Steam box hardware announced at CES
mod
So, looks like info on the steam box hardware is coming in.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-07-several-steam-machines-specs-and-prices-revealed
Seems like basically pre-built PCs with huge variance in hardware, running steam OS?
I'm a bit surprised to see such variance in the hardware, if you're going to go through the trouble of building "steam specific" boxes, why so much variance? I guess its more about getting vendors to pre-install steam OS than anything else?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-07-several-steam-machines-specs-and-prices-revealed
Seems like basically pre-built PCs with huge variance in hardware, running steam OS?
I'm a bit surprised to see such variance in the hardware, if you're going to go through the trouble of building "steam specific" boxes, why so much variance? I guess its more about getting vendors to pre-install steam OS than anything else?
Replies
I could understand it a bit more if you had like, 4 or 5 variants and just said "Here's Steam Box v1-v5, ranked in order of performance. Take your pick!" But with so much to choose from, it pretty much necessitates some research, and that same basic knowledge is really just one small step away from building your own.
...then again, I guess the fact that they're running the Steam OS could actually save you some money vs building yourself, I always hate forgetting to calculate costs of a new Windows license with a new build.
Yeah, from a consumer standpoint I have no idea why I would buy one of these vs build my own, when I need to have a fairly good grasp of hardware to decide which is best for me.
The Steam Machine isn't for you - it's for the person that would buy an Alienware or other expensive gaming computer.
Right I get that, but I still fail to see how the "steam box" concept simplifies the process for the target demographic, if your hardware choices still have a huge amount of variance.
From the mindset of the target demo, I still have two really big questions with this:
Why buy a steam box over a regular pc with windows?
Which steam box is right for me?
I guess this is more of a marketing concern for valve than anything.
Console players who are unable to figure out how to play papers please.
There's a big crowd of people out there who have played quite the amount of console games but have never ever touched pc games, and the steam library is huge!
It's pretty much all the people who always wanted to try pc games but have no idea where to start.
That being said, I'm a bit disappointed by a couple things:
First, I would have preferred Steam to have laid out some spec requirements, to limit the variations in hardware. That's one of the benefits of consoles, to have consistent hardware. And I don't mean limit it to one CPU/GPU combination, but at least set a standard for a low, medium, and upper range device. And if a manufacturer deviates from that 'standard', then they will be responsible for incompatibilities.
The other disappointment is the pricing. Most of those boxes are WAY to expensive. Only 3 of them were in the range of the PS4/XBOne. The Falcon Northwest goes up to $6000?!
Earthquake: the point of having these, rather than building your own, is to have a small/slick device, to fit into your entertainment center. If you want a full size PC (or micro ATX) in your entertainment center, that's your choice. You can still build one, and put on SteamOS
Sure, I understand the concept and the appeal. However, its the execution/reality of the situation that seems confusing to me.
^^ Basically this. I think valve is in a great position to greatly simplify the hardware situation in pc gaming for both developers(yay!) and consumers. But I don't see that at all here, all I see is a bunch of random vendors selling htpcs with wildly varying hardware running valve's homebrew OS. Some of these boxes don't even dedicated GPUs.
If there were some performance standards that were clearly documented and easily understood, again for both developers and consumers that would be awesome. Maybe there is and we just haven't seen it yet?
Since their builds will have next to no "future-proofing" these same people will think that they'll have to buy another $1000+ machine in a few years.
What I'm not getting is, what exactly is the purpose of paying just as much money for a prebuilt machine just to play a more limited amount of steam games? If I have no idea how to build a machine and I wanted to play PC games, why wouldn't I just pay the same price for a machine running Windows to get access to the full PC library?
As for the streaming feature, it seems like that will become standard within the Steam client itself as the beta update from a couple of weeks ago included some streaming options in the user interface (I was logged into Steam on my desktop and signed in on my laptop and saw my entire desktop collection was already installed but it didn't let me launch any games).
That gives access to another option for console gamers who want couch gaming. Buy prebuilt gaming machine, put it by desk in room, then put shitty laptop in living room, connect controller through USB, use HDMI cable to connect laptop to TV, play games on TV.
Regardless of all that, I always thought the issue was about cost. I could pay $500 for a console and have something that will run every game fluidly for many years to come. Even if games run at 30 FPS, it will still feel smooth thanks to the input delay on the controller itself.
Anyway, I'm sure time will tell if this thing is successful or not but I just don't get it haha.
i think it may be partially a marketing strategy by Valve to get even higher user base in the PC platform and somehow become the monopoly in PC gaming. in the end, it feels like Valve wants every PC gamer with any hardware be using steam to get all their PC games.
eventually Valve may want PC gamers to get hooked on steam OS rather than any specific steam hardware. hardware is just the vehicle for their main baby.
whether that is a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen...
This honestly is what I feared most about steam boxes, and I don't even see an 'official' box from Steam, so there is absolutely NO control over the hardware. We'll see how this plays out, but for now, I'm out.
I'm looking forward to seeing more slim form factors for ITX PCs, I'm sure case manufacturers are going to compete a lot more giving people that want to build their own "Steam Box" more options.
Valve also said they're still considering building their own.
That said, you have to admit, some of those cases are quite nice...even for desktop gaming and or use.
The alienware is certainly deserving of the praise...
Would you guys rather have one of those on your desk than a large tower or notebook? I kind of like how "small" and less power hungry computing hardware is getting, whether it be for games or just desk top use.
So why have a 2000 box that plays just games? Isn't the point of PC GAMING THE MASTER RACE because they do all those other things windows machines do over consoles?
So basically you are taking PC Gaming and dumbing it down.
ALSO... not sure how many people have ever had a high end graphics card in a tiny case. Heat is a huge factor and I see a lot of these melting down....
Not sure if you have been following along but... you can use these machines as computers. They come with the SteamOS already installed, and it has its own desktop interface as its build on top of a linux kernal. Additionally, if you wish you could install (or dual boot) to windows as well. Pop in a keyboard and mouse and you have a computer. In fact these could easy be used on any desk in place of a larger desktop computer or laptop. So its hardly "dumbing it down". I would argue its increasing accessibility to PC gaming as well as PC gaming in the living room.
Dont forget about gaming laptops. Many gaming notebooks have high end GPUs in them and do not overheat or melt down. Just because a box is small doesnt mean it will generate more heat or not have the ability to dissipate that heat.
A lovely example is the Alienware 18 gaming notebook which has two Nvidia GTX780s in SLI mode.
Heat inside these steamboxes wont be an issue unless the manufacturer doesnt know what they are doing.
Console gamers are happy with the simplicity of a console. Why would they buy another box?
PC gamers are happy with upgrading/customizing their existing hardware, why would they buy another box?
Maybe there is a market for this? I guess I just don't see it quite yet.
Steam Box is a fully hardware unlocked, customizable, scalable "console".
Okay, now the explanation:
Valve knows there are a LOT of PC gamers who use gamepads because of how often "Big Picture Mode" is used on Steam, (they can track that) so they know there's a market for people who play PC games as if on consoles.
Could Valve make their own console? Sure, but that would be foolish because Steam and all of its titles are PC native and run on standard PC hardware. It's MUCH more intelligent to use the existing PC market as a vehicle for their idea. Thus, they release Steam OS for free and allow anyone to use it as they like. Open source platforms with hardware backing tend to work very well in the computer world. (Like Google's Droid OS.)
Why would you buy/build a Steam Box?
- Access to mods.
- More comfortable gaming experience. (For some.)
- Steam sales are common and insane.
- Backward compatibility.
- Most AAA console titles also appear on PC (including controller support), with exception to exclusives.
- HUGE indie scene.
- Upgradable hardware.
- Can function as a media center PC, on your TV.
- No fee for premium service or online multiplayer. (E.g. PS+ or Live Gold)
- Privately backed version of Linux (If you prefer Linux)
In four years, when mid-grade PC's have caught up to consoles for hardware, buying or making one of these will make more sense than a console.
edit: I don't think they're really trying to "dumb down" PC gaming because they're not taking anything out of the user's hands. If anything, they're encouraging you to tinker with the product since it's all open source. However, if you buy a pre-built Steam Box and the manufacturer has altered Steam OS in some way, like how Amazon modified Droid for the Kindle Fire, then yes, that would be dumbing down PC gaming, which could certainly happen.
The thing is though, that's just a list of reasons to use a PC of some sort for gaming. I don't see that any of those are reasons to buy a "Steam Box" instead of a Windows PC with Steam installed. And that's what has me confused. In the immediacy of the moment, the Steam OS, to my knowledge, does not have nearly the capabilities or compatible library of software that Windows has - and since most of these "Steam Box" PCs are from companies that also sell pre-built Windows PCs for the same price...really, what's the point?
If the point was to simplify buying a gaming PC, no fussing around with extra crap not relevant to gaming, just necessary hardware and a simple gaming focused OS without the need to research hardware components, then I'd say alright - I get it.
But this is just, "Here are a bunch of PC specs. This is the same information you'd look at if you were to look at any other prebuilt PC. It costs about the same, has fewer capabilities, but is Steam so it is more gaming then a regular PC." It doesn't really simplify anything, it gives you a PC for what looks to be about the same price as a Windows PC, requires the same basic research prior to investment, and that's about it. I guess maybe a consistently smaller form factor would be a plus for some, but...is that all?
Really I feel like this has very little to do with the selling of "Steam Box"s, a Steam console, and a lot to do with simply getting more people using Steam/PCs for gaming. Which I'm fine with, Steam is great, just seems like a lot of fuss.
I see where you're coming from Two Listen, and honestly I'm surprised at the price points too. I really think it comes down to comfort. The market's definitely there. It's certainly the minority of the console and PC markets, but it's there. (Like the green party.)
I don't think Valve expects to make money directly from Steam Machines, their income is from sales over Steam itself. What they've done though, and this is said to both manufacturers and hobbyists, is "We know you've had this idea of a PC that works like a console. Here's an OS and a controller to help you get there, do what you will." I don't know what the controller will cost them, but the OS is relatively cheap since they can just leave it on a server. From that point on, Valve's essentially out of the picture. If they make their money back from increased Steam usage then great. If they don't, who cares? They own freaken Steam, they're not in trouble. It's almost exactly what Google did with Droid.
I think manufacturers see a brand, a platform, and a chance to make money if done right. Most of their communication with Valve was probably over putting the logo on the box. I agree though, the market for buying something like a Steam Machine is razor thin right now. When this console generation starts to age, it might be a completely different story. (It's too bad Valve didn't do this two years ago.)
What makes the sale for me is that Steam OS can stream games from a Windows PC. So if you already have a decent Windows PC, you can build a cheap little Steam Machine that fits next to your TV to use as a streaming device. The only reason I might look at a pre-built Steam Machine is for the ability to turn it on wirelessly, but even that can be built into a homemade PC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FW78IAfybI
The design is pretty damn unique although I'll probably never own one(if razer even goes ahead with this concept) since I have no problem installing new hardware and Razer products are always crazy expensive.
I still think there's no point paying for a steam machine, because we can build a better rig (mini pc/htpc) for much less money.
Another big issue i see seeing all the steam machines, is that they will be very hot.
Also if this is right, I don't know how you could make a cheaper PC yourself
CyberPowerPC - $499 and up
CPU - AMD/Intel Core i5 CPU
Graphics - AMD Radeon R9 270/Nvidia GTX 760
RAM - 8GB
Storage - 500GB
The cheapest R9 270 build I can come up with is about $650.
So I could just buy a low end box...sweet.
What the fuck is the point of a Steambox if it can't run any games? $500 for a streaming box is a bit much.
"499 and up....",. don't forget that.
if the price in europe is 500 (1$=1 sadly)... for a build with an i5 4570:
i5 - 150
mobo gigabyte - 60
8GB Ram - 60
500GB 2.5"- 40
GTX 760 - 200
case - 25-40
Psu corsair 500w - 50
600 or less for the intel build, and we would have a better itx case with a better air flow, so figure yourself...
With the amd build:
AMD A8-5600k - 78
mobo Asrock AMD A75 - 68
radeon 270x OC - 173
and for the amd build: ~500 depending of the case and components.
BTW, all these prices include a VAT of a 21%, so all taxes are included.
Don't get fooled man.
Different Hardwarespecs is a PC drawback and Steam Machines has it too.
Consoles have a "safe" half decade bevor a new generation arises.
Console players need this "safe" feeling and with Microsoft and Sony they have many exclusive IPs. Valve announced they dont restrict the Steam Machine in this way.
Looks more like a Barebone PC with a Linux as Multimedia Center, nothing new only that with Valve a "bigger" player is on the field.
I went on a quest to build the cheapest yet capable gaming computer based on similar specs offered by these steam machines, I even picked a heatsink that probably wouldnt do a good job but cost significantly less.
The total came to $552 USD.
Then if you have to consider the cost of the controller thats bundled with it. Lets just assume its priced around the same as the Xbox One and PS4 controllers.
So add $60.
Then consider the cost of bluetooth or extra cables...lets down down to $10.
You get a total sum of around $622. If you consider that the case you would get would not be as good looking or custom made as the SteamMachine cases, and calculate the cost of such cases, it would cost more.
Not a bad deal when you consider their base price is $499. Again dont forget they said the controller comes with the machine.
Also... These steamboxes only use Linux, and as far as i know most games on steam are not operational under Linux. I think the last one i saw that came out was Metro Last Light. So i would be skeptical about this.
Anyways... i was considering getting one of these instead of upgrading my pc... but now i'll just upgrade my pc and be happy for the next decade.
That being said, I'm now thinking the reverse. If I find a sale on one these, at a good price, I may get one to use as my PC. I'm at a point where I rarely upgrade my PC, and I'd rather have the desk space. I might replace my PC with one of the compact ones (like that alienware one), and strap it to the back of my monitor.
We can download the steamOS already, and for streaming, we don't need to invest too much money.
Put a steam logo on a PC Build... and you will sell PCs as expensive or more than those computers with an Apple. The companies are crazy as hell. I don't see a good future for these steam machines.
But I do feel that Valve could have done better, too. They don't need to explicitly regulate things, but they certainly could have made a list of recommended items. The biggest issue with PCs is hardware variance and the resulting driver incompatibility. The largest issue with consoles is outdated hardware. The middle ground is to have half a dozen configurations that get replaced every year. As in, every year the weakest gets deprecated , #5 becomes #6 ... #1 becomes #2 and a new best machine is introduced. Kind of how Apple does things.
I'll personally be building a HTPC as a next computer (late 2014, probably), and it'll blend in nicely with living room hardware, with a case something like this:
This sounds like the exact same stuff that goes around whenever someone asks for advice on buying a Mac. The spec sheets come out and people crow about how they can build a better machine for less money and, as with those Apple threads, that's not the point, really.
Warranty replacement on motherboard 3 times and video card was at 5 or 6. I can't remember. In the end they gave me my money back.
As for them including a r9 in a steam machine for lower than what the actual card costs seperate. I call bullshit. There is no way someone is going to sell a 600 video card for under 400 (counting costs of other hardware in the machine itself)
If I want something small, for my entertainment center, I'd probably just buy a laptop, for less money, and install SteamOS. At least THEN, it would be portable, if I wanted to take it on a trip.
Take that away and yup, they're PCs. Was that really a secret to anyone?
If there's going to be a "standard", it'll probably be par with the PS4 and Xbox One since that's where multi-platform titles need to be. It's expensive now, but it'll get cheaper.
edit: I wouldn't be surprised if Valve officially endorses one as the "true" model, like how Google endorses the Nexus which is made by Samsung, but there are a lot of ways you can reach performance requirements when building a computer. A standard also wouldn't have to be optimal, just minimal to run a game at say 30fps.
Which is funny since Valve is so against Windows, yet Dell is partly owned by Microsoft.
Yea, but its Razer. Having had to work with their hardware at a unnamed large convention, their mice and keyboards failed all the time.
I'd imagine that their modular PC design would eventually be picked up/cloned by other companies some time in the future though.