style to what I'm doing definitely helps.

    Subscribed to this thread btw!
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 7
    Looking cool man. My only gripe would probably be material "variation". Meaning, everything feels like a similar glossy almost wet looking material. There isn't much material separation from object to object or even within the same surface (or so it appears).

    Maybe It's just me, but that's how it feels atm. Try having a little more diversity in the scene. I think it could turn out really cool :)
  • AlexCatMasterSupreme
    s6 wrote: »
    Looking cool man. My only gripe would probably be material "variation". Meaning, everything feels like a similar glossy almost wet looking material. There isn't much material separation from object to object or even within the same surface (or so it appears).

    Maybe It's just me, but that's how it feels atm. Try having a little more diversity in the scene. I think it could turn out really cool :)

    I like it.
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    @Aerashi Thanks, nice reference movies. Even Horizon looks very interesting!

    Pliers textures are really fast and dirty. This is just a small prop so I didn´t want to use too much time. Using photoshop filters I could do these maps in about 10 min. Normal map has a very small noise layer overlayded in about 5% opacity that is not showing in that image for some reason. I still would like to use some sort of automatic system to do these maps in the future and currently I´m looking into Substance Designer. 4.0 version support pbr! There are some nice features but I still find it slow and something that needs a lot more learning.

    ifi2.jpg

    @s6 Thanks for feedback! Almost all the objects in front is using just a basic placeholder material that has just a simple albedo and roughness map on it. I don´t have uv´s for them so I just put something together just to test lighting and other stuff. I´m planning to do that next. So much small things to do but I´m getting there hopefully :)
  • locater16
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    locater16 polycounter lvl 8
    By Odin that looks good! Would love to see it in UE4. Of course I'd love to see UE4 altogether, but if wishes were horses and all that. Great job.
  • Argent
    Phenomenal work. Really enjoying following your progress.

    Quick question, though. I've been researching IBL quite a bit (from a programmer's perspective) and the mathematics behind the technique make it seem predisposed towards lighting props IN a scene, but not an entire scene itself. The shots you've shown so far are making me rethink that, though! I'd love an artist's perspective on IBL - how have you made IBL work for you in this scene? In particular, what do your (ir)radiance maps look like and how are you authoring them? Any thoughts at all are appreciated!

    Looking forward to seeing more of your work!
  • macoll
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    macoll polycounter lvl 9
    Very inspiring, keep up the nice work :thumbup:
  • macoll
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    macoll polycounter lvl 9
    Very inspiring, keep up the nice work :thumbup:
    Thanx for the great links!
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 7
    Hm, this PBR workflow is really confusing to me. Are gloss maps and specular maps outdated now?
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    @Argent Thanks! It´s not easy to light this scene with a single IBL sky. I have a very dark sky right now with just a few bright spots. It´s doing pretty good job for sort of ambient light and give some nice reflections. I however would like to have a local IBL that will affect on a small part of the scene and not for all. I used a simple point light and instead of using simple color I created an image that has some variations and it lights things nice and fake some reflections also. It´s not perfect but right now it sort of works :) I have read a lot about next-gen engines and I think it´s important to use a lot of different IBL systems instead of one. Cryengine local cubemap technique sounds pretty interesting.

    @Brygelsmack I might be wrong here but gloss maps are not outdated. Roughness is like gloss but roughness is much more correct name because the material glossness is depending on that. Glossness is something that eyes can see but roughness is something that you can feel with your hands. It´s also depending a lot about engines what maps you use. Some engines uses gloss maps and others roughness maps. Both of them looks the same but roughness is inverted glossmap. So basically the difference is the name. PBR is also using albedo instead of diffuse because diffuse reflection is depending on albedo value. So the maps needs to be a simple values that will drive the reflections instead of being their results. There are two types of maps for reflectance, specular and metalness. Metalness maps are for materials that conduct current and specular is for the stuff that doesn´t do that. I still recommend you to read more correct info somewhere else :)

    Small update. I got some assets textured and just trying to do find new ways to texture. Substance Designer turned out to be a very powerful tool after some testing. It will not replace Photoshop for me but is going to be a big time saver.

    go7n.jpg
  • Temporal Drift
    top notch work here! really good use of PBR!
  • chriszuko
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    chriszuko polycounter lvl 8
    Dude.. those hoses.. holyhell thats awesome! Everything else is coming along nicely too!

    The rim around the circular opening.. doesn't look.. circular.. it looks blobby.. thick in some spots thinner in others. Really buggin me. Also for how detailed that back section is.. this section is in need of the same love. I'm sure you were going to get to it.. just sayin it to make sure :P Keep it up!
  • kimmokaunela
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    kimmokaunela ngon master
    @Temporal Drift Thanks!

    @chriszuko Thanks for feedback. You are right about that rim. There should be enough segments but I think textures are doing some trick also. I fix all the textures so hopefully that is solved now :)

    I did pretty much whole weekend this project with about 4 hour sleep. A small marathon I think :) I tweaked almost everything, finding more space looking lighting, fixing material definitions, modeling new stuff, making better hierarchy in Marmoset and organized stuff in max also. I also learned a lot about Substance Designer. There are still a lot to fix and now I can start modeling those small things that is the best part! I think I will keep some time of and let my brains format them self :)

    84if.jpg
    ero6.jpg
  • CreativeHD
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    CreativeHD polycounter lvl 6
    Looking really cool! Great job!
  • J0NNYquid
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    J0NNYquid polycounter lvl 5
    Don't mind me, just drooling on my keyboard.....Thi is really well done. Only crit I might have is in that last image, the wall on the right. The normal map looks a bit noisy for me, if it's concrete it makes sense, but the shiny/glossiness of it leads me to believe it's another type of material. Only real gripe, otherwise, this is stunning.
  • Kitty|Owl
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    Kitty|Owl polycounter lvl 3
    My crits would be (i make lists and i can be quite blunt so please don't take offense)

    * the materials, it is currently one big lump of metal shaped into a capsule. which is making the entire scene one big grey mass. It is a space capsule right? so people floating around would be bashing into stuff all the time, your environment needs padding so they don't knock themselves out constantly.
    Also worth noting metal is heavy, they are going to focus on using lighter weight materials with a frame of metal.

    *having varying materials will also reduce noise and allow you to pick out the key areas like the piping.



    * here are both images desaturated with their histogram.

    5JhyYJa.jpg


    DkRunrn.jpg


    As you can see from the histograms both images barely use the entire range, whilst your images are certainly low key (if that is the intention), low key photographs usually still use the entire range with the light in the image picking out the focal point.
    it is also worth pointing out that there is way too much black in the image (0,0,0). you want the histogram to slope down towards the far left so there is a minimum level of black.
    IBL's and ambient light is particularly good at sorting this problem.
    if you want more contrast, do it in post with a grading pass or tonemapping adjustment.

    If you look at modern film plates before they are graded they often look flat and washed out. This is because instead of going for the full 'mood' of a scene they have exposed it with the most amount of detail they could obtain, so when they then add the grading and tone-mapping in post and keep as much detail as possible. it also makes it easier to integrate the VFX into a shot.

    a few examples:
    http://i.imgur.com/bowo63G.jpg

    http://rubenkremer.nl/images/content/2013/8/24/5650-test1-hd.jpg

    http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/456/272/456272262_640.jpg

    it is worth noting that most modern day game engines have the ability to alter the tonemapping settings and add a LUT to the scene and it is worth doing these when finalizing a scene (even if some argue because you have full control over the colour and contrast of everything unlike film you do not need to do this, the counter argument to that being that it is faster and easier and cheaper to do it in a similar fashion to film).



    * like the others have mentioned some of the materials need a little work with regards to normal maps etc. plus the seam bug visible in the top right of the images

    * I'd restrict the reflections onto one or two axis (so sharp gloss/polished material) XYZ. reflections everywhere just makes noise.

    *I have no idea what the metalness map does? either-way I'd try ditch metalness and roughness if possible and move to Albedo(Diffuse), Normal, Gloss and Specular. This is because these are the standard maps for most PBR pipelines i have come across and if this is a portfolio piece showing your own understanding of such a pipeline the more inline with the standard the better for you.


    I hope this hasn't overstepped the mark.
  • EarthQuake
    Roughness is essentially the same thing as gloss (though sometimes mapped to an inverted scale). Metalness is pretty common, for example UE4 uses metalness, not specular maps, so I would say its very important to understand how to use both and the differences between the two.
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