Judging ability, Self Promotion, and Being Humble
interpolator
I saw that thread where a 'game design graduate' created an 18 hour tutorial about how to make a substandard trashcan, and after I was done chuckling at Choldens post, I started thinking more about it.
First:
How do you learn to judge your skillset correctly? Is it just a skill you learn as you grow, is it required to grow?
I remember starting out I used to love each piece I did as I did them, and couldn't see the problems. Then 24 hours later, I would return and think, Oh God... how could I have created this? What is it about the process that can give two opposite reactions to something like that.
Now that I am better than I was then, I can't help but hate everything I do, as I do it, and also when I return to it. It doesn't feel great, but it helps me pick out the errors better during the creation process.
I also wonder how this links to self promotion. How can you honestly promote yourself if you are aware of how bad or at least how behind you are as a artist?
Second:
I'm asking because I have a very specific question in mind. Recently I did a piece that went to the front of reddit. It got 1,000,000 views in a day, and I got flooded by requests for stuff - tutorials, freelance, advice, and...
embedded in those requests were a couple of people who wanted to do interviews with me, about how I could create something like that. There were three, all three of them sources you've almost certainly heard of.
Thing was, none of them were industry focused sources. Technology, yes, but not to the point where they would know that the piece I'd done was... you know, fairly low on the 'decent' chain, especially compared to some of the work that shows up on a daily basis here, and on other forums.
What do you do in that situation. To one of them, the biggest one, I explained that my work wasn't special, and linked to some of my favorite artists that do phenomenal stuff, and told them that these guys (and a girl) would make much better subjects on the topic.
The other two I haven't decided yet. When you know you perhaps don't deserve it, but doing it would help move you ahead, do you go for it, or do you pull back a bit?
First:
How do you learn to judge your skillset correctly? Is it just a skill you learn as you grow, is it required to grow?
I remember starting out I used to love each piece I did as I did them, and couldn't see the problems. Then 24 hours later, I would return and think, Oh God... how could I have created this? What is it about the process that can give two opposite reactions to something like that.
Now that I am better than I was then, I can't help but hate everything I do, as I do it, and also when I return to it. It doesn't feel great, but it helps me pick out the errors better during the creation process.
I also wonder how this links to self promotion. How can you honestly promote yourself if you are aware of how bad or at least how behind you are as a artist?
Second:
I'm asking because I have a very specific question in mind. Recently I did a piece that went to the front of reddit. It got 1,000,000 views in a day, and I got flooded by requests for stuff - tutorials, freelance, advice, and...
embedded in those requests were a couple of people who wanted to do interviews with me, about how I could create something like that. There were three, all three of them sources you've almost certainly heard of.
Thing was, none of them were industry focused sources. Technology, yes, but not to the point where they would know that the piece I'd done was... you know, fairly low on the 'decent' chain, especially compared to some of the work that shows up on a daily basis here, and on other forums.
What do you do in that situation. To one of them, the biggest one, I explained that my work wasn't special, and linked to some of my favorite artists that do phenomenal stuff, and told them that these guys (and a girl) would make much better subjects on the topic.
The other two I haven't decided yet. When you know you perhaps don't deserve it, but doing it would help move you ahead, do you go for it, or do you pull back a bit?
Replies
I know I would read it
Complacency is very dangerous, if you find you dislike your work then you are proving that you see the issues and in time will develop the skills to rectify them. The learning will never go away, last year I felt like I started over and that my anatomy and cloth knowledge was god awful, now every piece I'm learning from and made a point of sucking out as much knowledge as I can. I think everyone starts off enjoying it but then like anything you intend to master, you start seeing the cracks in your knowledge and on the road to perfecting your trade you have to start filling these and being even more scrupulous with your work. Learning to crit your own work and even foreseeing issues will all come in time. There's no such thing as a perfect piece!!
First:
I judge my own work, try to get a handle on how good it is, but sometimes I'll do something I love, and it gets no response. If I had the freedom to please myself and no one else, then I wouldn't care and I'd just continue doing my own thing. But the definition of an artist working in entertainment is that you're there to please someone.
So. The only option for me is to get gutchecked by someone who I know will give me an accurate crit of my work. Other people's reactions to my work are currently my only accurate barometer.
I can honestly promote myself when multiple people have reacted positively to my work. It's almost like I have to say "I hate my work, but these people kinda like it, so I guess I'll trust them".
Second:
As a fellow reddit front-pager, I can sympathize. My advice goes back to my answer above: Other people like your work. Well over a million people (including me) likely enjoyed that piece. There will always be better people out there, but you specifically created something in your own personal way that no one else has. You deserve any recognition that comes your way.
Don't lose your personal criticism, it's what will keep you learning. But trust in other people's opinions, they'll keep you balanced.
This is an interesting phenomenon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imposter_syndrome
From an outsider's POV, though, they go cray and think you're amazing.
I just judge myself based on the top-of-the-line pros that are out there and see I am not there, so I keep trying and learning as much as I can.
The past few months I have been able to see why others say my work is decent and even at times look at it and be happy. The key here is though it to always still see what you could do to improve it/ see the flaws. Its hard but I think its ok to enjoy something you made as long as you can see where it could be better.
However getting to this point takes a certain mindset I think. I know for a fact there is tons of great artists who hate all of their work and some who enjoy it but can see the flaws still. Neither one is wrong, just comes down to each person I think. Personally for me, once I started not being so hard on myself and just looking at my work objectively and seeing where it could be better, I have been enjoying it a bit more and been in a better mood.
One other thing I feel is a bit related. When putting out art, how you talk about I think can affect peoples opinions of you. For a really long time, when I would post my work on twitter I would constantly be negative about it and I think others picked up on that. You need to be able to show come confidence when putting out work. You don't need to go saying is the best thing ever, but have some pride in your work.
I think what happens is that each little technical difficulty you overcome during a project is small endorphin boost, and that over time you start to associate the project with feeling good, even if the end result is kinda crappy. The perfectly valid positive reinforcement of problem solving ends up blinding you to the piece as a whole.
The scary thing, for me at least, is wondering and trying to figure out when I will be ready to try to enter the industry, because it seems like it would take a lot of self-awareness, art-wise, to know when you are ready, and I feel like I'll never have that self-awareness to say, I am ready, or really just NOT be thinking, I am not ready.
I see people on these forums all the time asking for portfolio advice, and all I can think of is, "You need another couple years of hard work before you even think about assembling a portfolio", and then I think, "maybe that's me too."
Truth is, you will most likely never be satisfied with any art that you create. The main reason why is because your eyes(ability to determine flaws) will always be greater than your skills. Every now and than your skills will be greater than your eyes, but very quickly your eyes improve faster.
Inversely, for some people, their skills will always be greater than their eyes; these are usually the people that are full of themselves and don't give good critiques.
Eyes vs. Skill is a constant uphill battle, but its a good one.
You've got good work and should def do those interviews. Its a good thing to find those flaws in your own work, but don't forget to be confident as well
On a side note: Here is a video that talks about eyes vs. skills if anyone is interested in understanding more.
[ame="
It almost made me want to give up doing characters altogether. I found the only way to get over this was to research the subject thoroughly and practice the hell out of it.
I have been doing this for about a month now and have made big strides I feel. bloody sick of cloth though, pain in the arse all round
TBH I had the same problems with heads for a while , but I am happier with my stuff now. It's an ongoing battle unless you are one of those lucky types who seems to pick everything up really quick.
I often hate my work even now , so even if 90 percent of a character looks ok I hate that 10 percent with a passion and in my mind that 10 percent is the hardest to improve.
I am starting to think that I enjoying working out how to do stuff rather than actually doing it.
Anyway just keep doing what you are doing because you will get where you want if you keep practising and learning.
what you should not do is get 'too' bogged down in one area, take an overall view and take breaks - come back with a fresh eye.
"If people knew how hard I have worked to achieve my mastery, it would not appear wonderful at all."
"Lord, grant that I may always desire more than I can accomplish."
- Michelangelo Buonarroti
I like these quotes for many reasons. I bring them up because it shows that even Michelangelo, the master sculptor that he was, also struggled with self-doubt. But they show a slightly different perspective on the topic. Michelangelo recognized that it was exactly this self-critical attitude that motivated his pursuit of perfection, and he embraced it.
Take my words with a grain of salt, I'm not as experienced as a lot of the other artists on this board. But, you've no doubt worked very hard to get where you are, and that's what matters. Now go do those interviews, and get that glory. You deserve it.
In the worst case you may not teach anyone but yourself - trying to teach others and present knowledge is a very good method of learning things and remembering them.
Another interesting thing is that for being a good teacher you don't necessarily have to be the greatest artist. But you have to be good at teaching what makes a great artist! Just because your tutorial's art isn't great doesn't mean the techniques you're showing are rubbish. Although it helps when you can illustrate your point with great artwork.
(*) Regarding the trashcan tutorial - that's why I prefer text. I find it easier to skim through than skipping through a video. 18 hours is extreme. But maybe the author learned something
Well the thing is making portfolio art and being a game developer are different things, I didn't fully realize this until I started working on a full project outside of freelancing and basic "just art" stuff, even with a heavy modding background it was only then I truly grasped the difference.
There's alot of things you only grasp on the job, things outside of artistic skill and technical know how. The majority of which is down to personal growth. I've known some great artists who struggled as dev's and some newb artists who have grown into AAA dev's and through that become AAA artists.
You won't truly know if you will be ready until you actually do it, so why wait? Good art is a jumping off point. While its hard to distinguish your personal skill level, its not you who will ultimately decide if your art is good enough, it's the person hiring.
I think all of us artists will always feel mediocre, I know I do, extremely lol. And that only makes me want to improve more.
Never pass up an opportunity, never worry, all that can go wrong is you fail and failing is never bad, that's how we grow. And we can't grow if we never fail. :thumbup:
^^ All of this is just my stupid ass brain fart personal opinion on stuff and I am a mediocre artist
I think this is a good quote for you ysalex with regards to all your doubts about entering "the industry".
You are good enough to be a professional and in fact there's jobs and room out there for artists of many skill levels.