Monthly Noob Character Challenge Discussion
polycounter lvl 11
So, let's give it a try guys. As it was suggested by almighty_gir 3 different subjects will be submitted and the community will choose their favorite.
As soon as there's is enough votes to decide which subject is the most popular the WIP thread will be created and the art dump will start!
For the fist time, I will pick the themes but later on, if you have an idea or a specific concept that you would like to to see next month in the challenge, submit it here!
Also, for simplicity, I think that it would be easier for everyone if the challenge started at the beginning of the month. So for the first one we have the choice; we either wait until January the first and start with the new year's good resolutions, or we can start it right now as soon as there is enough votes and end it at the end of December.
What do you think: simple characters for the end of December or a full month of awesomeness starting in January?
Personally I think that we already can run a mini noob challenge until the end of the year and then start the real thing. It would be a sort of beta test challenge in order to check if things work in the way we are doing it.
As soon as there's is enough votes to decide which subject is the most popular the WIP thread will be created and the art dump will start!
For the fist time, I will pick the themes but later on, if you have an idea or a specific concept that you would like to to see next month in the challenge, submit it here!
Also, for simplicity, I think that it would be easier for everyone if the challenge started at the beginning of the month. So for the first one we have the choice; we either wait until January the first and start with the new year's good resolutions, or we can start it right now as soon as there is enough votes and end it at the end of December.
What do you think: simple characters for the end of December or a full month of awesomeness starting in January?
Personally I think that we already can run a mini noob challenge until the end of the year and then start the real thing. It would be a sort of beta test challenge in order to check if things work in the way we are doing it.
Replies
Also, are we going to be working off of the same concept picture like the environment noob challenges or are we going to just have the subject to base our concept and model on? My apologies if I just missed something
At first I thought that starting with a concept would be it, but now it seams way more complicated (we need a concept and the consentment of the author to use it) And a concept would restrain the creativity you can put into your work, which isn't always good imo. But it also a good way to just dive right in and start modeling the character while having a good idea where to go.
So both are kind of great and I imagine that we could do both. Submitting a general idea of the theme at first and then adding an optional concept reference if there is one. Or if there is a badass concept we could find a corresponding general theme for those who want to start from scratch.
Hell we can even start a special 2D thread for the concepts in the same way we do it here. That way we fuel in an idea the 2D artist in the other thread deliver a bunch of awesome art and then we select the most popular one and start a modeling it in here.
The possibilities are endless!
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Heck maybe we could have multiple concepts like the top 3 most voted for or something.
Anyway still stoked that this is happening
agreed, that's how it works for the environment challenge. Character design & character modeling are two separate skills.
I agree. I think one of the things that make the enviro thread so great is that the concept is provided. Sure, not everyone will be as excited about the chosen concept, but I think the benefits will outweigh this negative.
For starters, I don't think its common to work from your own concepts in a professional studio environment. Using concept art specified for the challenge will help some (such as myself) to get used to this arrangement.
Secondly, not many people are both great concept artists and 3D artists, especially if you are a beginner. I think we will see much more quality work come out of these challenges if we agree to use high-quality concept art.
And finally, having several artists working from the same concept, will encourage a lot more collaboration and sharing of technique. The potential for learning from others here will be much greater.
Just thought I'd voice my support for specified concept art. I'd like to hear what others think about this. Happy to participate either way.
if you're a noob, designing your own character from scratch is just throwing another variable into the mix. A bad character designed that is modeled well is just as bad as a great design modeled poorly.
So if any of you guys have any piece of art related to the themes up there, be my guest, drop it in here people!
After all, that's why this thread is for.
I mean for learning sure It is great if you don't plan to stick this in your portfolio or you do and so do a lot of other people participating then It is like oh another one of these.
Also what if I wanted to make a robotic Buddhist hunter? That seems interesting to me, also while I was reading this thread I thought why not have this month to come up with a concept design while everyone is waiting to get started in January and grow artistically instead of losing steam while waiting.
My .02 Cents, this is still interesting either way you swing it.
(Updated:)
To add why not also critique each others concepts and explain why this is bad and that is bad, or what makes this good and what doesn't or what can make it better so you also again grow by looking for the signs of a bad design and also gain in understanding what makes a good design better.
It's already asking a lot for people to finish a project in the month, throwing variables in there is going to create some chaos.
Whatever, just my 2 cents.
To quote Alex from the Challenge 14 concept thread
"Post what you'd like to do next month, remember to vote by re-posting the picture of the concept you vote for. Anyone can vote even if you are not in the challenge. Add concepts you like too! "
I started looking for monks then just sorta veered down a concept hole.
and
Pretty much sums it up for me! Everyone doesn't need to make the exact concept and I'm sure a lot of people will make their own unique design decisions. Excited to see how this turns out!
On the topic of the concept, having taken part in some of the Environment challenges, I'd say do as they do it.
At the end of the month there's still quite a lot of difference in the execution of the piece even if they're all based on the same concept. Everyone still interprets the concept as they see it, so they do look similar overall but there's a good variety amongst them.
This makes the challenge even more fun imho, you can learn a lot from seeing how others are tackling problems and some of the thing you might find problematic won't be for someone else.
This and since none is forcing any particular specs on the challenge you could do it in 1000 polies with handpainted textures or go 80k with three 2k maps.
Also it's to be considered the time frame allowed. Probably not everyone taking part in the challenge will be able to complete a full character in a month. So having one concept is going to help on the critics/paintovers and less experienced people might get along the tasks faster by looking at other's work.
TLDR; In the end it'll be fine and more useful on the learning side, imho, if everyone is following the same concept.
EDIT: Also i'm quite liking the last concept Justin posted
GameArtisan will have Comic Challenge something on the 1st of Jan anyway. So, let's keep noob learning something for us and different from challenge. ;P
Been wondering when a character version of the environment challenge was going to pop up!
I like this one.It would be hard to me get chest done
good start justin!
Those are my 2 faves. Ans also, you are probably right about the whole concept thingy. I'm gonna try to find something about a hunter since it's the one that gets the biggest part of the love you give to all this guys!
But it's great that you guys are starting dropping pics and debating all this! I'm so happy this is going to be a real thing!
it has a wide variety of surfaces and should be a good exercise.
make sure to ask for permission though!
http://cghub.com/images/view/718683/
Everyone creating from a single reference is definitely the best way to go as it lets us see how others approach the same problems.
However, It would be nice to have the freedom to design to a theme if we wanted?
yeah, this for January.
I'm going to participate as well, I've never done a current gen character and pretty much open zbrush once every few years to see what's new.
Taken directly from the Environment challenge. I think it actually works well for the most part as it doesn't limit polycount or texture sizes. More about just making good art that is challenging for you to create within the time frame.
Things to add, in my opinion:
- Make sure your work is rigged and posed, maybe? Final pieces shouldn't be in stock t-poses as it's pretty boring.
- Final product needs to be in a game ready mesh. Show off your Zbrush sculpts if you have them, but they're not a final piece.
- I think the other rule they have is "Don't use dDo."
I feel like the rules need to be fairly open ended for this challenge. I mean, what would we limit especially with PS4 and XB1 spec into account? The cool thing is, someone could take the concepts and run with a super low 2k tri limit for a handheld game, or 50k+ for PS4. Textures could be diffuse hand painted on a single 512 or multiple 4096 with a full shader network in marmoset 2 or UDK. I do feel that people should say up front what their goal is within their posts so they can get a proper critique. There is so much range, I think the "challenge" is more about learning new workflows and honing your craft.Most people will probably resolve to automagic rigging anyway if they can find one.
I personally will rig my characters. For the sake of using various physical attachments on them (rigid bodies, Cloth).
I'm going to use Substance Designer anyway ;p. I must get finally hand on it and learn it, I have a feeling it's going to be big thing after Substance Painter will be released.
Like, maybe; NUMBERS are examples !!! I just pulled em out of ma arse !
Option 1: Mobile Game Budget: 1000 Poly, 512 Diffuse.
Option 2: Mid Res: 8k Poly, 1024 Diff, Normal, Alpha.
Option 3: Next Gen: 30k Poly, 2048 all maps.
2. Create your own textures.
3. Final product should be posed and rendered in real-time.
4. Try your best to finish on time.
5. Post your work-in-progress in the designated Monthly Character Challenge thread.
6. Don't use dDo. (discuss?)
7. Select your budget and stick to it:
Mid Res: 8k Triangles, 1024 Diffuse, Normal, Spec, Alpha
High Res: 32k Triangles, Multiple 2048 Any Maps your Engine Supports
My votes for the concept art:
Edit: Rule 7, changed "polys" to "triangles" for clarity.
The rules are a really great idea and I belive that for a certain type of concept we should pick and adviseble polycount. I mean by that if we choose a cartoony little creature it would be less likely to see it in a next-gen (current-gen?) format than a mid/low one, isn't it? But in the end if one wants to push the limit further it should be ok, especialy with the PS4/XBoxOne being powerful enough to handle all kind of madness.
PS: Brandon.LaFrance, thanks for the recap dude, I think this goind to set thing straight pretty well.
PPS: For the dDo thingy, I belive that's it's ok to use such things as far as they don't become the center of your workflow. and by that I mean that you could enhance some textures by plugging all in dDo but in the end it should remain a bonus and not a whole workflow. Especially with characters.
PPPS: I see your
and raise with
However, I feel that some of the suggested concepts might be a bit too advanced for a "noob" challange...or maybe i´m thinking about it the wrong way.
And hopefully other people will tell you what to do, and how to best approach it.
I´m looking forward to see how this turns out!
also this one is kinda cool:
This on the other hand if more of the "dive right in" brute force stuff where you can try lots of new stuff and get a lot of feedback and advise from people who know what they are talking about. At least that's why I am here for (this and the fun of working on this kind of stuff) , but maybe I got it wrong.