How to get normal map results like in handplane, without handplane?

Ravenok

Hey all,

I've been using Handplane these past few days, and results are coming out nicer and cleaner, but I have to wonder - if I didn't have Handplane, how could I get similar results?

I never got too deeply into the technical stuff, I would usually just bake out of xnormal and accept whatever I got. How do you make sure to get clean results without the aid of handplane? it must be possible, since people got by before handplane, but it's beyond my range of knowledge at the moment.

Handplane is great, and I will probably not stop using it, but I do want to have a deeper understanding to ease my mind about it.

Thanks!

ZacD

this may help

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciXTyOOnBZQ"]Controlling Shading Behavior - YouTube[/ame]

Ravenok

It definitely helps, I've seen it and it explained a lot - what I still don't understand is, for example, if I wanted to export the maps for the last example he gave out of 3dsmax and have it work correctly in Maya - how would I do that without Handplane?

ZacD

A 3ds max normal map wont work 100% correctly in maya ever, but you can add splits and extra edge looks to reduce any artifacts and make it passable. He demos that at the end of the video.

Ravenok

So how would one get a "clean" normal map without handplane to fit into UDK/CE3/other engines? Was it just not possible before? Or am I not understanding something the right way?

ZacD

Some engines are actually synced to the program that they generate the normal maps with, but it wasn't possible to get 100% perfect normal map generated with one tagent to an engine that uses another. But you can get rid a lot of the issues with support edges and hard edges.

Quack!

The answer to creating universal normal maps is to match your high poly 100%. You can't do this for real time. So you have to compromise. Adding bevels and more geometry to your low poly to reduce hard angles will give you the cleanest and most universal result. A normal map baked in Max CAN look *GOOD* in Maya, you just have to be allowed the vert count to accomplish it.

Ravenok

Thanks all for the comments!

So if I understand right, Handplane takes a normal map baked in Max (or another source) and adjusts it so it works as if it was baked in Maya (or any other supported engine), instead, giving you a result that looks good even though you didn't "fix" the mesh by handling it's edges?

Sorry if I sound like a noob, I'm still getting the hang of normal maps on the deep technical side...

ZacD

Ravenok wrote: »

Thanks all for the comments!

So if I understand right, Handplane takes a normal map baked in Max (or another source) and adjusts it so it works as if it was baked in Maya (or any other supported engine), instead, giving you a result that looks good even though you didn't "fix" the mesh by handling it's edges?

Handplane needs an object space normal map to generate normal maps with different tangents, handplane gives you the results of a synced workflow. Those fixes are only needed if it's an unsynced workflow. Though it's always a good idea, and free, to create hard edges on UV seams.

Jeff Parrott

Currently there's use Handplane or ignore the errors/reduce as much as possible. At least that I'm aware of.

EarthQuake

So, why not just use handplane?

Ravenok

Well, so Handplane is quite amazing.

No reason not to use it EarthQuake, I was just wondering what could be done without it to get the same results?

Basically, Handplane allows us to create 100% proper maps for all supported game engines, where before it just wasn't possible at all. That's awesome.

Dylan Brady

Yeah I kind of see Ravenok's point here.
its just a little bit insane that studios have payed millions of dollars for art from the best artists in the world. and then put their shit ingame without a perfectly syched normal map process.

AlecMoody

Ravenok wrote: »

Well, so Handplane is quite amazing.

No reason not to use it EarthQuake, I was just wondering what could be done without it to get the same results?

Basically, Handplane allows us to create 100% proper maps for all supported game engines, where before it just wasn't possible at all. That's awesome.

You should read through the beta thread or the current support thread for examples of what to expect for each output. There are limitations with some engines and shading errors are still possible with unity (in forward rendering mode, deferred looks perfect) and probable with unreal.