I don't think The Foundry have the development staff or time to develop and maintain a platform-specific viewport just for games developers on the PC.
The RayGL and/or Preview viewports are pretty damn fast if you want to view things with all the bells and whistles on.
That said, it would be nice to see gloss maps (or, rather roughness maps in MODO terms) and some other stuff inside of the viewport and The Foundry folks mentioned they're working on some viewport enhancements for 801.
MODO Steam Edition is not meant to replace MODO as a professional tool for your game development. It is intended to allow for the creation of workshop items."
"MODO Steam Edition will have the ability to export to a limited FBX. It is limited to non-commercial use outside of creating and selling items in Steam Workshops.
Re Animation: Currently there's not a lot that you could do with custom animations within the context of Steam Workshops but we are evaluating adding some Animation capabilities as we progress with this edition of MODO. For now it's primarily targeted at creating game items for DOTA 2 and other Source engine games."
So I guess this is tied to directly to the steam workshop games and mainly DOTA2/TF2. So no commercial use outside of that.
The restrictions:
"there's a lot there in the MODO Steam Edition. All the modeling, sculpting, painting and baking features as an example. Things like dynamics, animation, rendering, layout, python scripting, 3rd party plugins and kits are not supported."
Your chances of getting anything accepted into Defense of the Ancients are very very very very slim. Most likely you would never see your work in the game.
Just wanted to jump in real quick. I understand the frustration with the export limits but we are evaluating the feedback from communities like this. The 7k limit is really because this is oriented toward DOTA 2 and TF2. We are looking at other games/engines for the future and we want to find a way to give you guys what you want/need while also protecting the value of full Modo which in my very biased opinion is a pretty sweet deal for a full featured 3D animation program. However, I do want to reiterate that we are listening to the feedback and there is more to come down the road.
Love to know your thoughts on the capabilities of Modo Steam in this context.
I and some other folks are going to be doing some WIP'S in the near future in the hopes that also helps to give you all some more info, show off the capabilities and receive feedback on the future of streamlining both Modo and Modo Steam Edition.
Just a side note. You can add custom animation to DOTA2.
But full version of modo also doesn't really support exporting bones and animations in FBX, so it's hard to complain about it ;p.
Just a side note. You can add custom animation to DOTA2.
But full version of modo also doesn't really support exporting bones and animations in FBX, so it's hard to complain about it ;p.
We just finished a new implementation of FBX 2013 and are commited to staying up to speed with future versions as well. The export of animations and bones is far better as of about a month ago. This is part of Modo 701 and Modo Steam Edition. We definitely need some more examples of this.
Given the limited nature of this release, I'm going to have to say that it is a pass. Having a greater number of 3D packages that are optimized for Source-engine exporting is a good thing. The Source engine has always been a bit of a pain to work with when it comes to the content pipeline. Having a few more reasonably-priced tools that play well with it would be wonderful.
As it stands this Modo release sounds a bit too limited, and a bit too focused on DOTA. A release focused on general Source-engine support would be better. Also, full animation support would be needed, as the animation tools in the Source engine are one of its strongest features. (all the way back to Half Life 2)
Given the limited nature of this release, I'm going to have to say that it is a pass. Having a greater number of 3D packages that are optimized for Source-engine exporting is a good thing. The Source engine has always been a bit of a pain to work with when it comes to the content pipeline. Having a few more reasonably-priced tools that play well with it would be wonderful.
As it stands this Modo release sounds a bit too limited, and a bit too focused on DOTA. A release focused on general Source-engine support would be better. Also, full animation support would be needed, as the animation tools in the Source engine are one of its strongest features. (all the way back to Half Life 2)
which in my very biased opinion is a pretty sweet deal for a full featured 3D animation program.
For those who are interested in Modo as a modeler though, the fact that it has animation is irrelevant, and the price hikes have been painful. You need to realise that there are indie companies for who the current price of Modo is way, way too much. They likely already have other software that they could update to the latest version for less, so that's what you're competing with.
I'd consider buying the Steam edition if it had scripting and less shitty limitations. Not really for work or freelancing, but just to fuck around with Modo every now and again.
How are the modeling tools in comparison with Max? I'm going to try it out anyway but figured more studios use Max so it would make sense to learn that rather than Modo for later on.... even so, the modeling tools in Modo look awesome :O
- Modifier stack. There are times when I really like having it.
- FFD modifiers. Nothing like that in Modo.
- Spline modeling. Nothing easier for wires and cables.
- Modifier stack. There are times when I really like having it.
- FFD modifiers. Nothing like that in Modo.
- Spline modeling. Nothing easier for wires and cables.
Other than that, I'd rather use Modo.
Agree on live edit splines. I'd rather go to Zbrush for my winding tubes.
Also CAT (char animation toolkit). CAT system should be THE standard. Wish it was sold standalone. If Pixologic gets an animation tool like that with standard dopesheet and curve editors it's gonna mess up the other guys big time (saleswise that is).
Agree on live edit splines. I'd rather go to Zbrush for my winding tubes.
Also CAT (char animation toolkit). CAT system should be THE standard. Wish it was sold standalone. If Pixologic gets an animation tool like that with standard dopesheet and curve editors it's gonna mess up the other guys big time (saleswise that is).
You can get Automatic Character System for modo. Although it doesn't have procedural animations, it's very handy automagic rigging tool
I know ACS (you have to pay for the plug-in though)|. But I still prefer CAT. Real riggers will dismiss it but for a non-rigger like me it's awesome. Why? Very short learning curve, walk cycle tools (kinda like biped but more user friendly), quick bone layouts, easy skin editing (with skin modifier). You think Blender's auto-rigger is great...wait til you use CAT.
I know ACS (you have to pay for the plug-in though)|. But I still prefer CAT. Real riggers will dismiss it but for a non-rigger like me it's awesome. Why? Very short learning curve, walk cycle tools (kinda like biped but more user friendly), quick bone layouts, easy skin editing (with skin modifier). You think Blender's auto-rigger is great...wait til you use CAT.
Actually I used it. It's nice, but I honestly never used it beyond prototyping, and skinning in Max is actually nightmare.
It's hadny tool, if want quick rig to test how your character will deform (i used it to test cloth sim).
But that have little to do with CAT.
Oh okay. Different Warren then. Was watching Modo tutorials by Notes and he said his name was Warren in one of his videos and mentioned he's on the Modo forum.
Just checking, cuz the videos are helpful. Thanks anyway.
Quick bump.
For the persons who actually tried the SE, is it possible to do something else than weapons with rigid skinning (can you create your full costumes and then export them to dota? I don't think I've seen any example so far)
Not really keen into buying a limited software that will limit you even more in the kind of props you can do...
Quick bump.
For the persons who actually tried the SE, is it possible to do something else than weapons with rigid skinning (can you create your full costumes and then export them to dota? I don't think I've seen any example so far)
Not really keen into buying a limited software that will limit you even more in the kind of props you can do...
I have probably clocked in around 150 or so hours so far with the steam edition. Wasnt a fan of modo but wanted to give it a shot, now I'm quite fond of it. That said, you can do other props as well. Weapons are just the easiest to pop out, and theres very little activity on the steam hub at the moment. Most of the artwork posted is from Greg who works at the Foundry.
Its still fairly limited with fbx exports and no animation tools, but you can do the basic stuff so far.
I think I might switch over to Modo entirely now. The steam edition was a trojan horse of sorts, once you get used to it, going back to other software feels a bit weird.
So, to be sure I did understand what you said, you can do full costumes, skin them and export them then ?
Sorry to be a bit thick
Im not sure what you mean by costumes but, if you are referring to set pieces that can be worn by Dota characters then yes, you should be able to do it. Its supposed to be set up so you can add any static mesh for dota characters. The only thing missing right now is animation and that might get added later.
hum, can you do the skinning for the pieces ? so for example the trousers deform when the character move. If it's limited to non deformable meshes, it's a bit useless IMO.
Decided I'd just go back to square one, nothing fancy, make a weapon and learn the tools from the ground up.
I started last night and right now I'm going to watch the sculpting vid. The lod1 and uv are done. I probably could have saved about 4 hours sticking to Max but I am learning a new program after all
My thoughts at this stage:
I like the modelling tools. If you have experience modelling and understand what tools do it's pretty easy to pick up. Tabs and windows are a bit different and take a little getting used to but it's not bad.
I NEVER hotkeyed in Max. I actually am now for simple tools like transform, scale,rotate.WASD... Nice thing is a mouse over of the tool buttons shows you what they are so it's quick to pick up.
I have looked at the inline help files, they aren't tuts but tell you how specific tools function. The bend tool was pretty strange just messing around, but after reading a paragraph it made sense.
uv mapping is much like Max, maybe better in some ways. Same tools for modelling/uv mapping. In Max they are the same but UV is in a pop-up window so there is back and forth.. In Modo it's just in a view, and the other view is 3d so it's pretty smooth.
You can still change views out to normal to pick polys, etc.. but don't need to.
I had a few crashes, or buggy 'lock-ups'. Use error maybe. Nothing major. The program starts instantly so that's cool. Max takes a minute.
I know from previous rigging attempts that doing multiple bones for Steam is weird. You have to select one bone at a time from the list (tedious) so the first one is 100% weight. I did figure out how to adjust weights/bones on my own without tuts but still wasn't getting the results to stick, so I need to look at documents I guess.
----
All in all modelling and uv'ing is pretty nice.
I had tried Blender before but it seemed I needed a tut just to select items, etc..
Modo is feeling much more logic, smooth and flowy for me at least.
I think it'll be worth the $150. Wish I had seen it one sale for $100 though
I NEVER hotkeyed in Max. I actually am now for simple tools like transform, scale,rotate.WASD... Nice thing is a mouse over of the tool buttons shows you what they are so it's quick to pick up.
Personally I think that's one of the rubbish bits for SE users. In the full version, the extent of hotkey assignment and interface customisation is vast. You can move/rearrange pretty much anything in the interface and assign hotkeys to do different things depending on viewport type, selection mode, currently active tool... pretty much anything.
It's generally not a great idea to deform the MultiRes mesh at a vertex level (i.e. using anything but the sculpt tools) - the mesh's sculpt data gets distorted and you end up with artifacts like that.
I think there's bugs in for that, but currently it's just an annoying limitation of the system
After spending more time with Modo SE, I can absolutely say I love it, though its obvious there is still a lot to master.
Anyways, this is the weapon I made for the Modo SE contest, which is pretty much "make a weapon with Modo Steam Edition, get votes and win a copy of Modo full or Mari". That was enough incentive to really dig into the application.
If you want to help a fellow Polycounter out, please vote up this entry on the Modo Steam Artwork tab. I could really use a full license of Modo, which has a great set of addons including that by Farfarer, as well as no export restrictions. Since I use substance designer, pumping out a high poly mesh for bakes is out of the question due to Modo SE restrictions. Vote up here: Contest Submission
Right now I need about 18 votes to break even with the competition. More and its a win.
Replies
The RayGL and/or Preview viewports are pretty damn fast if you want to view things with all the bells and whistles on.
That said, it would be nice to see gloss maps (or, rather roughness maps in MODO terms) and some other stuff inside of the viewport and The Foundry folks mentioned they're working on some viewport enhancements for 801.
And you can always submit requests for new features or enhancements using the bug report form - the more folk request a major feature, the more likely it is to be added.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=202604023
http://store.steampowered.com/app/244290
Here is the manual: http://modo.docs.thefoundry.co.uk/MODO-Steam/v1/
One developer had this to say: "
"MODO Steam Edition will have the ability to export to a limited FBX. It is limited to non-commercial use outside of creating and selling items in Steam Workshops.
Re Animation: Currently there's not a lot that you could do with custom animations within the context of Steam Workshops but we are evaluating adding some Animation capabilities as we progress with this edition of MODO. For now it's primarily targeted at creating game items for DOTA 2 and other Source engine games."
So I guess this is tied to directly to the steam workshop games and mainly DOTA2/TF2. So no commercial use outside of that.
The restrictions:
"there's a lot there in the MODO Steam Edition. All the modeling, sculpting, painting and baking features as an example. Things like dynamics, animation, rendering, layout, python scripting, 3rd party plugins and kits are not supported."
The price here in the UK is also $ = £.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/244290/discussions/0/648813728068635177/
Involves Maya LT and what artist feel is necessary for it to compete.
Now for the bad.
7k poly export limit on FBX files. /facepalm really?
Just wanted to jump in real quick. I understand the frustration with the export limits but we are evaluating the feedback from communities like this. The 7k limit is really because this is oriented toward DOTA 2 and TF2. We are looking at other games/engines for the future and we want to find a way to give you guys what you want/need while also protecting the value of full Modo which in my very biased opinion is a pretty sweet deal for a full featured 3D animation program. However, I do want to reiterate that we are listening to the feedback and there is more to come down the road.
For now if I could point you to these videos:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=202604023#190714
Love to know your thoughts on the capabilities of Modo Steam in this context.
I and some other folks are going to be doing some WIP'S in the near future in the hopes that also helps to give you all some more info, show off the capabilities and receive feedback on the future of streamlining both Modo and Modo Steam Edition.
But full version of modo also doesn't really support exporting bones and animations in FBX, so it's hard to complain about it ;p.
We just finished a new implementation of FBX 2013 and are commited to staying up to speed with future versions as well. The export of animations and bones is far better as of about a month ago. This is part of Modo 701 and Modo Steam Edition. We definitely need some more examples of this.
Well. There is still issue with axis conversion. When you change modo up axis to Z, fbx exported still have Y-axis as up.
File a bug on that, though - it's an easy fix, just a flag in the FBX file.
As it stands this Modo release sounds a bit too limited, and a bit too focused on DOTA. A release focused on general Source-engine support would be better. Also, full animation support would be needed, as the animation tools in the Source engine are one of its strongest features. (all the way back to Half Life 2)
As it stands this Modo release sounds a bit too limited, and a bit too focused on DOTA. A release focused on general Source-engine support would be better. Also, full animation support would be needed, as the animation tools in the Source engine are one of its strongest features. (all the way back to Half Life 2)
The problem is I can't just conver axis during importing FBX file to other apps (it's still messed up), neither I can change it during export ;/.
I reported that bug about 3 months ago. I thought that is easy fix to add axis option to FBX settings, since collada have it.
For those who are interested in Modo as a modeler though, the fact that it has animation is irrelevant, and the price hikes have been painful. You need to realise that there are indie companies for who the current price of Modo is way, way too much. They likely already have other software that they could update to the latest version for less, so that's what you're competing with.
I'd consider buying the Steam edition if it had scripting and less shitty limitations. Not really for work or freelancing, but just to fuck around with Modo every now and again.
- Modifier stack. There are times when I really like having it.
- FFD modifiers. Nothing like that in Modo.
- Spline modeling. Nothing easier for wires and cables.
Other than that, I'd rather use Modo.
Agree on live edit splines. I'd rather go to Zbrush for my winding tubes.
Also CAT (char animation toolkit). CAT system should be THE standard. Wish it was sold standalone. If Pixologic gets an animation tool like that with standard dopesheet and curve editors it's gonna mess up the other guys big time (saleswise that is).
You can get Automatic Character System for modo. Although it doesn't have procedural animations, it's very handy automagic rigging tool
I know ACS (you have to pay for the plug-in though)|. But I still prefer CAT. Real riggers will dismiss it but for a non-rigger like me it's awesome. Why? Very short learning curve, walk cycle tools (kinda like biped but more user friendly), quick bone layouts, easy skin editing (with skin modifier). You think Blender's auto-rigger is great...wait til you use CAT.
Actually I used it. It's nice, but I honestly never used it beyond prototyping, and skinning in Max is actually nightmare.
It's hadny tool, if want quick rig to test how your character will deform (i used it to test cloth sim).
But that have little to do with CAT.
Just checking.
Just checking, cuz the videos are helpful. Thanks anyway.
For the persons who actually tried the SE, is it possible to do something else than weapons with rigid skinning (can you create your full costumes and then export them to dota? I don't think I've seen any example so far)
Not really keen into buying a limited software that will limit you even more in the kind of props you can do...
I have probably clocked in around 150 or so hours so far with the steam edition. Wasnt a fan of modo but wanted to give it a shot, now I'm quite fond of it. That said, you can do other props as well. Weapons are just the easiest to pop out, and theres very little activity on the steam hub at the moment. Most of the artwork posted is from Greg who works at the Foundry.
Its still fairly limited with fbx exports and no animation tools, but you can do the basic stuff so far.
I think I might switch over to Modo entirely now. The steam edition was a trojan horse of sorts, once you get used to it, going back to other software feels a bit weird.
Sorry to be a bit thick
Im not sure what you mean by costumes but, if you are referring to set pieces that can be worn by Dota characters then yes, you should be able to do it. Its supposed to be set up so you can add any static mesh for dota characters. The only thing missing right now is animation and that might get added later.
Max to Modo user critique:
Decided I'd just go back to square one, nothing fancy, make a weapon and learn the tools from the ground up.
I started last night and right now I'm going to watch the sculpting vid. The lod1 and uv are done. I probably could have saved about 4 hours sticking to Max but I am learning a new program after all
My thoughts at this stage:
I like the modelling tools. If you have experience modelling and understand what tools do it's pretty easy to pick up. Tabs and windows are a bit different and take a little getting used to but it's not bad.
I NEVER hotkeyed in Max. I actually am now for simple tools like transform, scale,rotate.WASD... Nice thing is a mouse over of the tool buttons shows you what they are so it's quick to pick up.
I have looked at the inline help files, they aren't tuts but tell you how specific tools function. The bend tool was pretty strange just messing around, but after reading a paragraph it made sense.
uv mapping is much like Max, maybe better in some ways. Same tools for modelling/uv mapping. In Max they are the same but UV is in a pop-up window so there is back and forth.. In Modo it's just in a view, and the other view is 3d so it's pretty smooth.
You can still change views out to normal to pick polys, etc.. but don't need to.
I had a few crashes, or buggy 'lock-ups'. Use error maybe. Nothing major. The program starts instantly so that's cool. Max takes a minute.
I know from previous rigging attempts that doing multiple bones for Steam is weird. You have to select one bone at a time from the list (tedious) so the first one is 100% weight. I did figure out how to adjust weights/bones on my own without tuts but still wasn't getting the results to stick, so I need to look at documents I guess.
----
All in all modelling and uv'ing is pretty nice.
I had tried Blender before but it seemed I needed a tut just to select items, etc..
Modo is feeling much more logic, smooth and flowy for me at least.
I think it'll be worth the $150. Wish I had seen it one sale for $100 though
Crash crash crash buggy bug bug...
Personally I think that's one of the rubbish bits for SE users. In the full version, the extent of hotkey assignment and interface customisation is vast. You can move/rearrange pretty much anything in the interface and assign hotkeys to do different things depending on viewport type, selection mode, currently active tool... pretty much anything.
Yeah FOR REALZ doode!
currently having a weird issue sculpting.
Whatever brush I use, push/relax, etc... I seems to be extruding the square polys of my mesh a bit, not quite what I want
I'm getting the regular brush texture, but those added square edges suck.
I think there's bugs in for that, but currently it's just an annoying limitation of the system
Well Greg over at Steam group helped.
Basically copy pasted the mesh into a new file that had the same multi-res settings.
--
I'm new to sculpting anyway, and Modo so yeah
FUN
Mostly the tools are just more fluent than Max, plus sculpting and paint... Awesome!
Anyways, this is the weapon I made for the Modo SE contest, which is pretty much "make a weapon with Modo Steam Edition, get votes and win a copy of Modo full or Mari". That was enough incentive to really dig into the application.
If you want to help a fellow Polycounter out, please vote up this entry on the Modo Steam Artwork tab. I could really use a full license of Modo, which has a great set of addons including that by Farfarer, as well as no export restrictions. Since I use substance designer, pumping out a high poly mesh for bakes is out of the question due to Modo SE restrictions. Vote up here: Contest Submission
Right now I need about 18 votes to break even with the competition. More and its a win.
Here is the Dota 2 polycount thread for current and future workshop items I'll be working on: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130471
As well as the steam workshop submission page: Here