Drawing Fundamentals
polycounter lvl 9
I've been using the search function and researching on this magical fundamentals of drawing that I've apparently missed out on.
To clarify further, I've been in art school for a year now and I've completed my foundation year. I can say that in 95% of situations, I can accurately recreate a photograph or what's in front of me with a pencil and a few hours; however, I cannot draw designs in my head. This is a huge issue since I want to become a concept artist.
I've started working on anatomy exercises to understand how to draw the human form from memory, and I stumbled upon a Feng Zhu video titled "Episode 59: Before and After". Feng Zhu shows the work of a few students before they entered his school and after they went through the program (two were actually halfway through). In this video, Feng Zhu describes the two ways to learn drawing: repetitively drawing something 100 or so times until you understand it or understanding the fundamentals. He then goes on to describe how certain individuals can't draw something they are not familiar with and how students trained in the fundamentals are able to draw up things from their mind because they understand the fundamentals. This terrified me because I absolutely cannot draw anything without a reference in front of me, and the way I was planning on learning anatomy was through repetition of drawing the form and memorizing the ideal figure (Loomis's books).
I immediately changed my training to focus on the fundamentals I felt I was lacking, but then my mind began to think, "How can I draw something that I've never seen before." I feel that all the perspective, form, etc knowledge in the world could not help me draw something that I've never seen before, I would basically need to reference it directly or indirectly.
TL;DR Basically, I want to start a dialogue on learning and understanding the fundamentals for more intermediate artists. If one is able to copy a picture 1:1, is that showing an understanding of fundamentals or an ability to see? And secondly, for an intermediate artist, are fundamental issues such as perspective and anatomy the problem between them reaching their goal? And whatever questions we may come across as we continue this discussion.
If you haven't seen the Feng Zhu Video, here is a link (video is 40 mins): [ame="
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rI6q6bv7do"]Episode 59 - Before and After - YouTube[/ame]
*insert plot for increasing the amount of 2D discussion on polycount*
To clarify further, I've been in art school for a year now and I've completed my foundation year. I can say that in 95% of situations, I can accurately recreate a photograph or what's in front of me with a pencil and a few hours; however, I cannot draw designs in my head. This is a huge issue since I want to become a concept artist.
I've started working on anatomy exercises to understand how to draw the human form from memory, and I stumbled upon a Feng Zhu video titled "Episode 59: Before and After". Feng Zhu shows the work of a few students before they entered his school and after they went through the program (two were actually halfway through). In this video, Feng Zhu describes the two ways to learn drawing: repetitively drawing something 100 or so times until you understand it or understanding the fundamentals. He then goes on to describe how certain individuals can't draw something they are not familiar with and how students trained in the fundamentals are able to draw up things from their mind because they understand the fundamentals. This terrified me because I absolutely cannot draw anything without a reference in front of me, and the way I was planning on learning anatomy was through repetition of drawing the form and memorizing the ideal figure (Loomis's books).
I immediately changed my training to focus on the fundamentals I felt I was lacking, but then my mind began to think, "How can I draw something that I've never seen before." I feel that all the perspective, form, etc knowledge in the world could not help me draw something that I've never seen before, I would basically need to reference it directly or indirectly.
TL;DR Basically, I want to start a dialogue on learning and understanding the fundamentals for more intermediate artists. If one is able to copy a picture 1:1, is that showing an understanding of fundamentals or an ability to see? And secondly, for an intermediate artist, are fundamental issues such as perspective and anatomy the problem between them reaching their goal? And whatever questions we may come across as we continue this discussion.
If you haven't seen the Feng Zhu Video, here is a link (video is 40 mins): [ame="
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rI6q6bv7do"]Episode 59 - Before and After - YouTube[/ame]*insert plot for increasing the amount of 2D discussion on polycount*
Replies
1. I am in an art school and am learning by myself here.
2. I am a total beginner as in a total n00b
While I am learning the fundamentals at my own pace, my focus recently has shifted from just learning and drawing to developing my visual library and problem solving.
I always was into reading books(any and everything) so that really helped but problem solving in an idustrial design sense is something that really pushes you.
Have you checked this one out
[ame="
Being able to copy a photograph is a useful skill but it's almost purely observational and what you need is knowledge and understanding of form. Studying art can be really tricky sometimes because you need to observe to study but you want to avoid copying. You want to observe in order to understand not in order to copy.
The heart of this is the never ending process of improvement. It is necessary and good. If this is a bad habit, know that you'll never reach perfection, so now is a good time to start small and begin appreciating your own progress. Maybe save a snapshot every hour and keep it around, then review in a weeks time after you've made many revisions on it?
Look at his old Portfolio Prep videos. See the bugs and things in perspective? Rather than copying a reference image, it's learning the actual construction. Basically trying to train your brain to operate the same way a 3D renderer does.
[ame="
I haven't seen your work, but if you are struggling to envision shapes and invent things, then i am certain your perspective isn't the best.
A few people mentioned this but i want to hammer it home as the most important thing that you will learn in your 2d career.
Can you draw 1,2 and three point? what about curvilinear? Do you understand field of view and how a camera lens changes fov?
Can you draw organic shapes in perspective and have them look correct?
Perspective is an illusion that we have to draw, and without it our drawings look wrong. It's literally the foundation which we build worlds out of.
Scott robertson sketch:
If you answered no to any of that you still have more you can learn, and i say learn it before you go back to anatomy and creating from imagination. (though you can still practice those while practicing perspective.)
I highly reccomend scotts video series at gnomon. It will blow your mind
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/323/Basic-Perspective-Form-Drawing
School may have been the problem. I focus much more on just getting the work done to get an acceptable grade, rather than focus on learning. Actually, it's mostly because I'm past the "learning" courses. In my Painting I class, I had more opportunities to experiment and learn, than in my Drawing II class, where I was expected to execute projects perfectly and prove I can draw at a competitive level.
On the topic of learning how I work, I find that I learn from critique. My largest improvements are from doing a piece, receiving feedback, and then not making the same mistakes I made on the previous piece. For some reason, I cannot do that on my own, and I was going to spend the summer trying out a study flow that my professor suggested.
@Nitewalkr
I think this mostly stems from you comparing yourself to professionals. Being an intermediate artist is really difficult because you're better than the average individual. Non-artists look at your work and shower you with praise, but you and other professionals know you are far from being on a professional level.
@Baron Flame
Yes, I have seen the the Visual Library episode. Ironically, I was one of those kids who played with toys and read a ton of fantasy books, but then I had to focus on gen ed subjects due to my parents. Nowadays, I tend to just observe the world around me to improve my visual library.
The way my art school is structured also helps with the critical thinking and creative side of art creation. We are asked to come up with a conceptual idea, and then choose a medium which would strengthen the overall conceptual thought. From there, every element in the piece must strengthen the initial conceptual thought and you must be able to defend your judgement in critique (which are brutal). Once you are past the X I and X II stage, your thoughts become more important than the actual outcome.
Btw, could you go into further clarification on your workflows?
@AtticusMars
I completely understand. I always assume that by doing it, I will learn. In fact, I don't think I actually learned anything by working on it by myself. Most of the times my thoughts direct back to critiques and the lectures from my professors. I was doing a portrait today from observation, and I supplemented the visual with my knowledge of the facial forms. I noticed I was looking for the placement of certain things to get the proportions right. I'm going to think a little more about how I work over the next few months.
@xrg
Ah, yes so my time I will spend studying Loomis will not go to waste! I'll take a look at the portfolio video, I'm sure that will help me and others with our studies! Thanks!
@Muzz
THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, I WRITE UP A POST AND GET A RESPONSE!
Jokes aside, I could send you some of my work in a PM to keep this thread on track. My work is decent, but I am unable to create objects from memory. Checking out your perspective check, I can do one or two of those, so maybe I should put anatomy on the back-burner and focus on perspective. I'm taking figure painting in the fall anyways.
Go back and fix everything on the list, and don't go looking for help until you literally have no idea how to make it better.
EDIT: sure pm me some work
Ahahahahahahaa.......and aint it sad.
I am trying to force myself to keep working on the same piece and not delete it unless it is absolutely necessary. Spend time on the concept instead of rushing it.
And trying to follow the core steps of the fundamentals:
Pose -> Design -> Refine -> Color
This is something else I've learned studying fine art. I would always keep my ideas inside of my head for later on when I felt I was good enough to execute them. A professor told me, "If you don't release the ideas you have now, how can you get new ones? Worse case scenario, later on you can redo them and see the progress you made."
You have to be ok with failing at first, and like muzz is saying, list all the things you really aren't happy with.
You will have some victories every time you go at it though, and they add up over time until you win the war so to speak.
Practice practice practice.
For example if I am thinking about a scene of a fortified city's exterior. There are a couple of things I'd start with.
I'd think of it in such a way that it is based on an elevated platform. Why?
1. Strategically placed - An elevated city and in turn it's walls and towers would have a better view of the surroundings.
2. In case of excessive rains, it'd would be easier to direct the water down.
3. Harder for war machines like catapults to aim for inside the city.
The ramp to the gate will be narrower than usual and a bit curved.
Why?
1. Less space for battle ready beats such as elephants to maneuver. The same applies to battering rams.
2. Controls the flow of citizens, troops.
If I am thinking of it's defenses, then What would work?
1. Spikes on the main gate to deter war beasts if any.
2. A network of furrows on the ram to pour oil through to make it slippery and make it harder for the troops to walk up it or to light it just in case.
How would the citizen get out in case the city is besieged? Which troops would be placed where? Questions like those. Think of things even if you won't be designing them. It challenges you on an intellectual level and if your fundamentals are strong enough, you should be able to draw them with ease. Now I know that it is impossible to figure everything out or some times if you are making something sci-fi or fantasy based you can't do that but in that case you just have to make it look like it does work.
Sound logic or the appearance of it being there helps a lot. Logical reasoning along with a well built visual library comes into play when you thinking of something that isn't there, otherwise an extensive visual library should be more than enough.
Well something like that and now that I think about it, I do seem hypocritical here since I am only a beginner and am probably not half as good as you are when it comes to sketching.
-_-
Nyhooo hope this helps.
Yes, you are correct. The number one way to improve is by doing; however, doing with direction will help you improve even faster. Get those 10,000 hours down!
@Baron Flame
Ah, I've been starting to do things like that with a few characters I was planning on sketching out this summer for a friend's game that they will start this Fall. It helps a ton and I hope anyone who stumbles upon this thread will find all of this information useful.
The portfolio prep video is definitely helpful (it is linked above). Feng Zhu goes into several techniques, but he says they are to prepare for a design school. After watching the video, I was able to envision a method on how that can take someone from 0 to 50 pretty quickly, and further practice can push them from 50-100.
Enough chit chat for today, I have to start drawing in a few.
posted this in the awesomeness thread. Thought it would help here as well.
[ame="
In concept art It's what you draw not how you draw it that matters, it's all about the DESIGN of a said object, not how beautifully its rendered etc. Imagination and a huge visual library are massively important, this cannot be overlooked, we are paid for our unique visual ideas, not how well we can paint an apple.
That being said, you need the fundamentals to be able to convey whats in your head, fundamentals are things like composition, perspective, value, colour theory, anatomy etc. The building blocks of what makes an image. I find I rely on perspective, value and anatomy the most (a good design will be awesome in black and white, color only adds or subtracts) make sure you practise the shit out of these on a regular basis.
Ah, this is valuable information for anyone. Thanks for posting this!
Ironically, I think I'm one of the few youngins who wants to be a concept artist because I want to have more power over what personal choices I can put into the piece. I want as much creative freedom to work with (within reason of course).
@stinger88
I enjoyed the video, it certainly added insight into learning and how to learn. Unfortunately, I am way past 20 hours when it comes to traditional art. XD Nevertheless, I recommend anyone who hasn't seen the video to watch it, it applies to things more than art.
(image from newly released sketchbook 3)