How/where to further my knowledge of rigging

STEVONATRON

Like the title suggests, I'm looking for advice on how/where to further my knowledge of rigging (in 3ds Max).

Basically, I feel totally handicapped by lack of information on the subject. I've wasted so much time and money using Digital Tutors only to find their methods are almost always useless (in my humble opinion), and they don't give any feedback in their forums.

I've bought Paul Neale's downloadable tutorials - which in contrast are as good as it gets, but they're really dated and limited (I've only encountered his 3 Ogre rigging tutorials). I've spent some time on TraptCG, though I feel the guy's techniques are a little unorthodox and a bit clunky. Of course there's scraps of information on Youtube, which is often better than most other places, but hard to find.

I bought a [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00AYIKN8M/ref=oh_d__o00_details_o00__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00AYIKN8M/ref=oh_d__o00_details_o00__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"]book[/ame] on Amazon that claims to be a definitive guide to rigging for intermediate-advanced users but from what I've read so far, it looks like it only covers techniques relevant to building his monster and spends time going over other things I don't need to know about such as skinning.

So, what I'd like to know is is there an illusive A-Z guide on rigging to move into advanced territory? Some kind of Rigging Bible of sorts?

Synaesthesia

TBH, you're better off rigging in Maya. It's much less of a pain in the rear, and the software is geared toward it. I've rigged a lot of characters in Max and the process could never be described as enjoyable. If you don't have Maya (or access to it), try following along with the tutorials and apply them to what you're developing.

I'm not sure if you're aware or not (judging by saying that you don't need to know about skinning), but rigging in Max is also called skinning and is the process of binding the skeleton to your mesh so that it will deform. You certainly need to know how to skin a model if you plan to use it for any kind of animation that doesn't involve ripping your hair out.

STEVONATRON

Synaesthesia wrote: »

rigging in Max is also called skinning

Ack, yeah a bit of a mistake on my part there!

I've been rigging (or skinning) for many years now, but I've barely progressed with my knowledge of working with bones, IK chains, expressions, etc.

I used to work with Maya around ten years ago and preferred it to Max, but pursued Max for a particular job I ended off getting in the games industry and stuck with it since. I'm not sure I could bridge between the two programs nowerdays though.

Ark

The Art of Rigging seemed to popular a few years ago: http://www.cgtoolkit.com/book1.htm

Digital Tutors, Gnomon Workshop, Eat3D and 3D Motive all have tutorials on the subject.

CG Academy also have a few DVDs: https://www.cg-academy.net/es_catalog/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=6eoa1h0lfej1l0c2sqhvdatj6nup5v7g

STEVONATRON

Thanks for those links Ark.

I already have the Paul Neale rigging tutorials from cg-Academy and I'm aware of the other sites. I've been subscribed to Digital Tutors for around a year, and to be honest, I found more useful information on Youtube for free.

I'm currently looking at the Autodesk 3ds Max 2013 Bible on Amazon, wondering whether to grab a copy. Though it's always difficult to judge a book by its cover!

Ark

Yeah the Digital Tutors stuff I've always found pretty basic.

The 3ds Max bibles are ok, id consider them more for reference than tutorial though.

Paul Neale is doing some Masterclasses over at CGTalk: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=1115204

Vailias

The Art of Rigging has gotten very good recomendations: http://www.cgtoolkit.com/book1.htm

Also Rigging and Skinning are 2 separate things regardless of DCC App.
Skinning is binding the mesh data to the skeletal structure via whatever weighting process your app uses. Rigging is the creation of a control structure for the underlying skeletal structure your mesh is Skinned to.

This book is also good, but dear lord the price has gone up [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Inspired-3D-Advanced-Rigging-Deformations/dp/1592001165/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373578057&sr=8-1&keywords=advanced+rigging+and+deformations"]Amazon.com: Inspired 3D Advanced Rigging and Deformations (0082039501161): Brad Clark, John Hood, Joe Harkins: Books[/ame]

edit:
I almost forgot: Tech-artists.org Rigging forum

Lamoot

I learned rigging from the now discontinued The Mancandy FAQ DVD from the Blender store. It was released under Creative Common so can be freely downloaded if you find it on the internetz.

I see they now have a new training DVD, Humane Rigging, in the store, which I'm considering to buy.
http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info_n.php?products_id=146

There is also a rigging DVD from CGmasters, again for Blender.
http://www.cgmasters.net/training-dvds/character-creation-rigging/

STEVONATRON

Vailias wrote: »

Also Rigging and Skinning are 2 separate things regardless of DCC App.

Yes, this was my understand too. Which is why I made the initial point that I want to know about rigging bones and not skinning (which I know enough about already). I admit I was intimidated by Synaesthesia's Leonard Nimoy avatar and caved in without a fight!

Some brilliant links here guys, thanks a lot for pointing in the right direction. I'm particularly interested in Vailias's suggestion of Inspired 3D Advanced Rigging and Deformations. I don't understand how this didn't show up in my Amazon search when I've been looking.

I've also book-marked Tech-artists.org - looks a great place to learn more about rigging.

Dylan Brady

http://www.gc-academy.net
Can't say I have experience with this group but the rigging class is taught by rich damiant soo...
I'm also looking for more info on rigging. Specifically the setting up of control rigs. Also I'm not sure you should dismiss max so quickly. It has features like skin wrap

STEVONATRON

Thanks for the link Dylan