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Urinal Project (no, really)

polycounter lvl 7
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Utility polycounter lvl 7
Hey guys!
I've been working on a relatively simple prop and semi-scene. Basically, it's a urinal with divider and a partial roof/wall/floor. I've tried to keep the polycount low as well. Basically a game-ready piece for my portfolio, which has been lacking prop pieces. I'm pretty close to being done, but I'd like some C&C to add confidence to my work :P

JNXnLj4F
Urina2.png

Wireframes:
urinalraljfsg1.png
Around 2500tri's for the intact pieces (total, including walls and extras), extra 2477 for the broken variations.

Textures:
x5CiYWWV
Clockwise: Main texture diffuse; spec, Wall normals, Floor normals (I omitted the floors' specular and diffuse, as well as the main texture's normal map): 1024 each (probably will reduce to 512).

What'dya'll think? I feel like the porcelain of the urinals isn't totally finished, like the material definition isn't quite there yet. I think it might be the specular, since it's not quite as shiny in the way that porcelain has that slightly diffused shine to it. I'd love anyone else's opinion on that.

After this, I've got some lighting, post-processing, and rendering to do. Woopwoop

Replies

  • Vysuki
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    Vysuki polycounter lvl 9
    It feels like a game. By that I mean it doesn't feel real. This is because the walls and flooring are really clean, yet the urinals are dirty and unkept.

    Usually by the time the urinals look in that state there's pen and paint on the walls.

    The broken urinal looks flat because of your base geometry. You could look at breaking another section of it like the side area.

    Design wise I think the sections need to be closer, I've not seen a public toilet that roomy before but that could just be me.
  • leslievdb
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    leslievdb polycounter lvl 13
    making those screens between the urinals transparent kind of beat the purpose of them being there :P I`d try to get an obscured glasstype material/texture on those
  • praetus
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    praetus interpolator
    making those screens between the urinals transparent kind of beat the purpose of them being there :P I`d try to get an obscured glasstype material/texture on those


    naw man, it's a splash guard. :D!!

    I agree, for the amount of broken props and general grunge, the floor and walls are too clean. It looks like someone has been mopping the floors and that's it. Also, I would add some really gross water buildup/stains around the broken urinal. Something to show it has been leaking for some time.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks guys! Quick update-
    brtoketoilz.png

    I increased the amount of grunge there was on the floor/walls, and broke off a chunk of the urinal. I also broke up the broken separation chunk up more. I'm going to add the water stains on the wall when I've got some time, thanks for the idea praetus :D
  • NegevPro
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    NegevPro polycounter lvl 4
    Looks nice so far, good job! As a small critique, I'd try to make the urinals looks a bit more dirty/aged. Chances are, one of two things happened:

    1.) Somebody came in with a hammer and decided to be a jerk and ruin the janitor's day.

    2.) Somebody came in and had to take a tyrannosaurus shit and couldn't hold it in any longer so they just took a dump in the closest thing near them at the time (the broken urinal).

    I'm going to go ahead and assume situation #2 occurred.


    I don't know where I'm going with this, but anyway I assume the urinal would have to be rusted/pretty old to have shattered like that.

    The pipes could also be a bit dirtier, they look pretty untouched along with the top of the urinals. On a side note, you could probably turn this into a kickass environment rather than just a small prop piece. Maybe consider creating an entire bathroom? Anyway, good luck man, you're doing great right now!
  • Shrike
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    Shrike interpolator
    Looking fine so far,

    dont forget to put your signature! haha
  • praetus
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    praetus interpolator
    Another thing I noticed is you need a hole or pipe in the wall where that urinal is broken off. That water would have had to flow somewhere.
  • kevino025
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    kevino025 polycounter lvl 9
    I noticed something that bugs me in the spec map. Specifically for the stickers. It seems like you just make the texture black and white. That wouldnt really reflect like that in real life. It would be, either a solid color or just dirt/scratches on top of that solid color. Right now it looks like it would be a weird spec.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions! I've pretty much used all of them, and will be posting a *real* update soon...but first- anyone know why I have these pesky seams on my meshes? They're all lightmapped, and I've already bumped their shadow rez (256!). The textures are pretty clean across the way, much like how I'd do a tiling texture. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the normal map has the bevelled edge from the High rez model, and the light's bouncing off that. Take a looksee:
    64hnoUCC

    Any suggestions? I swear I'm not just holding out so I can get help on this ;P
  • silkroadgame
    Good,but still has place to modify,especially your textures.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Update- did some lighting.

    UrinalLitOne.png
  • amile duan
    Lighting's a bit dark,do you want to do a basement environment?
  • brandoom
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    brandoom polycounter lvl 11
    An environment can be dark, and not black at the same time.. lol. Lighten it up a bit.

    I think it would be worth your while to make an entire scene from this. You'd only need a few more small props. Toilet, sink, mirror, door.

    If you're anything like I was when I graduated [Durham] college, I rushed my 3d work just to get it done and on my portfolio. Take your time with this, and really apply yourself to making good art.

    Anyway, you're off to a good start here. Keep at it! :)
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Looking at the picture, it IS too dark! I thought it was too bright in the UDK scene I had it in, so I put it in a blank one. And when you can't see the flickering light effect, it's rather diminished... Hm. I'm considering making it into a scene, but the point of this initially was to be a simple prop exercise ;D But it might be a good idea, plus I've already got tiling textures...

    Damn it, I'll just go for it. Thanks guys!
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Hey guys, weekend update- Thank you all for the suggestions! I added a door, garbage, more litter, sinks, mirrors, stalls... oh! And a dryer.
    wVf2Z78L

    I'm having trouble with lighting the scene - any ideas? I'd like it to be dark enough that the one flickering light in the scene really has an impact, but in screenshots it comes across as too dark. If I brighten it up, it almost looks too bright. I'm thinking of playing with the scene's shadows in post-process next.

    Dark-
    30VnNoAN

    Light-
    vWXrqVbc

    Also, I should probably show it from another angle:
    KuoLbItn
  • Assassinaded
    Like the direction it's going, personally I'd rather see a flashing light than sparks ( don't know where these came from). I also liked the atmosphere of post number 12 more but I don't know which route your trying to go with it. All the stickers seem to be on the side facing away from the door. The walls are too nice, I'd say add in sharpie a few chips, scratches, possibly hole/ dent like someone punched it when they were angry? Maybe a floor drain as well probably two or three and show one clogged with water.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    I'm getting this really weird artifacting happening with a mesh- specifically, the broken sides of the urinal. When I load UDK, they look like they do in the picture. I literally replace them with the same model, and they look fine, even when I build lighting. If I play from editor, it's also fine. When I play on PC, however, they break again. Any insight? It's driving me mad D:

    WHYyyyy.png
  • sushi
    Not sure what could be causing your texture stretching. I'd rebuild that part of the model, could be a lightmap issue, also might want to post on the UDK forum.

    As for the lighting, I'd say you should give the lights above each urinal some focus. There's no real focal point - the scene seems clouded as a result.

    Looks like you have put some work into your assets, make them stand out.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Re-importing the model seemed to work, at least until the subsequent build. I've since added to and messed with the environment a bunch, and put it up on my site - check it out! http://gavinsarafian.com/watercloset/
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 8
    The lighting is to dark overall, and has no contrast in it. You have those florescent lights on the ceiling and upper wall but they do not look like they are emitting light at all. Try to find some reference to get better contrast in your lighting. Here is a screenshot from Splinter Cell Conviction that is similar to yours.
    SCC_Bathroom.jpg
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    @Bardler: Thank you so much! I am very not satisfied with the lighting. Almost everyone I've showed my project to has said that 'it's good' and that's about it. My problem is that I can't get crisp lighting and shadows, like in the scene you posted. My lights look great before I build (obviously), but I can't manage to get the lighting to read very well. I know that Lightmass (UDK) tries to accurately simulate lighting by bouncing particles, but I'm not sure how I can reign that in. Any suggestions? I'm going to mess around with it tonight.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    I messed around with the lighting for a bit, whatcha think? I'm not quite done yet but I think it's a little better. I at least fixed the problem with the puddle's reflection (grr vector transforms). UrLightingRedo1.png

    Edit: looking at it again, when I turn on the emissive lighting from the fixtures, the light they cast creates shadows on the edges of the meshes they're on. Hmmm...
  • brandoom
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    brandoom polycounter lvl 11
    Hey Utility, your scene is coming along well!

    Couple comments from me.

    I could be wrong, but I think you're getting seems in between your wall meshes because they don't have a 2nd UV channel. the 2nd uv channel is usually reserved for lightmaps. You can either create a 2nd channel in max/maya.. or i think UDK can generate one for you. Its been a while since i used UDK.

    The lighting is a little flat right now.. the walls in particular. But again, I think this is a lightmap issue.

    Your dof is pretty strong. Realistically, from where the camera is sitting to the back wall looks to only be about 30 feet, and yet i can hardly make it out. Dof is a great effect, but I think in such a small scene it should be used subtly.

    The urinal, its a little hard to see whats happening with it. I now its damaged from reading the rest of this thread. But someone seeing it for the first time might be confused. Try playing with it some more.. if worst comes to worst and you cant get it to a good state use a non-broke urinal.

    Anyway I think you're on your way to a great scene here! It has a lot of potential. Its just a matter of continuing to push it.. which is always the hardest part :P I did a quick paint over of where I think you could take this.

    GjrshOF.jpg

    Keep it up man!
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Brandoom: Holy crap! Thank you so much! One of the biggest things that was bothering me was lighting and visual interest, so thanks for the paintover! I already have a door done up too, so the small amount of things to add would be rather easy. Thanks again :D

    As for the lightmaps, I actually do have them. The way I do it may be causing a problem (not that I can think of why in particular)- in Maya, I create a second map, and use automap to quickly generate the lightmap. As for the DoF, I agree... I thought it would look cool at first, but it is a little intense!

    The next time I've got time (QA overtime *kaff*), I'll try to get all of these in. Thanks again! Feedback is part of why I love doing this work :)

    Edit: Also, I've noticed that the pieces with the broken lighting are changing their LODs (I think) as I move further away, but the distance is really small. Up close, they look fine, but from far away, the shadows on the edges are really visible.
  • ThinkKlinck
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    ThinkKlinck polycounter lvl 8
    I'm just gonna piggy back on what Brandoom said about pushing it, maybe put in some hanging wires near the close left light thats off. And the depth of field comment is spot on, I had a similar issue recently, you may want to try a very subtle fog (assuming udk) or just messing with your current dof values. Solid work so far, keep it up!
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Update time! OT and holiday stuff got in the way. Added graffiti, pipe, leaks, and adjusted the lighting bigtime. Any advice for the pipe? It kinda looks out of place now, and I can't get a really solid shadow to show up on it (I've got a spotlight on it that's assigned to a lighting channel which only the pipe, wall, and other bits around it are in).

    jV6BVONI

    Happy pre-new year, all!
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Update: Changed the size of the pipe, messed with lighting, played around with a LUT post-process. Better?

    urLightingLUT.jpg
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Update. I changed the pipe's geo, added a better texture, changed the amount of lights, fixed the lighting in the scene, changed some values/modified the grafitti. The seam issue with the wall meshes seems to be mostly gone now, but I may modify them in the future. Do liek?

    urNewLighting2.jpg
  • sushi
    Much improved

    It would be nice to see some reflections on that broken glass on the floor. Right now it appears to only be using a diffuse texture.

    I am unsure about the two light fixtures closest to the left of the image, are they supposed to be on or off, or is the bulb missing? Some fixtures appear to be emitting light and others are not.

    Shadows seem non-existent in many areas. Try increasing the lightmap resolution quite a bit. Also I'd suggest either turning on or increasing the quality of your ambient occlusion PP.

    Looking forward to more.
  • Obscura
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    Obscura grand marshal polycounter
    I like this! Here are a few tips. The easiest way to fix the seam issue on the walls would be that you should use one long wall instead of some short ones. You should enable the anti-aliasing because your picture is jagged, and not just on full size. Other post process effects would be also improving the looking of this. The not working neon shouldn't be black. Do you will fill the holes on the ceiling?
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks guys! Okay, so I merged the floor, wall and ceiling meshes, and gave them a new Lightmap. Is this better? I see some weird artifacting in places, but the seams along the walls themselves looks better. I also softened an edge on the wall. Is this more what you were suggesting, Obscura?

    SS6x3G2s

    Also, I messed around with a few things, and added a more 'broken glass' texture to the shattered divider and mirror.

    1i5JjpTQ

    I started to play with AO post-processing, but I accidentally REALLY screwed up, and ran out of time for tonight fixing it. It looks like I can juat add an AO node to my PP chain, but what about anti-aliasing? The only way it looks like I can add it is through the Uber post-process effect, but the one I have currently screws up the level if I turn it on (I'm also confused at that, since I thought I already had it turned on. I think my current look is actually from the world settings). I'm going to play with it more, but it's an update.
  • Obscura
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    Obscura grand marshal polycounter
    Hm. I don't see the wires and the lightmap uvs so I cant tell, but I meant one long wall/ceiling with no segments, and one long uv shell.With this, you couldn't get any seam because the wall/ceiling ligntmap uvs wouldn't be chunky so you couldn't get the padding/mipping issue (seams). I still see a few seams. Also, you shouldn't soften the normals on the ceiling, except if you add a little chamfer with at least 2 segments.

    For the post process - You should have copy the original and modify just the copied one, but I think now you also know this :D Yes the AA is in the Uber shader settings. To get back the original UT postprocess, you can install an another version of UDK, and simply save it out to the version that you use. Or you can ask someone to upload it. Or maybe its on the internet too.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Quick update- Merged the wall/floor pieces, created new UVs and a Lightmap for it- I think it looks TONS better. Thanks, Obscura!

    mTxywIu9

    Unfortunately, because of the way I set up the materials, the concrete parts at the top couldn't be done in the same way, because it doesn't use a real tiling texture (it's part of a bigger texture; I just made that section of it tile-able), so I'll have to live with a slight seam. I also have an odd tiny line running across it, but I'd rather move on sooner than continue to fix the tiny things. As for Post Processing, I'll be fixing that next! Stay tuned, y'all.
  • Odow
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    Odow polycounter lvl 8
    Oh ! That looks really nice :3, but something is definitely missing (In my "Omg men are so disgusting and it smell terrible yuurk" womanly opinion)!

    The floor is way too clean, where's the wet paper toilet and water puddle ? Or maybe these are only on the little girl room ?!

    Another small detail put those can change everything, you didn't put any drain. There's usually at least one need the toilet and near the sink in case there's a water problem !

    And for an ever more gross subway station toilet look, you cool add a little rat somewhere.
  • jddg5wa
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    jddg5wa polycounter lvl 8
    That looks really cool! I agree with Odow that the floor is a bit clean. Also I am sure if the place was broken and dirty there would be all kinds of life, bugs, mold, oh and what about some rust?

    Also one last question. How come only one urinal is broken and the rest look pretty new. Did someone come in and smash only one urinal and divider?
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    I think this is it! What do you guys think? I'm going to move onto my next project from here.

    UrinalFinal0.jpg
  • Chillydog3D
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    Chillydog3D polycounter lvl 9
    Needs more slime on the floor. People piss and shit all over things in public toilets.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    I should probably include a few other renders as well. There is a puddle, and more rubbish on the ground than the one picture I've posted shows-

    urinals2new.png
    urinals3new.png
  • brandoom
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    brandoom polycounter lvl 11
    Cool Gavin, this is coming along well. I think your lighting and shadows are looking pretty good now.

    The middle section of your ceiling looks like it has some lightmap uv issues/seems. I feel the grey dividers between urinals could use some detail/texture too as right now they look flat grey... can't really tell what its made of, metal, plastic etc.

    Its come along way though, nice work! :)
  • TonyNowak
    Add maybe a modeled dip in the floor with a drain and stuff! :D Maybe some broken, split, and missing tiles on the floor too, floor feels very plain.
  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 8
    I don't think the porcelain reads as porcelain but you have improved a ton on this since the first post! Keep at it man :D
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks guys! You've convinced me to keep working on it :P
    @Brandoom - They're supposed to be plastic, but I can't quite get the feel for them. I'll rework the texture and see if I can play with the spec (looking at examples n' stuff too).

    @TonyNowak - That's not a bad idea... would be fairly simple to do to break up the floor, at least with putting a dip in it for a drain (I'm thinking I could place a decal of a drain, and maybe put a puddle/watervolume over it).

    @Dimfist - Thanks! The porcelain has been bothering me, too! I can't quite figure it out. I think I'll try to pump up the spec on it and see if that helps.
  • Utility
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    Utility polycounter lvl 7
    Final update- it's not quite as 'finished' as I'd like it to be, but I've gotta move on. Thank you guys for all your helpful crits! It's pretty awesome that we have a community that really helps itself out.

    urinals1final.png?w=950&h=534
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