How to get around being a college drop-out?
polycounter lvl 12
Hey, I just discovered this board (Normally I just view/post on P&P) and there seem to be some pretty insightful discussions going on, so I wanted to see if anyone has any input regarding an issue that's concerned me for a while.
Basically I'm working on a portfolio to get into game art, like most other people here who aren't already pros. In another few months (hopefully) my portfolio will be done, and so far I'm pretty happy with my level of improvement.
The problem is, I kind of have a history of dropping out of school, and at 28, I haven't completed any post-secondary degree. I dropped out of university, where I took humanities, and then out of college, where I took 3D animation. Both have been for similar reasons (depression, lack of focus, personal problems, etc).
My question is, what would be a good way to address this with regards to resume/interviews? I don't want to say that I dropped out because that might reflect badly on my character. I like to think I've 'calmed down' since attempting uni/college, but employers might go 'oh this is the kind of guy that drops out school, he's clearly not reliable/mature'. Should I just omit any school history all together? That also seems kind of weird, since at my age it might cause people to assume I'm uneducated or something. Also if I end up working with someone I went to school with, and that fact comes out, employers may wonder why I omitted school history from my resume/inteviews.
Anyone been in a similar situation/has advice?
(In before 'your portfolio matters more than your degree in this field' since i assume this applies to people that still have *some* degree, rather than just a series of aborted attempts at school)
Basically I'm working on a portfolio to get into game art, like most other people here who aren't already pros. In another few months (hopefully) my portfolio will be done, and so far I'm pretty happy with my level of improvement.
The problem is, I kind of have a history of dropping out of school, and at 28, I haven't completed any post-secondary degree. I dropped out of university, where I took humanities, and then out of college, where I took 3D animation. Both have been for similar reasons (depression, lack of focus, personal problems, etc).
My question is, what would be a good way to address this with regards to resume/interviews? I don't want to say that I dropped out because that might reflect badly on my character. I like to think I've 'calmed down' since attempting uni/college, but employers might go 'oh this is the kind of guy that drops out school, he's clearly not reliable/mature'. Should I just omit any school history all together? That also seems kind of weird, since at my age it might cause people to assume I'm uneducated or something. Also if I end up working with someone I went to school with, and that fact comes out, employers may wonder why I omitted school history from my resume/inteviews.
Anyone been in a similar situation/has advice?
(In before 'your portfolio matters more than your degree in this field' since i assume this applies to people that still have *some* degree, rather than just a series of aborted attempts at school)
Replies
You are allowed to omitt anything that isn't relevant or help get you a position for the field you are trying to get a job in. I wouldn't put I worked at a fast food company or tech support for an ISP in my resume for a game art job.
So my concern would mostly be the lack of focus, personal problems, depression. You don't want to mention this, but to be successful you must overcome these issues. The fact that you dropped out is much less important than the underlying issues. As long as your artwork is up to standards, you manage to work with the team, and you'll be likely to stay around for 6+ months then you're just as good as everyone else.
I think you want to be honest - call it "personal problems", in case somebody asks, and have a way to show how you improved. Maybe you have a kickass folio and the fact you got it done, sticked to the job, paid attention to the art, proves that you have overcome your problems. This shows that a) these problems are no longer an issue and b) you have the strength to overcome difficult problems, which is a good thing. Don't try to sell it as a weakness, sell it as a strength. Unless you still suffer from your problems - then I'd work on the first. The games industry can be tough. But many people have been young, were insecure, had various issues. We all try to sell ourselves as these perfect awesome people everyone wants to hire, but few of us really are like that. Many people had difficult times some point in their lifes.
Good luck!
Personally I'd LOVE if people didn't give me that "wtf is he talking about?!?" look any more when I tell them to change the IP address for the P4 depot they're using
@Kwramm: Yup I liked to think the underlying issues have been more or less resolved (a combination of undergoing therapy, and generally just getting older and having more control over myself) I'm just not sure if potential employers will see it that way. Especially when the next guy could be just as good, and not have some weird history.
By the way, I'm probably gonna open a can of worms here, but, why does everyone say the games industry is so tough/bad? I know a few guys I went to school with that got jobs at major companies and seem to be having a pretty good time of it. (EDIT: in that I've personally contacted some of them via private message to see how it was going and they had no complaints about it)
About mentioning your "weird story". Don't, unless asked. Now that's just me but I appreciate honesty. And being able to face (your) problems and deal with them and conquer them is what we require from professionals. Not to mentoin, the other guy may have problems too, I might just not have discovered them when I interviewed him
But really, we're hiring humans, not robots. Everyone has a story. And people who don't have problems now can develop them later on - the sort of people where everyone say "he's always been such a nice guy!". There's no absolute security ever when hiring. All I want to make sure is that you fit in, act like a professional and get your work done.
Also, I'm still unresolved as to what to physically put on my resume under the School section.
If I say 'Blah Blah Blah College for 3D Whatever' should I just indicate that I attended but didn't finish? If so, it would make it seem like I went to school for 3d art (which I did, and learned a lot) but open up the issue of 'well why didn't you finish whats wrong with you etc etc'
OR leave out school altogether on resume ?
your portfolio will do the talking. post links.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125055
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124020
I see schooling as a bonus. And I don't really look for a degree. I look mostly for courses and anything else you did. E.g. if you're a junior with little job experience then it's really awesome if you mentored other students, or if you worked in a team, or if you learned stuff that you cannot teach yourself easily (e.g. life drawing, lighting - with real studio lights, acting, programming/scripting - because being technical in a technical industry is great, etc).
However , I wouldn't say that you dropped out of school in an interview. Just like ZacD says, just mentiion other reasons, financial or personal. In this industry, portfolio and mindset matters I'd say.
Get a folio into your sig :P
A good portfolio and decent interviewing skills will land you the job and the ability to produce equal/better quality art under production pressure while maintaining a professional attitude will keep you the job.
We didn't actually talk about what I did in school or why it mattered.
You're fine.
I would just start telling people you are self taught. leave that education stuff off your resume if you didn't finish it but it doesn't really matter either way.
I just wouldn't include a "school" section.
On that note, should I also fill out with shit like "Able to effectively bake normal maps using XNormal, familiar with effective modelling principles, know how to use photoshop, durable endoskeleton allows for fine motor function, etc etc" or is stuff like that kinda overdone. I see it a lot when I view more entry-lvl resumes, but it kinda seems to me that shit like "i can bake a normal map" should be understood as implicit when applying for a game art job.
I also dropped out, but have had a very successful career. Not only have I not been unemployed for more than a few days at a time, but outside of my full time job I also teach game animation at one of the top rated game development courses in the US.
Under education I put: "Art Institute of Dallas - Completed foundation art courses."
But I don't put a date, and I don't put that I didn't graduate. If asked furring and interview I tell them the truth. I enjoyed design and color theory classes, but once the classes got technical, I felt I knew more than the teachers and I was wasting my time and money.
(Just as a side note - just because you feel you know more than the teachers it isn't always true. In my case I was literally giving classes to teachers outside of class time.)
If you have no clue about leadership because you learned art on your own or because you got no clue about leadership because you learned art at university doesn't make a difference
At the lead level experience does count for a lot, but soft skills become more important. You have to be organized and you will run a team, but the real hard planning comes, in a good company, from the producer. You'll be more giving feedback, pushing people's strengths, mentor, resolve conflicts, review assets, help others getting their work done.
I don't think you need a degree for that, just the right attitude and personality. AD level may be different where you have to show a deep and conceptual understanding to be able to envision to direction for a whole game and then follow through on it with everyone else.